I can't stand God sometimes

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Yes, I believe a God exists, but I can't even stand him. I'm sorry if this sounds like my other posts. God represents an unalterable totalitarian dictator who predetermines and has sovereignty over my free will. I'd rather not. I grew up as a Catholic, I've been on a Christian forum lately and while a few answers were decent, most I just can't swallow. Also, WWIII is supposed to happen in 2017 according to God's plans and his plan only. I can't question him on it. I don't look forward to Jesus' return at all. Heaven seems like it will be Hell instead. God has issues with individuality.

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Last edited by Yo El on 28 Apr 2017, 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

WW3 in 2017, why would that be? And why does it rhyme so well. Last time I checked God didn't give a specific date for ww3. Atleast not in the Bible. Let me ask you this one question, do you want to be helped? Also wrong planet isn't the best website to talk about this stuff, most people here are atheists.

Read about Harold Camping - there's always some crackpot behind an end-of-the-world prediction. Horacio Villegas (a self styled psychic/mystic) is the person behind the current prediciton for 2017 - honestly, why would I trust their word for it?

As for the relationship with God - you're entirely right, he's written (by various authors) like a viscious, psychopatic, malicious dictator - and you are supposed to accept his omniscence along with your capacity for free will and sin, which means you're in a no-win situation - but you're also looking the psychology of a small sample of people from a civilization that hasn't been around for between 2000-5000 years. It's brutal because it's archaic.

Then, the question is why evil exists, as from the Christian perspective, which assumes a predetermined outcome.

Have you read any discussions on why evil exists.

Ask any one of these followers to sign their property, over to you, effective, as of the date of the prediction, to see whether they sincerely believe themselves.

Christians say that prophets (or spirits, visiting prospective prophets) are supposed to be tested. Usually, it's a pass or fail kind of test, not frivolous, never ending debates.

While we are expected to be gracious and forgiving, under the New Testament, there is no rational excuse for false prophets to carry on with any degree of moral authority, yet they will continue to cause problems, for decades, ongoing. So, the Old Testament penalty for false prophecy was brutal, to be carried out by the blasphemer's family and local community of supporters -- the same people who would have harbored the scam artist, while he continues to lie.

I mean, there was never any assumption, that we're supposed to cover for that.

A newer one is the Revelation 12 sign, of Jupiter in Virgo for 9ish months.

I suspect God has been mis-represented to you...and maybe the fact you are able to freely share as you have without being struck down by lightning -- God did not do that even with the prophets of Ba'al in the days of Elijah -- would be some good evidence of that. Free will and free-of-consequence are not the same thing, of course, but no society could survive if anyone and everyone could do as she or he wishes without consequence.

Another issue here is that many people confuse God with Santa Claus by thinking His blessings are attached to some kind of "Let's-make-a-deal" comparative-value system...and I challenge anyone to show where anything from man can ever trump what our Maker has in mind for all who are willing to "obey all these regulations I am giving you, so that it may always go well with you and your children after you" (Deuteronomy 12:28).

I found it interesting, btw, when there is discussion on Satanism, exorcism, horror-movie and Halloween-type stuff, that they believe in predestination. They specifically believe in the Christian worldview and implied determinism.

There are people in churches, and entire schisms, even at the pulpit, who don't believe as much about Christ, as a devil-worshipper, gnostic, or Luciferian does.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
-- Isaiah 45:7

It says that.

Jesus said that "God is a spirit" (whatever that means to anyone). For me, it means that the idea of God is just that, an idea, a notion, a philosophy, etc. Some theologians have said that it is okay (both biblically and spiritually) to sometimes get angry at God. There is, after all, only one unforgivable sin (denying the Holy Spirit; or doubting one's own "truths"). So, if you choose, be angry with Him. It is allowed, and, I believe, God loves the discussion. But, leave the door cracked open slightly for those times when you actually agree with Him and His work. He made you, didn't He? He can't be ALL bad.

I didn't mean to say he is all bad, even though my op might have came off that way.

I agree with leejosepho in that it's possible that God has been misrepresented to you----or, you haven't put alot of thought into Him----because, it seems you're just taking aim, at the easiest / most convenient target (which I can, actually, understand, as it takes much more brain power to try and figure-out why there are so many killings, for instance).

Also, it's possible, IMO, that you're thinking too much about the Old Testament, and about the stories of God punishing / testing / destroying people and things. The NEW Testament gave us Jesus, and Jesus, through his father, knew we were having a difficult time trying to follow so many rules, and so Jesus gave us what I like to call "The Bible Lite". It seems Jesus' basic message was, "You can get to the Father, through me", "Love thy neighbor as your brother", be kind to / look-out-for one another, etc.----and, you know, try not to kill anybody.

I don't believe God is a dictator----yes, He said "do this, if you want eternal life"; but, like leejosepho said, "free-will doesn't mean free-from-consequence". There has to be rules, or else we, humans, might have killed-off the human race, thousands of years ago.

I don't believe God has "sovereignty over my free will", because then it wouldn't be free-will, would it?

I also don't believe my free-will is "predetermined"----yes, the Bible says that God knows the end, from the beginning, but, maybe, he doesn't know specifics (ie, He knows that Sally will die at 34, but, maybe, He doesn't know [at her birth] that she will fall to her death from scaffolding).

Where, on earth, did you get the idea that WW3 was gonna happen in 2017----and, that it was His plan? It seems you are too easily taken-in by Internet Chicken Littles. Sure, it could happen----and, sure, it could even be God's plan----but, then, what can you do about it? Don't worry about things, you can't do anything about----just make sure that the things you CAN do something about, you do them, to the best of your ability.

I DON'T believe "God has issues with individuality", because if He did, He wouldn't continue to allow us to have free-will----again, you seem to want freedom from consequence, and God never promised us, that.

I believe it's okay (even, understandable) to be angry at God, at times----I know *I* have been----but, then, that's, IMO, one of the times when one needs God the MOST!! God knew we were going to struggle / falter----even, fall----but, He told us to turn to HIM at those times (the times when we feel angry, weak, fearful, unsure, etc.), and that He would give us strength; and, IMO, He DOES!!

You're right that this post sounds very similar to previous posts you've made, on this subject----and, because you ask, basically, the same question over and over again, it seems that you are unwilling to learn / accept / believe / whatever----OR, that you want someone else to decide FOR you, how / what you should believe. If you truly, TRULY want to believe----and, it seems like you do----then, IMO, you must do more than believe, you must follow. IMO, to be a follower, you must read / study / research everything you can get your hands on, regarding God. Sure, it'll be laborious----but, then, it'll be ingrained in your heart and mind and soul; and, you can't get that, IMO, by asking someone else to "give" you, your faith (which is, IMO, what you're doing, in essence, by continuing to ask the same question).

There used to be movies about plain crashes, when the vacation season was at it's peak, and I remember reading material, on the airplane (of all places) about someone who fell, bounced, and lived to tell about it.

The same predestination, which condemns a person, might just as well spare his life.

I find it interesting, how some of the blasphemers are not doing so, unwittingly. They see the bargain, for what it is. They already know, as by instinct, that is not for them. Some people feel that they know, in advance, that they were rejected, and can never be consoled away from that.

Is their faith the same as a Christian's?

I think that fate and will are reconciled, when people come to acknowledge the lot in life, which they have been given, and they accept that.

I think the hardcore, dyed-in-the-wool rebels, who will never change their spots, when faced with the choices of pass or fail, would pick the losing side, for spite.

Freewill or destiny?

The photo below was taken by me some years ago:



Mrs. Gump: I happen to believe you make your own destiny. You have to do the best with what God gave you.

Forrest Gump: What's my destiny, Mama?

Mrs. Gump: You're gonna have to figure that out for yourself. Life is a box of chocolates, Forrest. You never know what you're gonna get.

-- Paramount Pictures, 1994

Agnostic atheist here.
So...what's the problem with predetermination? As long as you don't know what you're predetermined to do, you're free.

Just don't ask your god about it, and everything you do is, by default, what you're predetermined to do. So run for president, start ww3 yourself if you must.
If you fail, that's fate.
If hou succeed, it's fate.
Either way, it's fate.

So knock yourself out.

Believer in God here.
And you make a good point.

This is precisely why fortune-telling is wrong.
It's generally not a good thing to know the future,
not even the good things that will happen,
because then you might mess up your destiny.

Knowing the bad things in advance = too much worry.
Knowing the good things in advance = too much complacency.

That said, I do have a slight quibble with predestination
when it comes to people just saying "whatever" and passively resigning themselves to "fate" ...
Predestination in the religious sense simply means that God knows what each person will choose,
not that God forces anyone to choose anything in particular.
Choices still have consequences, so it's best to choose wisely.

So basically, yeah ...
" As long as you don't know what you're predetermined to do, you're free."

That is one of my all-time favorite movies----one of the best movies ever made, IMO!!

I have, more-than-once, wished more people could see the irony, in that movie----the profundity, the wonder, the lessons, etc. One of the reasons I broke-up with someone, one time, was because he made fun of that movie!! I thought to myself, if you can't / aren't willing to see that there just might be more meaning to something, than what appears on the surface, you're not for me!!

EXCELLENT point!!