Compliments are bad when given to women? Article

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19 May 2017, 3:24 pm

^ What feminism should encourage too, is to encourage women that it's ok if they date non-working men, to accept the househusband role, to accept dating younger and shorter men, to pay for dinner/vacation sometimes, to lessen this fixation that their man must be 'better' than themselves in almost everything (better income, older, stronger, taller, better educated...etc than her...)...to train their sons in houseworks.
If that will never happen, if your (not you specifically, but many women in general) 'mating selection' tendency doesn't change and doesn't become more egalitarian, then men will always have the upper hand in finance and power.

For example, one of the reasons why there's pay gap is..... the housewives! or to be more accurate, the enormous imbalance of numbers of between housewives (30% to 50% of women in some societies) and househusbands (~1 to 2% even in most advanced societies), there's a whole body of research on that, it's also the reason why there's pay gap between married men and single men too - look it up.

seaweed
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19 May 2017, 3:44 pm

sly279 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

sly279 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

I can't speak for every woman but if I was having sex and the condom broke and me and my boyfriend noticed, I'd get a morning after pill. If it wasn't so obvious the condom had failed and we missed the window of time for the morning after pill then yeah I'd schedule an abortion asap. So chances are it would occur before the fertilized egg becomes a fetus. If people want to prevent 'baby murder' then they should want to ensure women have access to birth control, morning after pills and safe access to abortions and encouragement to get it done asap. Not try and give women second thoughts so they draw it out even longer allowing more development to take place.

I'm not opposed to access, but I don't think abortion should be used in place of birth control like many do. Having abortion after abortion after abortion. Which is quite harmful and even life threatening to the woman.

Personally if I had a gf(funny I know

) and she got an abortion of our child, the relationship would be over and I'd want nothing to do with her again. Abortion is a tough issues for me.

I just don't think that many people use it 'in place of birth control' sure I have heard some people say that but I've never heard anyone talk about abortion super casual like something you go do all the time. I've heard people who don't want kids say they won't hesitate to get one asap. I agree it should not be in place of birth control but I am not convinced that is how most women use it. I mean how many women actually refuse to use birth control and get abortion after abortion, and how much is propaganda using the worst case examples to generalize? I mean if women do, do that then I think that should be addressed somehow as that is just irresponsible. But I just am not sure how widespread it is...Id think most would want to get it over with and not have a repeat of it.

As for the rest I'd say that is why it is best to get in relationships with people on the same page, neither me or my boyfriend want kids so we'd opt to abort the pregnancy. Of course it is a much more difficult issue if one party wants a child and the other doesn't, but I say it is important to discuss that beforehand and determine if you're on the same page or not.

I said many. Even 1% is like 1.5 million give or take. So if say 25% of women did that's a lot. I've meet some and seen others online who have sex no condoms or birth control and just get another abortion if they get pregnant.

Have you looked into that thing they implant . Prevents pregnancy for like 7-10 years I think, or there's more permanent options. I'd rather just use condoms and birth control. I don't know if I want kids anymore, I'm not opposed to it if it happen, I'd roll with the punches of raising a child. I doubt any woman who actually wants kids will ever date me given my worthless ness. So it's quite likely in the unlikely situation I got a gf, any pregnancy would be unplanned.

i agree with sweetleaf. there is probably a rare case here and there of a woman who uses abortion like birth control but there are so many factors preventing women from doing that. firstly, a single abortion costs anywhere from 300-600$ whereas birth control options are way less expensive, and there are lots of places where one can get free condoms. nicer condoms are maybe 15-25$ for a box. morning after pills run anywhere from 30-50$ each. personally i can't be on hormonal birth control due to medical issues and have been considering a nonhormonal IUD (which scares me for sensory reasons but still), and even that is about 300$ for 5 years. i am also a huge supporter of increasing research and awareness for the future of male birth control options.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... -is-coming

secondly, abortions f*****g SUCK, no pun intended. they hurt like hell and then at least for medical (idk about surgical) abortions, bleeding for months straight afterwards is not uncommon. there are acute health risks as well, which you mentioned. part of the abortion process is taking antibiotics! why subject oneself to that instead of using more practical birth control methods?

thirdly, for many women abortions are very emotionally difficult to go through, and depending on her surroundings, socially scarring, or secretive and shameful. perhaps it would make more sense to try to do something to intervene if a woman has had more than one abortion in a couple years or some amount of time like that, because that could either mean she has had SUPER bad luck (most unlikely), is not using birth control methods correctly or responsibly, or (most likely), she is being abused. but clinics do set up women with contraceptive care as part of the outpatient process of the abortion as well as counselling. they also ask if the father is aware and supportive of her choice to abort, and if she is being abused prior to and after the abortion, but i suspect its common for women who are to say that they aren't.

The_Face_of_Boo
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19 May 2017, 3:56 pm

A male pill will give us a power we always lack, I am all for it.

Chronos
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19 May 2017, 4:01 pm

sly279 wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

) and she got an abortion of our child, the relationship would be over and I'd want nothing to do with her again. Abortion is a tough issues for me.

This idea that women get abortion after abortion after abortion as a form of casual birth control is probably not more than an idea. Abortions are expensive and, from my understanding, can be fairly invasive, uncomfortable procedures. If the pregnancy is far enough along, it can take multiple days to perform. Most women I know who have had abortions had them because the man backed out of the relationship after learning she was pregnant, and she did not feel she could carry the child to term or adequately raise the child as a single mother in the situation she was in, and none of these women did it on a whim. They all put a good deal of thought into their decision and all of them were a little sad that it was the best decision.

0_equals_true
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19 May 2017, 4:20 pm

As a man I found it hard to accept complements, but have become better at it. With giving complement I only do it when the word come out and I feel it, though if someone does give a complement you want to return it. I don't always express my affection in words so I make that know.

I suggest focusing on meaningful gestures not just complements.

People who are into eachother generally complement each other and can't help it. It is an exchange. If you are just getting thank you after a complement probably best to ease off, and just get to know them see if they reciprocate.

Complement should not be purely physical, however that is part of it.

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19 May 2017, 4:55 pm

seaweed wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

Feminism is not inherently negative. I mean, we can debate our differences at different time/place, but I can always get behind something that is helpful and empowering to women and NOT a man-hating echo chamber. What's unfortunate for feminism is MUCH of the dialogue out there that anyone ever hears about is precisely that: Men are scum, women have the right to murder their babies if they want to.

Do you ever hear about feminists who actually DISAGREE, for instance, with the right of a woman to an abortion? Or those who AGREE that it's perfectly ok for women to keep house for their husbands and homeschool their kids if they want to? Or that anything resembling patriarchy can ever be empowering for women? I ask because those are views that are within the realm of possibility--it's just you rarely actually hear those kinds of views, whether it's the attention-getting of the rabid radicals out there or whether it's media-driven. You can't possibly have so much as the tiniest intellectual spark in so much as a single brain cell if you're more the milk the cows and knit sweaters by the fire type who actually ENJOYS it. That's where all the reactionary semi-misogynist hostility comes from on WP. I contend that "feminism" as a term is really outdated and irrelevant.

And I think that way because rabid man-hating flies in the face of egalitarianism--thus consistent egalitarian feminism is too weak for those women to identify with it. But if feminism is defined by the man-haters, consistent egalitarian women wouldn't want to identify with it either. So I think "feminism" has largely run its course and is being replaced by something else--not "dead," just evolved. I see that as a good thing.

if a feminist is not also egalitarian they wouldn't fit into my feminism at least. but maybe you're right about the label having run its course. i have a hard time with change lol.
i also have resentment about unquestionably giving misandrist "feminists" this term which holds so much significance; all the hard work women have put into it, and what gave us the right to speak our minds in the first place.
there is absolutely a disparity between feminist and "feminist", anti-feminist and "anti-feminist". there is also then the disparity between feminism in the west and outside of western contexts, which makes it even harder to navigate.
i don't even care much for labels, but they are a useful tool and this label in particular has an important history and continued need, especially elsewhere in the world. whatever label needs to be used for the betterment gender equality in western contexts nowadays i would eventually be willing to secede into, but it would hurt. the problem with labels i guess, is that they are unregulated.

i haven't heard of feminists being against choice but choice is the key word. i have heard many feminists, including myself, advocate for women to choose what they want in their lives, whether that is being a stay at home wife or working, having children or not. the thing about abortion and choice is pro-choice means that if a woman has moral or whatever else problem with abortion, she is free to have those ideas and not get an abortion. but perhaps she supports other women getting an abortion if they don't share her same views. also you may be interested to know that when predominantly white women in the US were fighting for their reproductive rights, including the right to have abortions, many nonwhite women in the US were fighting for their right to not be forcibly, or coercively, sterilized. not a lot of people are aware of that.
http://www.albany.edu/celac/LRR%202010.pdf
the essay begins on pg. 85.

there is a concern i have with pro-life arguments..they say if the woman's life is at risk with the pregnancy or if she was raped, it's okay for her to have an abortion. but who gets to decide if a woman has really been raped or not? the court system? because rape cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute due to the nature of the crime. so then, if the case was not able to be proven, or if she was not able to bring it to court in the first place, does she then have to go through with the pregnancy, with her rapist out there, knowing she tried to put him in jail? sounds f****d up and dangerous. or what if the time it took to prove her case took longer than the window of time in which she could get an abortion? and then, lets say a woman could just be believed at the clinic if she says she was raped. then women would also be lying about being raped (although to no impact on the rapist or not-rapist) and murdering babies.

My wife actually holds more extreme views than I do, as in women should NEVER have the choice. I'm more of the rape/fatal to mother justifications. They don't like discussing rape on WP, so I'm not going too far down that road. But on the other side it becomes a self-defense argument.

With r*** and proving it, I prefer the Old Testament approach. Woman in a field is attacked, cries out, and no one hears, her word is good against her attacker. Even if she's lying, you still have the question of why a man isolated her in the first place, i.e. it could be reasonably assumed his intentions were poor in the first place. Fry him. If she just wanted him dead and he took care to avoid being alone with her, there would be numerous witnesses to refute her accusation. And if it could be proven by multiple witnesses she purposefully wrongfully accused him, lock her up.

The opposite would be true if she went to his home, because then it could be reasonably assumed HER intentions were foul. A r*** charge couldn't stand in that case.

If the laws were that tough with the understanding that the usual western burden of proof and due process fail to adequately address r*** charges, people would think a bit more carefully about decisions regarding MOOS.

Now, what does that have to do with abortion? Well, if she becomes pregnant and makes an accusation against an alleged attacker, then he'd get a similar sentence as manslaughter in addition to assault. If she does NOT choose abortion, but accuses him of assault, then it would be no different than the status quo. If she chooses neither, we have to assume that the act was consented to and at the very least he should pay child support.

I understand this is harsh on men, but maybe it should be. I feel very strongly about violence towards women. The ancients were right on this one.

Off-topic, but OT laws were amazingly favorable towards women in a time when most of the world considered women little more than chattel. Too bad those laws weren't consistently implemented (also evidenced in the Bible).

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20 May 2017, 3:55 pm

seaweed wrote:

there is a concern i have with pro-life arguments..they say if the woman's life is at risk with the pregnancy or if she was raped, it's okay for her to have an abortion. but who gets to decide if a woman has really been raped or not? the court system? because rape cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute due to the nature of the crime. so then, if the case was not able to be proven, or if she was not able to bring it to court in the first place, does she then have to go through with the pregnancy, with her rapist out there, knowing she tried to put him in jail? sounds f****d up and dangerous. or what if the time it took to prove her case took longer than the window of time in which she could get an abortion? and then, lets say a woman could just be believed at the clinic if she says she was raped. then women would also be lying about being raped (although to no impact on the rapist or not-rapist) and murdering babies.

That is part of why I don't think one should have to have been raped to get an abortion...though that certainly is a reason. Of course it would be a pretty bad system if you had to prove you've been raped to get an abortion...

Also though considering the vast majority of abortions occur early on like embryonic stage and earlier, and abortions past a certain amount of weeks(when the fetus becomes a baby) are not allowed aside from medical emergencies. How is the term 'baby murder' accurate to describe abortion? And what do you feel the alternative is...throw women in prison who don't want children? Force them into a care-home where people make sure they live in a way that will be conducive to having the baby? I could see adjusting the length of time abortions are allowed for, heavy encouragement of birth control use for those who don't want children, and if there really are women using abortion instead of birth control maybe they need it mandated that they must use birth control.

Repeated abortions could cause major health problems so yeah I can see a limit on how many abortions you can get..and even mandating that someone who keeps getting them get birth control and be monitored in some way to make sure they do or be sterilized for her own safety.

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20 May 2017, 9:39 pm

Just today, I agreed with a compliment my mother gave me, and she seemed a little taken aback.

sly279
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20 May 2017, 10:48 pm

Men who don't want their kids get thrown in prison. Just saying . I don't agree with either

The_Face_of_Boo
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21 May 2017, 2:09 am

The threads is about compliments, not about rape and abortions.

Chronos
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21 May 2017, 3:58 am

sly279 wrote:

Men who don't want their kids get thrown in prison. Just saying . I don't agree with either

People who owe child support and don't pay it get thrown in prison. The law makes no sex distinction in this matter. Men are disproportionately required to pay child support compared to women because men are disproportionately the primary wage earners and are more likely to out earn the woman. In instances where the woman is not the custodial parent, or there is joint custody but the woman had earned more than the man, the woman is required to pay child support.

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22 May 2017, 1:53 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

How is the term 'baby murder' accurate to describe abortion?

murdering babies is a belief-based word choice.
some people hold belief over science and stats, and so accuracy is a null argument.

(lying about being raped to murder babies?! the horror.
that's how i meant it anyways.)

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

The threads is about compliments, not about rape and abortions.

spooky!

AngelRho wrote:

They don't like discussing rape on WP, so I'm not going too far down that road.

why don't they like discussing rape on WP? (and, who likes discussing rape?) i get that it's a loaded topic and i apologize if i've made anyone feel uncomfortable. but not talking about it is a problem too.

i hear you, though. perhaps this is a conversation to be had elsewhere.

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22 May 2017, 4:02 pm

seaweed wrote:

Anything that attacks the status quo's version of 'perfect harmony' is an unwelcome talking point. Not enough people personally experience sexual assault, rape, or molestation: the vast majority of people have never experienced an event in which another person has complete control over them so they'd like to naively continue thinking it doesn't exist-- it's a coping mechanism for fear of the unknown and fear of no control.

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22 May 2017, 4:08 pm

I've experienced being molested by a man. So I know how it feels to be "under the control" of someone. Even though I was legally an adult at the time (I was 18).

I believe....that if men aren't allowed to give compliments to women (and vice versa)---that the world will become a less nice place.

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