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Campin_Cat
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29 Apr 2017, 4:50 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
Predestination in the religious sense simply means that God knows what each person will choose, not that God forces anyone to choose anything in particular.

Another excellent point, IMO.







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886
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29 Apr 2017, 9:59 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
Also, WWIII is supposed to happen in 2017 according to God's plans and his plan only.


no it isnt :|

where are you reading all this? some pastor thinks the world will end every year, they all predict the end of the world, the next big war, and they're all wrong, every single time. please don't rely on the internet to give you information like this, it's always garbage


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friedmacguffins
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30 Apr 2017, 9:31 am

shlaifu wrote:
So...what's the problem with predetermination? As long as you don't know what you're predetermined to do, you're free.

What if you're participating willingly.

Quote:
Mrs. Gump: I happen to believe you make your own destiny. You have to do the best with what God gave you.

you have to
with what God gave you

Quote:
Mrs. Gump: ... Life is a box of chocolates, Forrest. You never know what you're gonna get.

what you're going to get

In a manner of speaking, he chooses to be ret*d. He accepts his status and does nothing to change that, in all of his adventures.



K_Kelly
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30 Apr 2017, 7:40 pm

886 wrote:
K_Kelly wrote:
Also, WWIII is supposed to happen in 2017 according to God's plans and his plan only.


no it isnt :|

where are you reading all this? some pastor thinks the world will end every year, they all predict the end of the world, the next big war, and they're all wrong, every single time. please don't rely on the internet to give you information like this, it's always garbage


Then why do we have all this tension with places like N. Korea all of a sudden?

Also found a video recently posted on another forum that explains an alleged secret plot to NUKE parts of the US. Even though this was from 2013, there are comments from a few days ago all over the video. Hey, it makes me wonder why.

I'm feeling quite tense right now.



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30 Apr 2017, 8:48 pm

We can hate God only if we imply that not only God is moral, but God is pure good. For the purpose of answering this question, I'm not going to use a strictly modern Christian idea of God, and I'll open the concept a bit more.
It is said that we've been created to God's image, but is there anything implying that God is 100% like us ? That God has an idea of morality, good and evil, that is at the origin a human concept ? Morality, good and evil are things that are far from being universal. If we strictly wanted to adhere to this idea that God should be a moral being, should follow morals using human standards, and were supposed to create a perfect universe, then we could easily accuse the creator of cruelty. But here is the thing : God isn't a simple human being like us. We're simply viewing the idea of God through the tainted filter of our own standards.
And the universe just can't exist if there is no balance. For example, you can't have life without letting it adapt. In order to let it adapt, it needs to mutate. And as it needs to mutate, you can't escape a few monstrous consequences such as death, predation, parasitism and cancer. We tend to confuse perfect with optimal. God has made the universe to make it function in an optimal way. Which is far from being a perfect way, because the perfect way is technically impossible to do.
We can't have light without darkness. And we can't expect the universe to be dominated by standards that are just our own way to interpret our environment, because of we do, then we expect God to be a human being, and we place our species at the center, beginning and purpose of the universe as we always love to do it. Let's not forget that God is the creator, absolutely not a creature like we are.



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30 Apr 2017, 9:11 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
Yes, I believe a God exists, but I can't even stand him. I'm sorry if this sounds like my other posts. God represents an unalterable totalitarian dictator who predetermines and has sovereignty over my free will. I'd rather not. I grew up as a Catholic, I've been on a Christian forum lately and while a few answers were decent, most I just can't swallow. Also, WWIII is supposed to happen in 2017 according to God's plans and his plan only. I can't question him on it. I don't look forward to Jesus' return at all. Heaven seems like it will be Hell instead. God has issues with individuality.


I don't see the Bible mentioning when World War III will happen so I'm not sure where you heard that it is supposed to happen in 2017. Interestingly, there is some war in there mentioned that involves Iran, Russia, and Israel, among others. What is so interesting is that it mentions that Israel wins but that it takes many months to bury the dead. What comes to mind is that it WOULD take a while to dispose of the dead if the war involved NUKES, which, thanks to President Otraitor, the Iranians now have. (I think Israel also has some kind of major weaponry.)


I believe that we could avoid a major war with Kim Jung Fat Boy in North Korea by some stealth actions. However, thanks to President Otraitor, war involving Israel, and possibly the US (though the prophecy, strangely, doesn't mention the US, just Israel, in that one, so maybe a Dem is President when it happens or the US cannot react in time.), and Iran is now UNAVOIDABLE. If we don't strike Iran before they can fully develop their nukes, I know Netanyahu will. He's not gonna wait around until Iran has the ability to wipe Israel off the map. And a war between Israel and Iran would probably draw Russia, an ally of Iran, into the mess too.

MissAlgernon wrote:
We can hate God only if we imply that not only God is moral, but God is pure good. For the purpose of answering this question, I'm not going to use a strictly modern Christian idea of God, and I'll open the concept a bit more.
It is said that we've been created to God's image, but is there anything implying that God is 100% like us ? That God has an idea of morality, good and evil, that is at the origin a human concept ? Morality, good and evil are things that are far from being universal. If we strictly wanted to adhere to this idea that God should be a moral being, should follow morals using human standards, and were supposed to create a perfect universe, then we could easily accuse the creator of cruelty. But here is the thing : God isn't a simple human being like us. We're simply viewing the idea of God through the tainted filter of our own standards.
And the universe just can't exist if there is no balance. For example, you can't have life without letting it adapt. In order to let it adapt, it needs to mutate. And as it needs to mutate, you can't escape a few monstrous consequences such as death, predation, parasitism and cancer. We tend to confuse perfect with optimal. God has made the universe to make it function in an optimal way. Which is far from being a perfect way, because the perfect way is technically impossible to do.
We can't have light without darkness. And we can't expect the universe to be dominated by standards that are just our own way to interpret our environment, because of we do, then we expect God to be a human being, and we place our species at the center, beginning and purpose of the universe as we always love to do it. Let's not forget that God is the creator, absolutely not a creature like we are.


The Bible says that man ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. I would assume that man already knew good, but learned evil from the tree. However, apparently man wasn't able to handle evil and succumbed to it. However, if God made the tree, then He knew evil as well as good but was able to avoid doing the evil.



friedmacguffins
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01 May 2017, 10:15 am

Part of the discussion, in regards to rules and predestination, assumes that the world is constructed, in a certain way.

If you could tell the fish in an aquarium, not to dirty their little, plastic castle, not to run into the walls, or jump over the edge, should they complain of free will.

Is it not meaningful enough, to know what you have, and be glad for it.



leejosepho
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01 May 2017, 10:21 am

MissAlgernon wrote:
God isn't a simple human being like us. We're simply viewing the idea of God through the tainted filter of our own standards.

Yes, and that reminds me of Job 38:4: "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding..."


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friedmacguffins
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01 May 2017, 10:29 am

In the Christian worldview, God is a person, walked the Earth, was tempted to do wrong, and suffered human frailties. He is considered to be knowable and relatable.

People pondering the forces of nature might just ask, and be led to a new discovery. Can God be tested. Does logic imply a hidden cause.

Quote:
Mrs. Gump: I happen to believe you make your own destiny. You have to do the best with what God gave you.

friedmacguffins wrote:
you have to

friedmacguffins wrote:
with what God gave you


Quote:
Mrs. Gump: ... Life is a box of chocolates, Forrest. You never know what you're gonna get.

friedmacguffins wrote:
what you're going to get


To say that life is a box is like the analogy of the aquariam, in which there are discrete boundaries.