Question Hello Islamism risen in the past 20 years because t

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mikecartwright
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15 May 2017, 2:28 am

Hi my question is that I have heard and read that Islamism risen in the past 20 years because the Cold War ended could there some truth in this what I mean by that is because it seems during the Cold War because the Western Media starting to claim Communism/Socialism/Marxism is dead it used to be that Youths/Younger People if they wanted radical/revolutionary change a better society that they turned to supporting the Left when I say the Left I don't mean Democrats or Liberals/Progressives or Social Democrats/Democratic Socialists like Bernie Sanders who just want to reform Capitalism I mean Marxists and Communists revolutionary Socialists anyways now a days since people think Communism is dead and the Soviet Union came apart and the Cold War is over it seems some not all but some Youths who want revolutionary change want to be seen as cool or rebels in society convert to Islam and become Islamists even Terrorists or you have young Muslims to to turn to Islamism to feel that void I just believe if the Soviet Union was still on this Earth that many of these youths younger people both Non Muslims and Muslims would turn to to Socialism and Marxism for answers and join a Communist Party/Socialist Party/Marxist Political Parties and be Pro Working Class Pro Worker for the Workers Pro Labor Or Trade Unions it does seem that before the 1980s that the Arab/Muslim World was Secular in fact the PLO was supported by the Soviet Union and other Marxists and Communists I think I read the PLO had Marxists as members like the popular front for the liberation of Palestine the point Im making is I don't agree with Right Wingers that believe Islam/Muslims are all Radical Islamists like ISIS that can never be changed or reform because the West has played a big role in the rise of Political Islamists the CIA helped the Muslim Brotherhood since they thought Islamists would be a ally during the Cold War or the CIA funding the Islamists like Bin Laden in Afghanistan what what became the Taliban or Mujahideen Steven Emerson Daniel Pipes and Frank Gaffney among others admit this Gamal Abdel Nasser I think promoted what he called Arab Socialism like Malcolm X the Black Nationalist who left the Nation of Islam and became a Sunni Orthodox Muslim because he saw White Muslims and Muslims of all Races in Mecca he said Islam would end Racism and White Supremacy and promote Universal Brotherhood it seems that in the 1950s 1960s and 1970s that the Muslim World was more Secular than today for the most part Islamists back than were a tiny minority with very little support in fact Nasser jailed the Muslim Brother leaders like Sayyid Qutb even before 911 2001 I never heard anyone talk about Islamists or Sharia Law or a Caliphate I believe the Muslim and Arab World has turned to Political Islamism for many reasons one reason could be because of Western Foreign Policy the economy in the Islamic World poverty in many places and the fall of the Soviet Union who supported Secular and Nationalist causes in the Muslim world also because the Arab Nations lost to Israel in 1967 and 1973 and the Islamic Scholars told Muslims that Islam is the answer also the Cia is the reason why Iran turned to Islamism given what the West did to Iran in 1953 many Right Wingers call the War on Terrorism the New Cold War sorry if my post is so long I just had a lot to say anyways what does everyone think anyone agree thank you for your time ?




First off, I do not have an opposition to Islam. After watching a recent documentary, it was mentioned that Islam increased in Tajikistan after the fall of the Soviet Union, so I began to think about the effects of religious choice after years of being forced in atheism. Does anyone have a more historical context about the evolution of religion in this region?

It's not necessarily accurate to say it gave way to a rise in Islam, but the increasing Islamization of societies in the Arab and Muslim world is at least in part linked to the Cold War. The very short version is that in the 60s, at the height of Nasserism in Egypt and the formation of the United Arab Republic between Egypt and Syria, the US was far more worried about communism in the Middle East than it was about Islamism. As a result, the US supported a sort of incubator of Islamism in the Gulf, especially in Saudi. Islamists fleeing Syria and Nasser's Egypt fled to Saudi, where they found extensive Saudi and American political patronage and money. That movement grew throughout the 1960s, and then by the early 70s, when all the Arab communist regimes had collapsed, these newly empowered and rich Islamist ideologues, businessmen, thinkers, etc. flowed back out of the Gulf to their countries of origin, especially Egypt. President Sadat in Egypt greatly relaxed the state's stance toward Islamists and the Muslim Brotherhood (at least compared to Nasser) and also began liberalizing the economy. As such, when all these Islamists returned to Egypt, they had far more latitude to operate Islamist groups and also many more avenues for making money. That was one of the principal causes of the Islamization of Egyptian society. Along with the fact that when Sadat (and Mubarak and Sisi) began this neoliberal remaking of Egypt's economy, it greatly exacerbated both urban and rural poverty and also removed state subsidies that had been supporting the poor, and Islamist charities stepped into that void, wielding their newfound power and money to feed, clothe, and educate the poor while also pushing their slogan: al-Islam huwwa al-hal -- Islam is the solution.

TL;DR - All of the above is a roundabout way of saying that the rise of societal Islamization in the Middle East is tangentially connected to the USSR in that the West's efforts to bring down the USSR often involved bolstering Islamists.
Source: MA in Arab Studies

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Last edited by mikecartwright on 15 May 2017, 3:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

ltcvnzl
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15 May 2017, 2:37 am

I believe that islamism risen because of the end of cold war, and there is some studies that talk about it (see: clash of civilizations).


society is moved by conflict, and for a conflict, you need an antagonizer. when communism falls, you create a certain homogeneity in western world, so it's time to find a contrast point to feed this conflict, and boosting this contrast is important for both sides, to justify the conflict.



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15 May 2017, 8:39 am

The Iranian Revolution which started modern "jihadism" type terrorism occurred in 1978 during the cold war.


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BaronHarkonnen85
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15 May 2017, 9:26 pm

Multiculturalism is a failure. There is a culture war between the West and Islam in its current form. It's one of the reasons nation-building in Muslim countries doesn't work. Islam is a political religion. Islamists will demand the submission of the civilian government.

Just look at how Turkey is an utter failure.


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15 May 2017, 10:23 pm

BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:
Multiculturalism is a failure. There is a culture war between the West and Islam in its current form. It's one of the reasons nation-building in Muslim countries doesn't work. Islam is a political religion. Islamists will demand the submission of the civilian government.

Just look at how Turkey is an utter failure.


I live in a very culturally diverse, and relatively peaceful area, and so I don't see how your statement that multiculturalism is a failure holds true in any universal sense.

I also think it ignores the diverse cultural backgrounds that the ancestors of modern Americans hail from, and the cultural diversity among Americans in general.



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16 May 2017, 10:03 am

Chronos wrote:
BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:
Multiculturalism is a failure. There is a culture war between the West and Islam in its current form. It's one of the reasons nation-building in Muslim countries doesn't work. Islam is a political religion. Islamists will demand the submission of the civilian government.

Just look at how Turkey is an utter failure.


I live in a very culturally diverse, and relatively peaceful area, and so I don't see how your statement that multiculturalism is a failure holds true in any universal sense.

I also think it ignores the diverse cultural backgrounds that the ancestors of modern Americans hail from, and the cultural diversity among Americans in general.


When I speak of culture, I'm talking about how one dresses or whether you eat with sticks or a fork. I'm talking about fundamental values. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the other cultures of your area don't have radically different views on women or think that their religious moral code should be the law of the land.


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17 May 2017, 12:58 am

Your first paragraph is just one big block of unpunctuated text. It's unreadable! Please fix it if you can.



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17 May 2017, 1:01 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The Iranian Revolution which started modern "jihadism" type terrorism occurred in 1978 during the cold war.


Jihadists are overwhelmingly Sunni, not Shi'ite, and most of them are also Wahabists. This is one problem you should not try to pin on Iran. Try blaming Saudi Arabia, they are the ones behind all of this.



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17 May 2017, 3:40 am

BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:
Multiculturalism is a failure. There is a culture war between the West and Islam in its current form. It's one of the reasons nation-building in Muslim countries doesn't work. Islam is a political religion. Islamists will demand the submission of the civilian government.

Just look at how Turkey is an utter failure.


I live in a very culturally diverse, and relatively peaceful area, and so I don't see how your statement that multiculturalism is a failure holds true in any universal sense.

I also think it ignores the diverse cultural backgrounds that the ancestors of modern Americans hail from, and the cultural diversity among Americans in general.


When I speak of culture, I'm talking about how one dresses or whether you eat with sticks or a fork. I'm talking about fundamental values. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the other cultures of your area don't have radically different views on women or think that their religious moral code should be the law of the land.


Don't you think it would be more correct to say "elements within conservative Islam are incompatible with modern western ideals"? rather than make such a broad statement as "multiculturalism has failed"?



BaronHarkonnen85
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18 May 2017, 3:31 pm

Chronos wrote:
BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:
Multiculturalism is a failure. There is a culture war between the West and Islam in its current form. It's one of the reasons nation-building in Muslim countries doesn't work. Islam is a political religion. Islamists will demand the submission of the civilian government.

Just look at how Turkey is an utter failure.


I live in a very culturally diverse, and relatively peaceful area, and so I don't see how your statement that multiculturalism is a failure holds true in any universal sense.

I also think it ignores the diverse cultural backgrounds that the ancestors of modern Americans hail from, and the cultural diversity among Americans in general.


When I speak of culture, I'm talking about how one dresses or whether you eat with sticks or a fork. I'm talking about fundamental values. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the other cultures of your area don't have radically different views on women or think that their religious moral code should be the law of the land.


Don't you think it would be more correct to say "elements within conservative Islam are incompatible with modern western ideals"? rather than make such a broad statement as "multiculturalism has failed"?


Depends on how semantical you want to be. Most of the people who advocate multiculturalism are cultural relativists who refuse to criticise Islam or admit that it needs reform. I guess it's more apt to criticise cultural relativism.

Also, the attempts by governments to impose multiculturalism or "cultural diversity" seems counterproductive to me, and I view it as illiberal to do so.


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19 May 2017, 7:48 pm

The answer to the question is neither "yes" nor "no".

We segued out of the Cold War, and segued into the current "wars on terrorism" like they were two love ballads on the radio overlapping for several seconds.

The end of one both roughly coincided in time with rise of the other, and is vaugly related to the rise of the other. But you cant say that the end of the cold war flat out "caused Islamism, and Jiihadism".

During the Fifties, Sixties, and Seventies, the Middle East was ruled by various brutal dictators. But they were all secular, and all followed the Soviet model of dictatorship. After 1990 that model no longer exists.

In 1979 Iran became the first modern Islamist regime. And it did predate the end of Communism in circa 1990.

But on the other hand the global terrorism groups (mostly Sunni, and not Shiite) were spawned by the last act of the Cold War:the USA sneaking arms into Afganistan in the 1980's to help the insurgency there against the Soviet occupation (Vietnam in reverse). Thats how Bin Ladin got his start.



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19 May 2017, 8:24 pm

People often forget the fact that the term 'terrorism' was actually coined during the first decade of the 20th (not 21st) century, and that one person's 'freedom fighter' is another person's 'terrorist'. It's all about perspective. The bad guys are the terrorists, and the good guys the freedom fighters. It's sickeningly hypocritical, but that's just the reality of it.



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20 May 2017, 7:19 am

Lintar wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The Iranian Revolution which started modern "jihadism" type terrorism occurred in 1978 during the cold war.


Jihadists are overwhelmingly Sunni, not Shi'ite, and most of them are also Wahabists. This is one problem you should not try to pin on Iran. Try blaming Saudi Arabia, they are the ones behind all of this.


Um, yeah. The problem is, is that we are the ones who are funding Saudi Arabia's Royal family to keep both their system, and their Wahhabism/Salafism in power in Saudi Arabia. At the same time, they are using their oil money to fund the construction of Wahhabi Mosques abroad, which is essentially importing the jihad ideology, and creating a fifth column of jihadis as we have seen.


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