America can't be saved from ideology

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Democracy isn't the issue, it's the structure that's built up around it. Especially America, because you only get two choices. If both choices suck, then you're f****d!

Reform is needed in the structure of running the country, not democracy itself. But you can also have a better democratic system. In France, Le Pen went up against Macron in a second round, rather than just giving it to Macron as the first round front runner. This is good. But 1st to 4th were separated by a razor thin margin in relative terms. Macron got 24.01% while 4th place Melenchon got 19.58%. Less than 5% separated 1st and 4th! If you'd had five rounds instead of two, it could easily have been third or fourth which ultimately prevailed.

The easier it is for new parties to rise and challenge the status quo, the better. The more choice, the better.

A trickier problem is continuity. Trump is tearing apart Obama's work, and no doubt the one that follows Trump will tear apart what he did, and so on. If a company operated in such a way, it would get run out of business wasting so much energy and money and constantly replacing employees with new employees by another company that was a well oiled cohesive machine, continually striding forward and expanding.

Here's the thing, I don't see any objective proof of this, just a bunch of paranoid ranting.

The problem that I DO see, as previously stated, is that many people do not understand how our system is supposed to work and many seem hell bent on throwing the baby out with the bathwater because they don't like the way things are at the moment.

As much as I don't like them, the TeaPary has shown that the system does work, and can be responsive to the people if they participate.

I live in a congressional district where I have not even had THE OPTION to vote for a democrat in the last two elections--basically due to apathy among the lefties around here.

However, I am going to do all I can to make sure that that NEVER happens again. I'm pretty sure that I (and others) will find a Dem to run in 2018. They might not win, since I live in the reddest district of a deep red state, but we will make the GOP candidate work for the office, and eventually, we could take the district... Just look at what's happening in GA right now. I used to work in that district, and I'd never dreamed that a Dem could have a chance there.

The system does still work if you work it.

The idea that the system is broken beyond repair, is alt-right/Russian propaganda.

After reading some of your pre-election posts, I hope Putin is paying you well.



You do know Alex Jones is a Russian tool, right?

I guess I am a bit of a Russophile, I didn't grow up with the Cold War so maybe this anti-Russian sentiment wasn't instilled in me like it was other but I did experience 9/11 and as I was it did have a profound effect on me. I respect Russia as a world power and think the entire planet would be safer if the US and Russia could get along, that's like 90% of the nuclear weapons on the planet. I see our government literally giving weapons and training to terrorists in Syria and wanting to overthrow the legitimate government of the country, we like to stab people in the back like we did Saddam and then Gadaffi and we hoped Assad. Funny how so few of those Arab Spring protests happened in those Gulf countries... 'But my point was I see that and then Putin comes along and actually starts bringing the pain down on these scoundrels while wimpy Obama cries about war crimes never mind the US does daily drone bombing and is guilty of everything these accuse someone else of. I see it as an opportunity for two of the great powers to forge a bond to combat a common enemy. I came to this conclusion long before Trump so when he said he wants to get along Russia it definitely caught my ear. I would really love to collect on those rubles owed to me tho, I feel like I've done some invaluable work.

Russia has nothing to do with the erosion of faith in these institution, people aren't stupid and see they aren't worth trusting and that it's a rigged game. How could have faith in the system after this election? And after it with the media straight up advocating sedition tells me and the 'deep state' illegally conspiring the remove General Flynn. It's not propaganda, I can see with my own two eyes. It is the nature of the opposition to Trump that leads me to believe in the faltering of our democracy, like Rahm Emanuel said "elections have consequences" but if they don't and they're ultimately pointless then it's time to burn it to ground and start anew. WTF are Trump supporters suppose to think when the opposition is literally calling themselves 'the resistance' and are undermining the lawful authority of the president with politicized courts like in the Ninth Circuit or from within the government by leaks. Obama engaged in mass surveillance and used the 'intelligence' it gathered to batter their enemies with, it's criminal stuff clear as day but it's all excuse and brushed under the rug. We desperately need term limits.

Why do lefties hate Russia so much?

Because they betrayed the Great Communist Dream.

What is so special about Russia to some Western people today? Not that I'm trying to be rash. I don't mean to offend any Russians.

EXCELLENT responses, Darmok!!

I don't think Russia's special, I just don't hate them.

godless communists hate religious conservatives

more things change, the more they stay the same

If America turns socialist I would be very amused to see the second cold war between a secular socialist United States and a Christian capitalist Russia.

The same reason I don't like the chinese. They're anti-democratic, authoritarian, terrible human rights record.

The apathy that people in this thread have toward the Russians is another reason I fear for democracy.

@ jacoby, Putin should give you a raise.

What about the concern for the apathy with the Chinese or the Saudis? Far far worse human rights abusers than Russia, far less democratic, far more repressive. It's not as bad to bow down and then stroll along a beach holding hands with the King of Saudi Arabia than to just have a private off the record conversation with the Russian ambassador. It's anti-Russian hysteria, it's a desperate reactivation of the antiquated Cold War mentality.

Russia doesn't pose a threat the US, we should work with them as much as possible and take advantage of a relationship that could benefit the whole world.

True.I think South Park did an episode on that. The thing that surprises me is that rather than wake up to the fact that both choices suck people just become more entrenched in their own side.A common problem with democracy. That sort of thing happens all the time in my country. We've spent fortunes on projects that were never completed.

Ahh whataboutism... Did you copy and paste that directly from your KGB disinformation manual?

The bad actions of other countries don't mitigate the bad actions of Russia.

BUT, for the record, I oppose American policy toward China and Saudi Arabia too. Both of those countries are despicable and we should not be enabling/empowering/supporting them either, comrade.

So how do you think we should approach our relationship with those countries? Should we be trying to overthrow their governments or put sanctions on them? That's the point, it's a valid comparison since we have at least working relationships with those countries and respect them as world powers so why can't we do the same with Russia?

The US cannot be the world police, we should not put ourselves upon a moral pedestal when we do the exact same things, it's not our obligation to ensure every country in the world is a western liberal democracy. The US has partook in many 'bad actions' and done so aggressively and will likely continue to do so, Russia on the other hand has reacted against aggression rather than this fictitious imperialism to we project onto Putin. The morality of realpolitik is in keeping the promise of looking out for the best interests of our own people, the state doesn't exist to serve the interests of all of mankind outside our borders but rather just the consenting governed. Going to sound like a broken record here but I want the foreign policy our founders intended; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all and entangling of alliances with none.

Russia and China are anti-democratic, authoritarian countries who actively menace their neighbors right now. If left unchecked, they will be global menaces in the future.

IT IS in the interests of the American people to see that this does not happen. Therefore, we should take every opportunity to strangle them both while we still can. You cannot appease rising aggressor nations.

If you don't believe me, just ask Neville Chamberlain