6 Y/O AD wants to be perfect; not receptive to feedback

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brewzombie
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09 May 2017, 2:59 pm

Hello,

My 6 yrs old daughter is Autistic (high functioning) and very bright. She seems to view herself as perfect and a "good girl" and any criticism directed at her (even constructive) from parent or teacher causes a mini-tantrum or for her to hide or run away. We get a similar reaction when we try to have her explain a negative interaction with a kid from school; she clams up and says she can't talk about it. I'm working with her support team to develop an approach to tackle this, but so far we haven't made much progress. She's very smart and capable of understanding complex reasons so I've tried explaining to her that receiving criticism is not bad but meant to help her improve (be more perfect?) and is "healthy" (she loves to be "healthy"), but I can see the huge anxiety she feels when one of us calls her over if there's even a hint that the reason is to suggest a better way of doing something. The other thing we're trying right now is to call her over a lot, without any criticism of any kind (not even constructive), to try to disassociate being called on with criticism. We've used the 4 zones of regulation for the past year to help with various issues, and are trying to use it here to help her understand that if she's feeling anxiety or frustration (yellow zone) that there's things she can do in the moment to help herself (e.g. breathe or that the size of the problem in this instance is small or not a problem at all; not appropriate to shout or run or contort her body).

If anyone has dealt with this issue in this age of child, I'd love to hear how you dealt with it. I don't think a simple social story will work in this instance.



ASDMommyASDKid
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10 May 2017, 7:15 am

Honestly, at that age, for us, anyway, I am not sure that anything helped, it was more like planting seeds for the future. The need to be perfect is a common feature of autistic children, and it is a hard adjustment.

If I had to guess which approach worked best, I would have to say it was "no one is perfect" angle. We were quick to admit our own mistakes and point out the mistakes of others in a positive way. (Not a snarkfest LOL) We used famous people in fields he admired and mentioned their famous mistakes and showed that regardless, they are very well-regarded.

We still are not where we need to be, but we have made good progress. (MY son is 12) He still gets upset if he gets things wrong he knows he should have gotten right, or if he gets exactly one wrong and almost got a perfect score. That said he is reacting less dramatically than he has, and he hes dealt with admitting not being good at certain things without agonizing over it.



brewzombie
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10 May 2017, 9:23 am

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
Honestly, at that age, for us, anyway, I am not sure that anything helped, it was more like planting seeds for the future. The need to be perfect is a common feature of autistic children, and it is a hard adjustment.

If I had to guess which approach worked best, I would have to say it was "no one is perfect" angle. We were quick to admit our own mistakes and point out the mistakes of others in a positive way. (Not a snarkfest LOL) We used famous people in fields he admired and mentioned their famous mistakes and showed that regardless, they are very well-regarded.

We still are not where we need to be, but we have made good progress. (MY son is 12) He still gets upset if he gets things wrong he knows he should have gotten right, or if he gets exactly one wrong and almost got a perfect score. That said he is reacting less dramatically than he has, and he hes dealt with admitting not being good at certain things without agonizing over it.


Thanks for sharing your experience. I will integrage that suggestion into our strategy. If I can switch her mind from the goal of perfection to the goal of improving (and mistakes being part of that process) and show her that everyone makes mistakes, hopefully the concept will "click".



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13 May 2017, 9:23 am

I wanted to be "perfect" at that age because when I did make a mistake, people REALLY overreacted about it and made me feel like I was a murderer.


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13 May 2017, 6:49 pm

My older son is a perfectionist. We have mantras: "Mistakes are how you learn" and "No one can be perfect." I strongly suggest enrolling her in classes of something you know for a fact she will NOT be good at, but will truly enjoy. My son was enrolled in martial arts at a young age and often fell down for no reason at all, didn't remember right and left, and was just generally not a graceful child. It was HARD for him to work through the idea of practice and correction to learn proper form, but the instructors were amazing with him. You just need to make sure the instructors are very good with kids.

Also pointing out the good parts then saying, "Oh look here is something you can learn from!" when you need to point out something that requires correction can help. Avoiding the words "wrong" and "incorrect" can be helpful as well.

I've worked with kids for years and lots of kids have perfectionist tendencies. They have an idea in thier head and if it doesn't come out of thier head exactly they way they envisioned it is WRONG!! ! Pointing out and praising the good portions and working around the problem areas until the child is willing to face them (if possible) helps a lot. Like if one portion of a picture is what they like and the rest isn't, cut out that part instead of letting them crumple and throw the whole thing away, for example. Age really does help with perfectionism because the more life experience you have the more you realize perfection is a concept not a reality. (That last bit is also a good mantra.)



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08 Jun 2017, 7:05 am

I'm a high functioning autistic woman, and mother to two children on the spectrum. I remember these feelings of not being able to tolerate constructive criticism (or pressure of any kind) and I have worked with this in my daughter and son. What I find helps is to, whenever possible, give suggestions without directing it at them. An example might be if I need to take a business call I might address my son who I know can tolerate the information, "Michael, I need to make a call, can you keep it down while I'm on the phone." My son knows I do this because his sister can't tolerate the directive so he feels more mature for playing along. My daughter who wants to be perfect will make sure she doesn't interrupt because she's already heard me tell her brother not to."

Her demand avoidance was so bad that I did home school with her for a little bit. During that time I worked 1:1 with her. She's extremely bright, but struggles with spelling and there was no way around the fact that I needed to correct her and teach her. What I would do was to use myself as an example. I would tell her I really struggled with spelling, that I still do even though I'm an adult. So normalizing the issue helped a little. Then I would try to motivate her by telling her that everyone struggles with something, but not everyone puts in the effort to overcome their challenges but I knew she could do it. That helped a little. Also I made sure she had the power to stop. We would do the spellings but the rule (for me) was that I had to accept when she said she'd had enough. It is really frustrating. But when I push her past the point when she's sad no it only leads to a meltdown and no learning. However I can put a reward system in place so that there is the incentive for her to do as much as she truly can. Lately she has started reading to me more and tolerating my little corrections and I give lots of praise around her letting me help. I tell her I'm impressed with her reading but even more impressed with how she lets me help. Because that's a life skill after all. I will say that she started medication around the age of 7 and that helped too. I hope I wasn't too preachy, just felt like I could relate.


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08 Jun 2017, 8:34 am

KateUher wrote:
. Also I made sure she had the power to stop. We would do the spellings but the rule (for me) was that I had to accept when she said she'd had enough. It is really frustrating. But when I push her past the point when she's sad no it only leads to a meltdown and no learning.


My mother homeschooled me since the fifth grade but would not let me have a break...even if I asked for it. I would have a meltdown as a result and I would get punished for the meltdown. When I was allowed breaks, it was only for a few minutes. Sometimes I just needed the school day to end for the day but that wasn't going to happen. My mom thought a meltdown was just a tantrum and would try to negotiate with me when I was having a meltdown. Anyhow, I just got to say you're going a good job letting your daughter have a break when SHE needs one.


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08 Jun 2017, 8:45 am

From modulation's point of view, the main issue is that the adults are attempting to solve the problem at the wrong moment. Negative issues are best solved when they are not happening. They are best solved when the child is happy and doing something else. (E.g. having a cup of ice cream or a blue sugar cookie). Then, the next time a negative episode strikes, all you need to do is to remind the child about the happy moment (ice cream or blue sugar cookie), and tell the child: "Sometimes life is tough. Sometimes life is fun." There is no need to explain or lecture the child at the moment of negativity. There is no need to talk about it, at all. That's not the right moment. The problem is on the adults' side: when adults see the children happy and having fun, adults never remember to talk to the children about the bad moments. This is especially true for non-verbal children. Why? Because adults never drew pictures when the bad moments stroke. So, of course, when the happy moments come, the adults have no way to talk to the children (they are non-verbal, remember?)

So, the short recommendation is: (a) draw pictures, and keep record of the bad moments, and then the good moments (b) establish a space-time wormhole tunnel between the good and bad moments.

Here are is the drawing I made to address Mindy's cringing in school when she was younger. I explained to her about it when we were having ice cream. Always good to have a smartphone to draw pictures. (If not, pen and paper napkin are also fine). I redrew and edited the image at home afterwards, and showed her also at bedtime.
Image
I laminated and taped a small image of Mindy having ice cream, on a corner of her table in school. So the teacher could simply point to the image if there were any negative moments. See, it was perfectly fine for other students to look at this picture. It was a happy picture.
Image


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08 Jun 2017, 9:16 am

Would it help if young autistics were rewarded for being "good enough?" It is hard to sort out mere words. They are important but confusing with all the lies one hears. Concrete actions, on the other hand, may get the point across better.



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08 Jun 2017, 10:22 am

BTDT wrote:
Would it help if young autistics were rewarded for being "good enough?"

Nope. Punishment and reward are for raising neurotypical children.

Bob Dylan had to be dragged into accepting his Nobel Prize. (He finally delivered his Nobel Prize lecture, via recording, a few days ago... 6 days before the official deadline.) Grigori Perelman refused Fields Medal and declined the 1-million-US-dollar Millenium Prize (and preferred to be poor and live in a small apartment with his mom). By now people should know that autistic children don't like to be manipulated.


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08 Jun 2017, 4:09 pm

I'm 43 and I feel I have to be perfect now. When I was a little girl it wasn't that much of a problem because it was normal and okay for kids to make mistakes sometimes due to them still learning. Only sometimes, though. People never stop learning no matter what age, but when I got older it was like making mistakes is the worst thing in the world, and I would become anxious and have trouble answering when someone asked me a question I was afraid I'd answer wrong. When you're a teen or an adult making mistakes could end up failing out of school, getting fired or demoted at work or ruining or ending someone else's life. I didn't just worry about mistakes I thought I *was* a mistake and I was terrible at almost anything, and therefore the most imperfect human being either. And online people are not very forgiving. They call you an idiot because you absent-mindedly typed the wrong year in one one of your comments, and even when I look at my older posts on WP and see how many words I've spelled wrong or left out entirely I feel like a moron. :(



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08 Jun 2017, 4:40 pm

eikonabridge wrote:
BTDT wrote:
Would it help if young autistics were rewarded for being "good enough?"

Nope. Punishment and reward are for raising neurotypical children.


This is why ABA-esue techniques didn't work for me. Once the "rewards" stopped, so did the desired behavior. Nothing stuck once the rewards went away. I never understood the concept of having to earn so many plastic chips in exchange for something. I worked SO hard to try to get the 5 inch plush cat....only to find out I had to earn like 50 plastic chips before I got the cat and the plastic chip thing failed. When I was making up my OWN goals, by myself, I was getting flack for them by my own mother about how they would be "impossible" for me and how I should basically just give up.


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08 Jun 2017, 5:13 pm

I have to be perfect now as well. Any day that passes by with things left undone, an "I don't feel up to it," or a mistake is one more day that I don't get my life back. I can't have many more failures, "off days," or any of that B.S. I am a good 30 years behind developmentally and I fear dying with many things left undone.



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08 Jun 2017, 7:53 pm

Looking back, I'd have to say that I did work on getting perfect test scores, which certainly helped me get the job I currently have. My employer has its own aptitude test to see if you really know our business. I think I still hold the all time high score on it. :D



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09 Jun 2017, 8:47 am

I find gardening and home maintenance to be useful in learning the concept of "good enough." Good luck trying to grow lots of flowering plants and a nice lawn without any weeds!



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09 Jun 2017, 5:12 pm

My son wants to be a youtube star and really believes it but has zero interest in the work it takes to make it happen. I've even let him try out a couple of videos and he admits it's hard but he still says he can do it. I try to be supportive but he really hates the work and if you tell him he has to put in a lot of effort he gets upset. Poor kiddo wants it so bad.