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rats_and_cats
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07 May 2017, 1:12 am

My thoughts exactly. My stories have actually gotten LESS diverse after going to college because people started telling me I can't write black characters because I'm white and I can't possibly understand the "black experience." Um... aren't we all HUMAN? Also, this is a fantasy story that does not take place in real-life society! Racism doesn't exist in this world! Now every time I create a character there's a voice in my head saying "I can't write this or that character because I'm not this or that." So all my characters end up being cis, straight, and white.



ThisAdamGuy
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07 May 2017, 1:21 am

rats_and_cats wrote:
this is a fantasy story that does not take place in real-life society!


Exactly. That's another thing that bugs me. Why are people looking for racial/gender/sexual representation in fantasy books? I have a black guy in The Slayer and the Sphinx... he's also ten feet tall and can summon medieval weapons out of thin air. Do they really think he's going to be a good representation of a normal black guy's struggles or whatever?


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rats_and_cats
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07 May 2017, 1:24 am

ThisAdamGuy wrote:
rats_and_cats wrote:
this is a fantasy story that does not take place in real-life society!


Exactly. That's another thing that bugs me. Why are people looking for racial/gender/sexual representation in fantasy books? I have a black guy in The Slayer and the Sphinx... he's also ten feet tall and can summon medieval weapons out of thin air. Do they really think he's going to be a good representation of a normal black guy's struggles or whatever?


Yeah, I could see wanting representation because we like seeing people who look like us, but do they really have to be that painfully realistic?



ThisAdamGuy
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07 May 2017, 1:33 am

When it comes to fantasy, representation should be a nonfactor. You read fantasy for entertainment. I mean, would I like yo see more books with aspie/autistic main characters? You bet! Especially ones where they aren't sensationalized like modern tv likes to do. But you know how many times I've put down and boom and said, "I just can't enjoy this if the main character doesn't have aspergers."? I'll give you a hint: it's one more than -1.


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ikorack
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22 May 2017, 2:34 pm

Have you considered switching to royal road?



ThisAdamGuy
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22 May 2017, 2:45 pm

ikorack wrote:
Have you considered switching to royal road?


I used that for a while, but their word processor was so crappy that I gave up. I would copy and paste my story into it, and then it would automatically change it to be, like, 72 point font, and then wouldn't let me change it back. It tried to merge all my paragraphs into one big paragraph too, and then wouldn't let me separate them.


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ltcvnzl
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28 May 2017, 11:22 pm

I just read a facebook post of a guy telling that he dreamed with the "best" medieval themed movie ever, and he said that the main characters were from an european royal family and black, and gay.

it sounded too forced to fit into a social justice theme i couldn't help but remember this thread



Chronos
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28 May 2017, 11:52 pm

ThisAdamGuy wrote:
You know, if there's one thing that's eventually going to drive me off WattPad (the site where my books have the biggest audience) it's going to be the army of people who go around demanding that authors change their stories to include more [insert their minority of choice here]. They say that fantasy is stuck in a rut because the characters aren't diverse enough, and they're not being adequately represented. They'll even go so far as to claim that a story's quality will go down if the main character is a straight white male. If you were to read my books, you'd see that I include several black characters, two Japanese characters, and an Arabian character. That doesn't even include the nonhuman characters, like sphinxes, elves, gorgons, werewolves, kitsunes, and much more-- which are usually the focal point of the story anyway. And yet, somehow, I've still been accused of writing "Racist white-@$$ fantasy tripe" because all of the MAIN characters (that are human, anyway) have white skin. It's no use trying to talk to these people, because they're so high on their horses that the words of mere mortals like me don't even reach their ears.

So, what do you guys think of the whole thing?

See, my problem isn't with including diverse casts of characters. The issue is, I don't want to do it just for the sake of diversity. My main priority is to tell a good story, and most of the time that can be accomplished without "diversifying" your characters. Would it hurt the story if the MC were to be black instead of white? No, but likewise it doesn't hurt for him to be white instead of black. People whine that they can't identify with a character that doesn't have the same skin color, or gender, or sexuality they do. Sorry to say, but that's BS. My favorite books of all time, Mistborn, have a woman as the MC, but I'm still able to identify with her. These complaints have no more credibility than the people who claim they can't enjoy The Legend of Zelda unless they're given the option to play as female Link.


When you start adding in "diverse" characters just for the sake of diversity, more often than not you end up with token characters. You know, the ones who exist just to tick off a box on your "diversity" checklist. Ironically, those same people will whine about those too. The difference between having token characters and not having token characters is that having token characters actually can lower the quality of your book. Given the choice, I'd prefer to leave them out entirely and still tell a well written, entertaining story.

Lastly, these people don't just want you to include their minority of choice in your book, they want you to push their political agenda with it. It isn't enough for them to be in the book, the book now has to be about them too. So in essence, you could potentially be giving up your plot for your book to write a feel good story for these minorities who want to be represented but are too lazy to write it themselves. And that, more than anything else, is what riles me up. My books are mine. Not yours, not theirs, mine. I write books that I would like to read, and I'm not going to give that up because some random person I've never met throws a fit because my romantic leads are a guy and a girl, and not a guy and a guy.

Now, I'm not against diverse casts. It's just that I don't think the quality of a book is dictated by it. I can't remember who said it, but an author was quoted saying "If you tell me there's a shotgun above the mantle, it had better go off before the book ends." I look at "diversity" the same way. If you make a big deal about how your character is different and special, that had better effect the plot somehow. Otherwise, what's the point?

And no, I don't think I'm biased. If I wanted, I would have just as much a case as any of these "minorities" to whine about the lack of autistic characters in my favorite books. I just don't. Why? Because the stories are amazing with or without them.

I've rambled long enough, I feel like. I guess I just needed to get that off my chest somewhere (hopefully) people won't immediately start pointing fingers and calling names. What do you guys think of the subject?


Every story has it's critics. If I don't like a book, I stop reading it and I go find another book. While I would hope the author would take into consideration and constructive criticism I offer, I would not demand anything of the author as it's not my story.



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29 May 2017, 2:43 pm

ltcvnzl wrote:
I just read a facebook post of a guy telling that he dreamed with the "best" medieval themed movie ever, and he said that the main characters were from an european royal family and black, and gay.

it sounded too forced to fit into a social justice theme i couldn't help but remember this thread


I would love to read that book.


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