you can be trans, but there are 2 genders

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XFilesGeek
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07 May 2017, 9:58 am

I identify as "agendered."

I am not "screwed-up." :roll:


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07 May 2017, 11:47 pm

There's aren't two genders in nature because there aren't any genders in nature. There are two gender roles in society and people fail to fit into them to varying degrees. This is the cause of much unhappiness and I prefer not to identify with it. I feel much better since I stopped trying to locate a 'gender identity' that doesn't exist and came to the conclusion that gender is all about social control. It's a (relatively recently developed) ideology.

There's a reason why gender was a term only used in linguistics until recently - the current concept of gender was developed as a reactionary response to the sexual revolution and the feminist movements in the late 20th century. It was developed by the psychiatric profession in collusion with academics in the humanities (mainly cultural studies) who got scared of a bit too much freedom and overdosed on postmodernism. The academics and scientists who challenged it have been either sidelined or vilified in a way that is suggestive of shutting down debate and restricting freedom of thought and freedom of speech.

Gender as a meme has spread to the media, the wider health profession, government and the general public. It supports various agendas that I dislike. The way the Islamic Republic of Iran has used the concept to bolster its oppression of homosexuals should concern people (it's a case of transition or get hanged from a crane over there). I couldn't be more in favour of people doing what they want with their bodies and their modes of self-expression but I reject gender identity as a junk idea.

There have always been people who feel the need to alter their body to look more like the opposite sex and people who want to (for whatever reason) express themselves in the gender role that the opposite sex has forced on them. Both of these are fine and I wouldn't want to stop anyone acting in this way. Then there are the majority of people who don't fit into either gender role perfectly because gender roles are crap.I include myself among this group, but I don't identify as nonbinary because it's a meaningless term if everyone is. I have a better idea of what Pokemon I am than what gender I am. I know I'm female.

There are two sexes. There are some intersex individuals who can't be clearly identified on the sex binary.


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08 May 2017, 12:20 am

that is not true though, people are born without a speciic gender and either have one assigned or they naturally develop into a person who has male and female features. Some assigned genders go wrong when the person develops more like the other gender like maybe they assign them female and in adolescence they start growing facial hair. Or maybe they assign them male and they start growing boobs. These things happen.


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12 May 2017, 9:15 am

Biology is pretty diverse and people occur on a spectrum that can include traits we currently categorize as male and female. Read about people with intersex traits if you want to see how diverse human biology can be.

Gender is culturally-based, likely processed in the brain and possibly also connected in some way to hormones. Across history and various cultures you can find anywhere from one to six genders. Gender can be composed of: genitals, gonads, secondary sex characteristics, hormones, clothing styles, personal preference, emotions, sense of identity. For most people, those don't all fit neatly into a "man" or "woman" bucket. And for some people they really don't fit at all.

If you're having trouble categorizing people who identify as nonbinary or agender and so on, I'd invite you to look at some of the categorization schemes involving three to six genders and see if there's one that feels comfortable for you. In particular, many Native American cultures had a third gender (or more) and Jewish law has six genders: http://www.sojourngsd.org/blog/sixgenders


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26 May 2017, 7:25 pm

Every single idea "you" have of who you are and every single action you take is all rooted in an amazing galaxy of neurons that really is individual for every person. Humans are all uniquely developed through nature and nurture. However, those on the autism spectrum "think" differently in the same ways as other subsets of the spectrum, though not always in the same ways as other subsets which sometimes can lead to disagreements and such. The way the brains are wired are just a bit different in autistics, and if one gives credence to ethylmercury crossing the blood brain barrier and decreasing glutathione and increasing male androgens, one would realize that many of those on the spectrum have hormones that are so out of whack from the middle of the bell curve that it's valid they believe "they", the firing neurons and the personality built over time because of them, are in the "wrong" body compared to what is commonly desired from and found somehow inherently in "their" physical sex that they're supposed to belong to just because that's the way the body developed. Someday we won't have to worry about these physical bodies anymore, til then we need to keep loving one another, that's my bottom line.



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26 May 2017, 9:34 pm

I believe gender is neither a linear spectrum nor a binary. If anything, it's a state of mind.


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26 May 2017, 10:36 pm

Have you never heard of a hermaphrodite? gender is actually a spectrum you can be male, female or somewhere in between. Also in fetal development the brain and body don't always develop the same...so you can certainly get a male in a female body or vice versa which is essentially what transsexualism is because as a result the person can feel very uncomfortable in their body.

It's not being a SJW to be aware of these things...also isn't it more SJW like to tell people they can't be transsexual and that they shouldn't get a sex change because you don't approve than to live and let live?


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30 May 2017, 8:48 pm

There's so much gray area here. Like everything else lol. I do believe gender is a spectrum, however its worth noting that the vast majority of people in our society feel like they fit into one of the two genders just fine... so I'm also ok with saying, for the most part, that there are two genders.
My opinion gets even more complicated though, lol, because I can't stand how some people these days are literally making up their own words for themselves and changing it every week and getting angry when people find that strange.
I also think that there is so much more to a person than gender, so people who constantly go on and on about it are basing too much of who they are on their gender and that's not healthy.
Phew.


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31 May 2017, 10:57 pm

Double post.



Last edited by Outrider on 31 May 2017, 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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31 May 2017, 11:13 pm

NeilM wrote:
So obviously you consider the only difference between men and women is their genitalia? Their plumbing if you will?

If you read the book Brain Sex by Anne Moir and David Jessel (available at Amazon), they explain how ones brain is influenced by the levels of hormones available during fetal development such that most people mature with brains that agree with their genitalia. However, a small percentage but still a significant number of individuals find themselves with brains (mental outlook, personalities, gender identification, or whatever) that do not agree with their genitals. I use the phrase "do not agree" because their brain may be fairly close to what the genitalia indicate, it may be farther away, or it may be totally to the other end of the continuum, depending on the level of hormones (mostly testosterone) present during their fetal development. And btw, brain development and genital development happen at different times while the fetus is in the womb so varying levels of hormones is to be expected.

Hopefully this sheds some new light on this lack of understanding.


I still feel there's only two genders in the brain as well.

Sure, a person develops a male brain and a female body, or vice-versa.

Some individuals who identify as Pangender, or Agender (neither gender), Trigender (three genders), or Genderfluid (switch between genders)

I agree with what you're saying with regards to Binary transgender people (male to female or female to male) but it doesn't explain non-binary people who identify as no or multiple genders at a time.

Most Transgender people need to seek therapy.

This doesn't mean it is wrong or bad or a problem.

Gender Dysphoria is a legitimate mental health problem, just like Aspergers, Depression or Anxiety, and should be treated with therapy.

The point of therapy is to encourage a transgender person to be comfortable with the sex they are at first.

If this doesn't happen, then the therapy will try to help the transgender person deal with their gender dysphoria in healthy ways instead of self-harm or destructive behaviors, and encourage the transgender person to begin transition to the opposite sex.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Have you never heard of a hermaphrodite? gender is actually a spectrum you can be male, female or somewhere in between. Also in fetal development the brain and body don't always develop the same...so you can certainly get a male in a female body or vice versa which is essentially what transsexualism is because as a result the person can feel very uncomfortable in their body.

It's not being a SJW to be aware of these things...also isn't it more SJW like to tell people they can't be transsexual and that they shouldn't get a sex change because you don't approve than to live and let live?


Hermaphrodites, aka men or women with a functional penis and vagina, capable of reproduction with themselves, don't exist in humans.

Intersex individuals exist, but are typically a biological man or woman with a physical medical condition due to hormonal imbalances or incorrect chromosomes and have nothing to do with transgenderism.

A tiny number of Intersex people have been found to have both a functional penis and vagina, but were still infertile.

Also, just because the brain and body develop differently, doesn't necessarily mean there still isn't two genders.

I do believe that:

Gender = brain, mental
Sex = your body

But, I still believe there's only two genders.

Two genders and Two sexes.

So a Transgender person is when their gender is male, and their body is female, or their gender is female, and their body is male.

But I'm not sure I believe genderqueer people exist.

Or if they do, I haven't met any that have explained clearly enough what it actually is.

Everyone here is using binary transgender people (male-to-female or female-to-male) to try to prove to OP that non-binary exists.

Someone here please explain to me what Non-binary is, using scientific evidence that non-binary genders are found in the brain.

Everyone talking about the brain and body developing at different times due to hormone exposure are talking about binary Trans people.



Last edited by Outrider on 31 May 2017, 11:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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31 May 2017, 11:20 pm

This one at least has a reasonably clear title. It indicates that the OP has an opinion that he believes is fact, and that he intends to tell other people what to do and think. Let me know how that works out.


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31 May 2017, 11:26 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
This one at least has a reasonably clear title. It indicates that the OP has an opinion that he believes is fact, and that he intends to tell other people what to do and think. Let me know how that works out.


He is venting and expressing his irritation with the behaviour of others, much like everyone does sometimes.

Also, he's 16.

Many young people have liberal and progressive beliefs in politics, culture, etc. and will talk about these beliefs of theirs all the time because they tend to be very opinionated.

So of course a young fella like him and I are going to get caught in the middle of all this.

Most middle-aged adults are just like 'You're gay? Alright, I don't care."

Young people are the ones constantly starting debates on the topics of politics, Feminism, LGBT activism, etc.

But I'm just telling you what I think you'd already know (not sarcasm).

I do agree he could have approached this with a better and more respectful and fair attitude.

I think OP is annoyed with how other people his age have treated him whenever he tries to join the debate.

He and I have the unpopular opinion here, even on Wrongplanet.

I have a lot of unpopular opinions politically and socially and no matter how civilly and politely I present them, people my age tend to shoot me down and behave a lot like the young people in this video are towards the Professor:



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01 Jun 2017, 6:07 am

The way I see this, as someone who has screwy issues of my own, is very, very simple:

My "gender" is whatever in the bloody hell I decide it to be. I dont get to decide how I'm wired, like with autism. But I can decide how it's expressed. I often just say "androgynous" because screw it, it seems right really. So, I'll do that. Me being the way that I am, anyone dumb enough to get in my way is gonna have a bad time.

The problem though comes from the fact that many arent in the sort of position that I'm in. Some have situations that may put them in outright danger, even. Or all sorts of reasons. And a simple lack of even basic understanding of this whole thing can WRECK them. There's a reason why some people commit suicide over this one. I mean, think about that: freaking SUICIDE. That is how deep this sort of thing goes.

And those that do that? Those that end up dead because of this? The ONE thing that would have saved them is something so bloody simple to give: Simple... freaking... understanding. Specifically, understanding that people are different, and some have very different needs, which need to be respected. Frankly, autistics in particular (regardless of which form of it you have) should grasp this instantly, as it's a very similar situation. We're often seen as bloody weird, and alot of people dont understand it, and... well... I dont think I need to paint a picture for anyone here at all, do I? Think of how much a little understanding would go in improving the lives of everyone on this forum. THAT is the sort of thing I mean.

It's like those of us that are quirky in whatever way, right, and people around us always try to FORCE us to be something we arent. On this forum, we see this all the time, eh? There's been one horror story after another over it. Some users here have expressed suicidal tendencies, due mostly to having to deal with that crap. And it's entirely because people cant simply accept that there are others out there who are different from them. That, as far as I see it, is the actual core of all of this.

Often, when topics like these come up, there is a word I like to point out: "Tribalism". It's at the core of an enormous amount of problems in society and the world as a whole. Some of you might do yourselves a favor and read up on it... I mean *really* research it, not just read an article or two. You might find that some of it hits home with your own experiences as people with a form of autism. Specifically, with the struggles you face.

And when it comes to LGBT stuff, and the constant battle there, tribalism is at the core of that as well. People are wired, somewhere deep, to not accept those who arent part of the group that they themselves belong to, and they'll find ways to invent all sorts of reasons to justify this to themselves and others around them. It's a very ancient and primitive bit of psychology, and one of the strongest parts of the mind. If you look around, you can see non-stop examples of it in action. And I mean *everywhere*. Look into it enough, and you'll see what I mean.

But as strong as that is, it CAN be beaten. Simply learning to accept others, to try to understand THEIR point of view instead of only focusing on your own, is one of the keys to getting past that. And getting past that is the key to helping those who need it.


And one other thing that can help ALOT here is TOTALLY AND UTTERLY IGNORING the political side of this. My own views? They are what they are entirely based on *just* my experiences, logic, and very direct interactions with those that have this issue. They are NOT based on any damn stupid political whatsits, because I dont HAVE any stupid political whatsits. I dont follow politics to the point where the ONLY thing I tend to know about even the most important politicians is their name, and only because it's mentioned so bloody often (and even then, I'll still sometimes forget the name of the freaking President, whoever it is at the time, as I *seriously* dont care, and frankly, dont actually want to know). So, my views arent poisoned by that. And it IS poison... politics is easily the single most toxic thing I've ever encountered in society. And for me to say THAT is really something. I could throw example after example proving this, and keep that up for days. Distancing yourself from all of that toxic crap is important in gaining an ACTUAL understanding of even the basics of the situation, from an unbiased point of view.


Also, something else that's important: "Understanding" does not mean "being in agreement". You can understand something without LIKING it, or even thinking it's a good idea. Understanding is the simple acceptance that others have different views, wants, needs, and so on.... and there's nothing wrong with that (unless of course their "view" is something like "should be stabbing everyone with a knife", then that bit isnt so good). When it comes to something like the whole gender thing? An individual's decision about that affects THEIR life. It's something that they do for themselves. It doesnt even DO anything to other people. I mean, if someone I know were to very suddenly decide that they want to transition, well.... where, exactly, is the problem there, to me? Can ANYONE find a problem there? Something tells me the answer to that one is "no". It doesnt affect me UNLESS I DECIDE IT DOES. So, there's no harm to me, nothing bad coming my way as a result of that person's transition. It's not like they are forcibly sending ME in for an operation, is it? And that, to me, makes this entire thing even WORSE, because people are flipping the funky hell out over something that doesnt DO anything to them.... but absolutely DOES hurt, and even kill, those that are simply trying to make this decision for themselves. Really, it absolutely baffles me that people behave this way, but.... at the same time, "tribalism".... which I've gotten very familiar with at this point. So on the other hand, it doesnt baffle me, but is really bloody tiresome and exasperating.


Instead of taking someone who is doing something that ONLY affects them (as opposed to, say, trying to murder someone) and trying to force them to change via therapy, just let them be who they are. Help them LEARN about the subject, instead of forcing them into a futile battle that, frankly, they probably dont even want to fight. Granted, there are some that may want that fight... but that's entirely up to them. Just like with the whole "cure for autism" bit. We're all familiar with THAT one, right? Would you force a cure on someone with autism that DOESNT want it? No, seriously... would you?

I strongly suggest you think very, very hard about that one.

Again, you dont have to agree with them. Everyone seems to think it's about that. Just stop trying to shove everyone into a box that fits YOU instead of a box that fits THEM.

I'm not addressing anyone specific here also, I'd like to point out. I'm just ranting in a general sense about this subject. I dont have any problems whatsoever with any specific individuals on this site (or I'd have made that very, very clear if I did). So dont take any of this to be anger directed at anyone. Anyone that's seen me enough or met me in person probably knows that I *always* sound like this. Even if I were talking about my special interest I *still* sound like this. So... dont get the wrong idea here. My goal is generally just to get people to think about this a bit more. On their own, rather than just following a group. Seriously, that's the whole point.



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01 Jun 2017, 11:47 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
I believe gender is neither a linear spectrum nor a binary. If anything, it's a state of mind.

I should've clarified; I think most people are somewhere on the male/female spectrum, but then you have people who fall outside of that spectrum. Biological sexes on the other hand are more straightforward, though there are variations like XXY males, intersex individuals, etc. In my opinion, gender is mental, sex is physical, and it's entirely possible for a person's sex and gender to not match up the way they normally would.


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04 Jun 2017, 10:10 am

Misery wrote:
The way I see this, as someone who has screwy issues of my own, is very, very simple:

My "gender" is whatever in the bloody hell I decide it to be. I dont get to decide how I'm wired, like with autism. But I can decide how it's expressed. I often just say "androgynous" because screw it, it seems right really. So, I'll do that. Me being the way that I am, anyone dumb enough to get in my way is gonna have a bad time.
...
Again, you dont have to agree with them. Everyone seems to think it's about that. Just stop trying to shove everyone into a box that fits YOU instead of a box that fits THEM.


I wasn't going to bother with this thread, because I really don't care how anyone else defines gender unless they are hassling me directly about it, but,

Cheers m8.


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