Special school V autism resource unit with in a mainstream

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MrsSteam
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27 Apr 2017, 3:38 am

Hi all ,

I am currently deciding which school to send my son to , ultimately I need to make the decision soon( one I am so worried about ) but I would like to hear some experiences from people regarding both these types of settings from both parents and previous students.

my choice is

Special school for children with moderate disabilities

It has a swimming pool
10 children per year ( same age)
all the therapy rooms are a good size and well supplied
It is on the same site as mainstream but they dont integrate ( sometimes but rarely)
the facilities are fantastic
the head teacher seemed head strong
He will be with children with many different disabilities


Autism resource unit with in a mainstream
just 2 class rooms and a therapy room
has access to own playground or they can choose to play in the mainstream one
they lunch in the mainstream ( if they child can not cope they dont have to thou)
class is mixed ages but this year there will be 4 people his age.
The head teacher seemed very caring
class of 10 mixed ages

The special school rightly so has the most amazing facilities and was my original choice but the autism unit has the potential for him to integrate and they are almost certain he will access some of the mainstream class's ( once again its his choice)

Both schools think he will be suited to their school.

What i think im looking for what are the pro's to an autism unit ?
why would one choose that over a special school ( for multiple moderate disabilities )


My oldest is also on the spectrum she is currently in mainstream

we live in the UK

Sorry about the rambling , hope I make sense.



smudge
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27 Apr 2017, 6:11 am

Your son will need specialist help, very specific to autism. I would choose the one with the special unit, because that sort of specialist help is rare.

Having said that, is that unit new? They may not be up to speed if it has only been in place for a couple of years.

THE thing to do is to type into Google, "Reviews nameofschool". It very much depends on the school. But if they're both good, then go to one that specialises in autism.


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MrsSteam
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27 Apr 2017, 6:55 am

smudge wrote:
Your son will need specialist help, very specific to autism. I would choose the one with the special unit, because that sort of specialist help is rare.

Having said that, is that unit new? They may not be up to speed if it has only been in place for a couple of years.

THE thing to do is to type into Google, "Reviews nameofschool". It very much depends on the school. But if they're both good, then go to one that specialises in autism.



The resource unit is several years old at least.
The special school ( just double checked the website) does say particularly autism actually so i'm guessing its a higher ratio of autism there but has been around for over 30 years . but its stricter when it comes to attendance and phasing in is quick .
The unit has stated we will phase in for as long as we see suitable.
I feel the unit is more flexible but i'm worried about turning down a special school which has amazing facilities and outstanding ofstead.

Will the fact that he has access to some mainstream make a big difference , i feel theyre both equal when it comes to their autism knowledge .
I know worse case he can move to a special school( well if there is space) and the unit has moved on one child recently to the special school as for he wasn't coping in the unit.



eikonabridge
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27 Apr 2017, 7:28 am

You will get different opinions from different people. Ultimately you'll have to make decision for yourself.

The way I view it is, today, out there, teachers have zero clue on how to raise autistic children. They view these children as disabled. They view these children as in need of conversion therapy. The teachers' goal is to attempt to inundate these children with speech therapy and behavioral corrections to make these children social. Special education ends up being lesser education. They don't realize how harmful all these things are towards the development of autistic children. So, many of these smart children end up as comatose adults. The special needs teachers would never teach your children advanced calculus, robotics, 3D modeling, Python programming, etc. Your children are never allowed to stand out. They will try to make your children fit into the neurotypical ideal... obviously it all ends up in failure. It's been 74 years since the formal discovery of autism. Sadly, schools keep applying the same failed approaches.

I personally prefer mainstream school, for the simple fact that I don't think the autism teachers know what they are doing. Nowadays even the mainstream teachers are familiar with accommodating children on the spectrum, so bullying and other things are more under control. In the USA we have a federal law known as "Least Restrictive Environment." The law is there for a reason. Parent can always refuse special education to the extend that is reasonable. Still, schools are not where you want your son to get his main education. Your outside services provider (what we call ABA in the US) should be your main focus. To me, the best choices of education are:
(1) Homeschooling
(2) A private school
(3) A public school in mainstream setting
(4) A public school in special education setting
Many of the successful children on the spectrum are actually homeschooled. E.g. Jacob Barnett. or Jory Fleming (who is heading over UK as a Rhodes Scholar).

That should give you an idea. Of course, it's just my opinion. I do hang around with several dozens of families with children on the spectrum. I've seen enough horrors from schools, to the point of making me say: "enough is enough."


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ASDMommyASDKid
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27 Apr 2017, 12:23 pm

eikonabridge wrote:
The way I view it is, today, out there, teachers have zero clue on how to raise autistic children. They view these children as disabled. They view these children as in need of conversion therapy. The teachers' goal is to attempt to inundate these children with speech therapy and behavioral corrections to make these children social. Special education ends up being lesser education. They don't realize how harmful all these things are towards the development of autistic children. So, many of these smart children end up as comatose adults. The special needs teachers would never teach your children advanced calculus, robotics, 3D modeling, Python programming, etc. Your children are never allowed to stand out. Your outside services provider (what we call ABA in the US) should be your main focus.



Question for you Eikonabridge: Why do you view speech as more like conversion therapy than ABA? Where I live, when we were using the public school system, speech was actually very useful. It was helpful in terms of pragmatic issues and mostly consisted of game playing. The only problem we had with it was when they switched teachers on us (without warning us) to someone very ill-equipped and unwilling to deal with autistic issues. Do they handle speech in an objectionable way where you are?

For us the terrible speech teacher was an anomaly and all the other speech teachers were actually the ones who got it the most. We did not do any ABA therapy at all, and that is what I usually associate more in my head with purging autistic behaviors. Since yours is done privately, it may be not be the case for you; and I know that ABA has softened over the years. But given that the focus is on behavior, in my head I see it as having a much higher probability of taking an anti-autistic approach.

Sometimes, I think it is more the quality of the actual practitioner itself, then the category. But I would not warn people from speech therapy in general. Where I live, they actually seem the most knowledgeable of anyone.



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27 Apr 2017, 1:08 pm

MrsSteam wrote:
smudge wrote:
Your son will need specialist help, very specific to autism. I would choose the one with the special unit, because that sort of specialist help is rare.

Having said that, is that unit new? They may not be up to speed if it has only been in place for a couple of years.

THE thing to do is to type into Google, "Reviews nameofschool". It very much depends on the school. But if they're both good, then go to one that specialises in autism.



The resource unit is several years old at least.
The special school ( just double checked the website) does say particularly autism actually so i'm guessing its a higher ratio of autism there but has been around for over 30 years . but its stricter when it comes to attendance and phasing in is quick .
The unit has stated we will phase in for as long as we see suitable.
I feel the unit is more flexible but i'm worried about turning down a special school which has amazing facilities and outstanding ofstead.

Will the fact that he has access to some mainstream make a big difference , i feel theyre both equal when it comes to their autism knowledge .
I know worse case he can move to a special school( well if there is space) and the unit has moved on one child recently to the special school as for he wasn't coping in the unit.


I think if your son can survive in mainstream with a special unit, then go mainstream, because special schools are limited in what they can teach. I don't think even the children with mild learning difficulties were taught to their level at the special school I went to, TBH. I went to college afterwards and got my GCSEs and A levels there. One of the other kids went back to a mainstream school when he was 16 to redo the last couple of years. Really looking back, the qualifications and things they taught at special school were more for moderate to severe learning difficulties. I don't think even the children with mild learning difficulties belonged there.

That, and I was certainly bullied at special school, it's not like smaller groups of people are going to get rid of that. I was glad to leave. And this school was outstanding according to Ofsted too.


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MrsSteam
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27 Apr 2017, 2:14 pm

Thank you all for your in depth replies , nice to see another Londoner replying too.

I agree the practitioner has to be right our first therapist was great at teaching speech but thats all she did and she annoyed my son lol , now we receive at home speech and language , with some OT and other support from a specially trained support worker.

Aba is not something we do at the moment and im not sure about it.

He also has sensory processing issues , he's trying to chew my hair as i type this lol .



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27 Apr 2017, 10:12 pm

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
Question for you Eikonabridge: Why do you view speech as more like conversion therapy than ABA?

I must say I am talking in general terms. (We've been lucky with our children's teachers. Sorry I can't get too much into personal details.) That being said, it's usually a case of "follow the money." Public school teachers are not paid by parents directly. So, there is little leverage. ABA providers or private schools, on the other hand, are chosen by you. You don't like your ABA or private school, you can change in a moment. Also, public schools, in particular, in the special-ed setting, usually try to keep parents away as much as possible. You barely can get a few hours of "observation" in a semester. On the other hand, some private schools have open-school policy: parents can drop by the classroom anytime, and stay for any length of time.

Sure, there are exceptionally good teachers in public schools. But those cases are rare. One has to be lucky.

I have more leverage than other parents, because schools know who I am. Other parents don't have that leverage, and are badly mistreated. Schools look at parents with the attitude of "... and what do you know about autism and special education? We've been in the field for these xyz years..." They feel like parents are stepping on their toes. Because public teachers are not paid by parents (directly), more often than not, they reject any suggestions/opinions from parents. One example. A non-verbal boy, ~6 years old, can perform 3-digit-by-3-digit multiplication at age 3, and today can solve "word problems" in math. Yet school confines itself to teaching the boy how to say "c-a-t" as "cat" (phonics) and insists that the boy has no understanding. Another boy, ~7 years old, can perform large-value Fibonacci series summation on a piece of paper napkin, but is laid to waste in special ed despite his math talent. What do public school do? Yeap, speech, behavioral correction. Reading comprehension, when the children have zero interest. And then you see the children don't make any progress. These types of cases drive me nuts.

Quote:
Sometimes, I think it is more the quality of the actual practitioner itself, then the category. But I would not warn people from speech therapy in general. Where I live, they actually seem the most knowledgeable of anyone.

Sure. Conversely, some ABA therapists are very good and draw pictures for children. Some even custom build elevators. Some read books with children. Similarly, some speech teachers do draw pictures. On the speech therapy, if you use speech therapy and do something different from speech, follow the children's special interests, and provide these children with presentation opportunities to teach neurotypical children, that would be great. Frankly, my daughter gained a lot of her confidence and speech skills, because she was an early reader and was in a Montessori school. So, other children would always come to her and ask her to read books for them. To me, that's the right way of raising autistic children. They are born to be leaders... but today, so many autistic children are so badly mistreated by our public schools. I mention ABA because you are free to switch providers, until you find one that can work with you. With public schools, you don't have that choice. (Now you know my opinion about school vouchers, too. Sorry, an entirely different subject. A can of worms... I'll shut up right here.)

It does not matter what the work title of a practitioner is. As long as the practitioner knows the right thing to do, that's all that matters. The only thing is, there is a box on practitioners and there are some red lines. They can only push so far, without getting themselves into troubles with "the system." That's the sad reality.

I am not a believer of speech therapy. Autistic children develop best from their strength. Speech, socialization all come for free, later, as long as the children are fully developed. Speech is totally unnecessary for the intellectual development of a child. It's something good to have, but it's not a necessity. Helen Keller was both blind and deaf, and grew up quite alright. So don't tell me that speech is necessary. Speech is only necessary in the minds of adults that can't draw pictures. (Sure, even pictures are unnecessary for Helen Keller.) Intellectual development has nothing to do with speech.


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28 Apr 2017, 2:45 am

^ I had 3 years speech therapy from age 5 to 8. I could draw very well, I would wow people (not them making a fuss out of me, but going to my mum, "It looks exactly the same!!"). What would have become of me, if I was taught and raised in the "better" ways you suggest? I am genuinely curious.


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28 Apr 2017, 7:20 am

eikonabridge wrote:
ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
Question for you Eikonabridge: Why do you view speech as more like conversion therapy than ABA?

I must say I am talking in general terms. (We've been lucky with our children's teachers. Sorry I can't get too much into personal details.) That being said, it's usually a case of "follow the money." Public school teachers are not paid by parents directly. So, there is little leverage. ABA providers or private schools, on the other hand, are chosen by you. You don't like your ABA or private school, you can change in a moment. Also, public schools, in particular, in the special-ed setting, usually try to keep parents away as much as possible. You barely can get a few hours of "observation" in a semester. On the other hand, some private schools have open-school policy: parents can drop by the classroom anytime, and stay for any length of time.

Sure, there are exceptionally good teachers in public schools. But those cases are rare. One has to be lucky.

I have more leverage than other parents, because schools know who I am. Other parents don't have that leverage, and are badly mistreated. Schools look at parents with the attitude of "... and what do you know about autism and special education? We've been in the field for these xyz years..." They feel like parents are stepping on their toes. Because public teachers are not paid by parents (directly), more often than not, they reject any suggestions/opinions from parents. One example. A non-verbal boy, ~6 years old, can perform 3-digit-by-3-digit multiplication at age 3, and today can solve "word problems" in math. Yet school confines itself to teaching the boy how to say "c-a-t" as "cat" (phonics) and insists that the boy has no understanding. Another boy, ~7 years old, can perform large-value Fibonacci series summation on a piece of paper napkin, but is laid to waste in special ed despite his math talent. What do public school do? Yeap, speech, behavioral correction. Reading comprehension, when the children have zero interest. And then you see the children don't make any progress. These types of cases drive me nuts.

Quote:
Sometimes, I think it is more the quality of the actual practitioner itself, then the category. But I would not warn people from speech therapy in general. Where I live, they actually seem the most knowledgeable of anyone.

Sure. Conversely, some ABA therapists are very good and draw pictures for children. Some even custom build elevators. Some read books with children. Similarly, some speech teachers do draw pictures. On the speech therapy, if you use speech therapy and do something different from speech, follow the children's special interests, and provide these children with presentation opportunities to teach neurotypical children, that would be great. Frankly, my daughter gained a lot of her confidence and speech skills, because she was an early reader and was in a Montessori school. So, other children would always come to her and ask her to read books for them. To me, that's the right way of raising autistic children. They are born to be leaders... but today, so many autistic children are so badly mistreated by our public schools. I mention ABA because you are free to switch providers, until you find one that can work with you. With public schools, you don't have that choice. (Now you know my opinion about school vouchers, too. Sorry, an entirely different subject. A can of worms... I'll shut up right here.)

It does not matter what the work title of a practitioner is. As long as the practitioner knows the right thing to do, that's all that matters. The only thing is, there is a box on practitioners and there are some red lines. They can only push so far, without getting themselves into troubles with "the system." That's the sad reality.

I am not a believer of speech therapy. Autistic children develop best from their strength. Speech, socialization all come for free, later, as long as the children are fully developed. Speech is totally unnecessary for the intellectual development of a child. It's something good to have, but it's not a necessity. Helen Keller was both blind and deaf, and grew up quite alright. So don't tell me that speech is necessary. Speech is only necessary in the minds of adults that can't draw pictures. (Sure, even pictures are unnecessary for Helen Keller.) Intellectual development has nothing to do with speech.



Ok, so what you are really talking about is not ABA vs. Speech but publically paid vs privately paid for services. You can contract privately for speech and you can get school-funded ABA. Of course YMMV, but I would think publically paid ABA would be actual dog-training style conversion therapy, which is not what we wanted. We were not offered it, and we rejected anything that looked like it. Speech was actually fun and helpful and not about forcing him to speak when he did not feel like it.

What you are really saying is just to be wary of school funded assistance, which I would totally agree with. All school-funded services should be looked at in this light because it is not always helpful and should be monitored as best you can, and of course you cannot monitor it as well as as what you pay for privately..



MrsSteam
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28 Apr 2017, 7:50 am

OK , breath.

I'v done it iv opted for the mainstream with a unit.

In the UK we can have a private funded place paid by your LA so the private v public argument is sort of lost here .

We use learning models and we use it in play.

SCERTS
TEAACH
Attention autism

We also use makaton and pecs

Montessori styles are popular here both my children attended these types of nurserys.
The people that work in the units actually have children with autism ( well usually 1 or 2)

I agree on working on their strengths but communication whether its sign language or speech is important to us.



my daughter hates maths she struggles with it , but iv noticed shes not as bad as she thinks she needs to be taught a different way . if anyone's got any ideas for that?



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28 Apr 2017, 9:08 am

How did she do with manipulatives? Manipulatives are a great way to visualize the math being done.



eikonabridge
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29 Apr 2017, 11:16 am

MrsSteam wrote:
my daughter hates maths she struggles with it , but iv noticed shes not as bad as she thinks she needs to be taught a different way . if anyone's got any ideas for that?

I must confess that the first time I took a physics course in high school, I had the hardest time understanding the concept of "instantaneous velocity" (as opposed to "average velocity.") The problem was, the teacher taught it with math equations. If he had simply mentioned that "instantaneous speed" is what you see on the speedometer in cars, it would have solved my confusion in a second. (Sure, nothing physical can be instantaneous, so the speedometer is only an approximation, but that's the right starting point to get students into thinking on what "infinitesimal" is all about.)

Similarly, math is everywhere in daily life. I guess lately I have realized that the "tactile" component is important, too. It's always good to start with the child's interests. There is no fixed formula. Each child may have his/her own interest. A few examples.

Popcorn: even popcorn pieces are good for teaching children math. (My son also learned addition/subtraction from elevators.) I told my son that the best part of the exercise was that the student (my son) gets to eat his "homework."



Colorful electronic wires: you can do "Japanese multiplication" (google for it) with them. Be creative. You can use thicker wires to represent 5s and 10s.

Image

Bamboo skewers: I signed up my children for a cooking class. So it came to my mind to use bamboo skewers and tiny pieces of paper to make shish kebabs for my son. I asked him what he wanted on his shish kebab, and drew the pictures and wrote down the words on each piece of paper: 2 onions, 2 tomatos, and 2 meatballs. So 6 food items on a stick. Then I told him we were just going to pretend the other sticks are full, too. Then we started to practice multiplication problems. 1x6, 2x6, ..., 8x6. See, math is everywhere. (My son actually also drew a picture of a stove to roast his shish kebab.) I've told my son that "Papa sometimes is your friend, but sometimes is your teacher, is that OK?" and my son said yes. A moment later he assembled the shish kebabs nicely on a tray, and then quizzed me on what 8x6 was. I told him it was 48. He then very seriously said to me: "Dad, sometimes I am your friend, but sometimes I am your teacher, is that OK?" I just totally cracked up and told him: "Of course!" My children have always been my teachers.

Image

It depends on whether your child is interested in 2D or 3D objects. 2D children are easier, you just need to draw pictures. 3D children develop best through building block constructions (e.g. Mega Bloks). Once they show interest in building things, that's also the moment you want to introduce them to electronic circuits. Look up "snap circuits" on Amazon. (Trust me, I also know girls that love to play with snap circuits.) Recently I learned from my 9-year-old daughter's lab class that you could build circuits using "conductive adhesive tapes" as well. So I bought some materials from Amazon and built this simple circuit below. It's a nice project to do at home. The ingredients are (1) cardboard, (2) 1/4 inch conductive adhesive tape, (3) CR2032 3V lithium battery, (4) pushbutton switch, (5) LED (light-emitting diode) 5mm 3V, (6) some glue, and a small piece of masking tape for insulation.

Image

See, I've always had fun with my children. There is always something fun, something new, everyday.


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MrsSteam
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29 Apr 2017, 11:53 am

wow thanks these look great . The Japanese multiplication is fascinating ! My youngest loves your raining tacos video , by coincidence we went out and got some today and sang the song as we went to get them :D