Fox News commentator uses kid as example of snowflakes

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rats_and_cats
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17 May 2017, 6:15 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Redxk wrote:
I don't understand. I've never heard people call each other snowflakes. What does that even mean?


It's a term used mostly by the Alt Right, and various other right wing populists to denigrate their opponents for allegedly being too fragile and sensitive. If truth be known, their hero, Trump, is the biggest snowflake of them all, as he flies off the handle in a twitter storm whenever anyone criticizes him, or just looks cross eyed at him.


It's not just the "alt-right." I use it (sparingly) and I'm just a smidge right of center (although with how far left everybody else is I'm basically a fascist by comparison). And it's used for people who were obviously never told "no" as a child. There are people at my school who want to fire the very good professors we have that are here because they are world-renowned, just because they're not black and they think we should have more black professors. Even though half of the professors here are already non-white. Or that, even though there's already Affirmative Action, they need to prioritize accepting black students more. In an area that is mostly white. And despite it being a mostly-white area, the college is already super racially diverse compare to the rest of the area. Also, somebody writing "Trump 2016" in chalk on the sidewalk is now a hate crime. So yes, I will use the term "snowflake" to refer to people like that. I have no problem with liberals as long as they're rational people. Actually, I don't like extremists on either end. And not everybody who voted for Trump worships him. It was really a "pick which snake you want to be bitten by" election.



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17 May 2017, 8:14 am

androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
A kid can't be taught not to have impaired spatial awareness. You can't teach someone to change or repair their neurology.

I'm not saying the impaired spatial awareness will disappear. I am saying that one needs to learn to cope and compensate for the impairment. Hopefully the kid will learn from this and know how to react next time, which is what he should be encouraged to do. Not running around pestering an adult with nonsense.

EzraS wrote:
Your attitude with this and other situations, seems to be a kid should know better than to be autistic, and it indicates a woeful lack of knowledge or understanding of autism. Not to mention how provoking it always is.

Your attitude indicates you seem to think autistic people are incapable of learning and self-improvement. Having spent my life as an autistic person, and hence, knowing a bit about it, I can assure you that both are possible, even for your hapless autistic stereotype.


You're still confusing NT behavior learning with autistic neurology. Coping and compensating may or may not take hold, when it comes to neurological disorder. Believe me, I wish it worked that way all the time, but it doesn't. Some stuff or a lot of stuff depending on severity, is permanent.

I'm sure there have been a great many people who have wished I could learn to behave better in public, to be less detracting and annoying. And I wish for it too, but it doesn't work that way.

There's a number of things about my autism that will likely never change, despite having experienced 14 years of the best quality special education and occupational therapy available for autistic children. And I have received all that special ed and OT alongside dozens of other autistic kids who are the same or worse off.

Your assessments resemble that of the general public who don't know what they're talking about and that is why you have received so much opposition to what you've said along these lines. Maybe it's based on stuff you were told about yourself as a child by adults who didn't know any better.



androbot01
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17 May 2017, 8:27 am

So, here's my question: Theoretically, is a kid capable of remembering such an incident as this in which his space is invaded by the expansive gesture of another and he fails to move out of the way? I'm not suggesting that he might not be startled to inaction the first time something like this happens, but I am saying that autism does not prevent him from learning to modify his behaviour for the next time it happens.

In this instance, the mother is encouraging him not to learn, and further to expect that the world will change to accommodate him. Both bad lessons.

And stop saying I don't have autism.



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17 May 2017, 8:54 am

It's just a kid who got a bit too full of himself. But, he is *just* a kid. They really overreacted to a little kid who got a bit cocky.

If the kid hated touch that much then what was he placed there for?


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17 May 2017, 9:47 am

rats_and_cats wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Redxk wrote:
I don't understand. I've never heard people call each other snowflakes. What does that even mean?


It's a term used mostly by the Alt Right, and various other right wing populists to denigrate their opponents for allegedly being too fragile and sensitive. If truth be known, their hero, Trump, is the biggest snowflake of them all, as he flies off the handle in a twitter storm whenever anyone criticizes him, or just looks cross eyed at him.


It's not just the "alt-right." I use it (sparingly) and I'm just a smidge right of center (although with how far left everybody else is I'm basically a fascist by comparison). And it's used for people who were obviously never told "no" as a child. There are people at my school who want to fire the very good professors we have that are here because they are world-renowned, just because they're not black and they think we should have more black professors. Even though half of the professors here are already non-white. Or that, even though there's already Affirmative Action, they need to prioritize accepting black students more. In an area that is mostly white. And despite it being a mostly-white area, the college is already super racially diverse compare to the rest of the area. Also, somebody writing "Trump 2016" in chalk on the sidewalk is now a hate crime. So yes, I will use the term "snowflake" to refer to people like that. I have no problem with liberals as long as they're rational people. Actually, I don't like extremists on either end. And not everybody who voted for Trump worships him. It was really a "pick which snake you want to be bitten by" election.

Snowflake. I'm not sure if I've ever actually called someone a snowflake, though I've definitely thought it plenty of times. To me it's a play on "special snowflake." That wording people use to say everyone is special and unique, because every snowflake is unique and so is every person. And there's nothing wrong with that, in fact I see that as a healthy mindset to have, as it means you respect yourself and see more value in others. For me to actually use it as a pejoritive, the person has to appear to believe they are special but others are not. SJWs fall into this category because they only care about themselves and those who's interests align with their own. And it's f**k everyone else. They want everyone else essentially to fall in line or disappear. They want to be on top so they can make this happen and actively try to make it happen. By getting people fired from their jobs, by punching people in the face, by shouting down voices, by pressuring people and organisations to bend to their will. The fragility thing seems to go hand in hand with many people like this, but it is not a component needed for someone to be a snowflake.

Another example would be trans people demanding acceptance. As opposed to tolerance. No one has a right to that, you can't make people like you and say they're terrible people if they don't. That is an example of people thinking they're special and others are not. Are they going to then accept everyone else who wants them to? No, they're not.



EzraS
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17 May 2017, 10:07 am

androbot01 wrote:
So, here's my question: Theoretically, is a kid capable of remembering such an incident as this in which his space is invaded by the expansive gesture of another and he fails to move out of the way? I'm not suggesting that he might not be startled to inaction the first time something like this happens, but I am saying that autism does not prevent him from learning to modify his behaviour for the next time it happens.


Not if it doesn't register. Not if that neurological connection can't be formed. Or not if the connection can be formed but not maintained. Some things can't be taught to someone who has a neurological disorder. There are some things that can't be controlled by an individual with a neurological disorder.

androbot01 wrote:
In this instance, the mother is encouraging him not to learn, and further to expect that the world will change to accommodate him. Both bad lessons.


That's not the way it works. My parents can't teach me to have spacial awareness. They can intervene by guiding me or acting as a shield to prevent situations, but they can't teach me spacial awareness. Nor can they teach me not to involuntary react certain ways to certain things. The part of my brain that learns and the part where spacial awareness is supposed to exist, don't connect with each other.

androbot01 wrote:
And stop saying I don't have autism.


Don't put your words in my mouth. The only one who said anything about you not having autism in this thread, is you just then.



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17 May 2017, 10:31 am

EzraS wrote:
Nor can they teach me not to involuntary react certain ways to certain things. The part of my brain that learns and the part where spacial awareness is supposed to exist, don't connect with each other.

It absolutely would not be involuntary. It would be a learned behaviour. The way it seems to me, is that he interpreted Pence's gesture as aggressive, but in reality it was not. He would have to learn that when someone makes such a gesture it is okay to react to it, it is not a threat. This is conscious learning and there is nothing instinctive in it.

Again, praising the child's pursuit of an apology teaches him that he was indeed wronged. But he wasn't.



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17 May 2017, 10:42 am

EzraS wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
The kid didn't know how to get out of the way. I saw his Mom on CNN. She verified that he does have autism and she was pissed at FOX.

But seriously, kid, back up.


Some kids with autism, like me for instance, have impairments regarding spatial awareness. Backing up, moving aside and the like don't register very well, if at all.

Stop with the excuses and suck it up snowflake. Autism is just an excuse to be different. :roll:

:P


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17 May 2017, 11:06 am

androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Nor can they teach me not to involuntary react certain ways to certain things. The part of my brain that learns and the part where spacial awareness is supposed to exist, don't connect with each other.

It absolutely would not be involuntary. It would be a learned behaviour.


Learning requires a connection. Possibly the reason why I have to keep telling you the same thing over and over, is because you're not forming a connection and it's not registering.

androbot01 wrote:
He would have to learn that when someone makes such a gesture it is okay to react to it, it is not a threat. This is conscious learning and there is nothing instinctive in it.


But that's not the case if someone's brain misinterprets something as a threat. A neurological processing disorder isn't the same thing as conscious behavior.

androbot01 wrote:
Again, praising the child's pursuit of an apology teaches him that he was indeed wronged. But he wasn't.


Agreed, he should be told that his brain misinterpreted the situation, if he's able to grasp that. But where was he being praised for his reaction?

Now it could be that none of that applies to him. But when it comes to autism, I try to take stuff like that into consideration first.



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17 May 2017, 11:17 am

So the kid has been learning social skills so I think him going after Pence telling him he owes him an apology is definitely learned behavior because that is what he was probably been told himself when he hits someone even if it's by accident. I think that is common in autism. They are so adherence to the rules and will make sure others follow them too. So Fox should have been reporting it as a cute story about how kids sometimes know more than adults do about how to behave and adults can learn from kids sometimes. It's especially cute when your child corrects you about how old they are when you lie about their age so you wouldn't have to pay their admission but if the boy in the video was four years old or five, he would have gotten away with it and not be called a snowflake. It would have been seen as a cute story. But why isn't it cute when an older child corrects other adults about their behavior? Why is it seen as negative?


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EzraS
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17 May 2017, 11:18 am

GoonSquad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
The kid didn't know how to get out of the way. I saw his Mom on CNN. She verified that he does have autism and she was pissed at FOX.

But seriously, kid, back up.


Some kids with autism, like me for instance, have impairments regarding spatial awareness. Backing up, moving aside and the like don't register very well, if at all.

Stop with the excuses and suck it up snowflake. Autism is just an excuse to be different. :roll:

:P


Shhhh don't blow this for me. I've had people kowtowing to me my whole life over this and I like it.



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17 May 2017, 11:21 am

Redxk wrote:
I don't understand. I've never heard people call each other snowflakes. What does that even mean?


It's a derogatory word and it's also used for gaslighting. But sometimes it means a kid who can do no wrong or people who want special privileges and special treatment and that they are the exception to the rules and the rules don't apply to them. I have never actually heard anyone use this term in real life, only online.


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17 May 2017, 11:24 am

League_Girl wrote:
So the kid has been learning social skills so I think him going after Pence telling him he owes him an apology is definitely learned behavior because that is what he was probably been told himself when he hits someone even if it's by accident. I think that is common in autism. They are so adherence to the rules and will make sure others follow them too.


Now that's an excellent theory.

League_Girl wrote:
So Fox should have been reporting it as a cute story about how kids sometimes know more than adults do about how to behave and adults can learn from kids sometimes. It's especially cute when your child corrects you about how old they are when you lie about their age so you wouldn't have to pay their admission but if the boy in the video was four years old or five, he would have gotten away with it and not be called a snowflake. It would have been seen as a cute story. But why isn't it cute when an older child corrects other adults about their behavior? Why is it seen as negative?


Good question.



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17 May 2017, 11:25 am

EzraS wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
The kid didn't know how to get out of the way. I saw his Mom on CNN. She verified that he does have autism and she was pissed at FOX.

But seriously, kid, back up.
Backing up, moving aside and the like don't register very well, if at all.

Yeah, I know. Same here. Like I said, kid needs to learn to back up.

He was being a snowflake. He missed a cue to back up (because he has autism.) The solution to this is not that he should never be called upon to back up, it is that he should learn to do so.


A kid can't be taught not to have impaired spatial awareness. You can't teach someone to change or repair their neurology. Your attitude with this and other situations, seems to be a kid should know better than to be autistic, and it indicates a woeful lack of knowledge or understanding of autism. Not to mention how provoking it always is.



Well I think they can learn to not stand so close to people if they can't respond quick enough to back away from someone when they are about to bump them with their arm. I am slow to respond too and I know full well I shouldn't be standing so close so I don't even demand an apology.


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17 May 2017, 11:50 am

Now here's the thing, theories aside. The full video coverage of this in no way shows any bad behavior from the kid whatsoever. He was smiling and gave Pence a high five.

This is what happened as I see it, and anyone who's ever been around little kids knows how this works.

It was noisy and Pence couldn't hear the little kid and therefore wasn't responding, so the little kid started following him around repeating the same thing. Little kids always do this. They always keep saying the same thing over and over until they get acknowledged. That's all it was. Typical normal little kid behavior.

When Pence finally heard the kid he seemed very fatherly and said he was sorry the way dad's do over something stupid. It was like a really sweet and tinder looking moment. Now I'm not that great at reading facial expression, but it was blatantly obvious this kid wasn't angry at all and wasn't being obnoxious. He was just being pesky like any other little kid.



Last edited by EzraS on 17 May 2017, 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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17 May 2017, 11:59 am

EzraS wrote:
Now here's the thing, theories aside. The full video coverage of this in no way shows any bad behavior from the kid whatsoever. He was smiling and gave Pence a high five.

This is what happened as I see it, and anyone who's ever been around little kids knows how this works.

It was noisy and Pence couldn't hear the little kid and therefore wasn't responding, so the little kid started following him around repeating the same thing. Little kids always do this. They always keep saying the same thing over and over until they get acknowledged. That's all it was. Typical normal little kid behavior.

When Pence finally heard the kid he seemed very fatherly and said he was sorry the way dad's do over something stupid. It was like a really sweet and tinder looking moment. Now I'm not that great at reading facial expression, but it was blatantly obvious this kid wasn't angry at all and wasn't being obnoxious.



Except the kid was ten so that is way too old for that behavior but autism is a developmental disorder so kids with it will be behind socially and act younger than their age. It's pretty tough growing up with immature emotions and social skills and always getting yelled at about it and being told you are acting (insert younger age here) and being told to grow up and being told to quit whining or crying and being invalidated and being told to stop. That was my life. Then my mom wondered why I had anxiety by 6th grade about how to act and not knowing how a 6th grader should be acting. But all that stopped after my diagnoses in 6th grade.


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