2 Men in Indonesia Sentenced to Caning for Having Gay Sex

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white_as_snow
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18 May 2017, 7:19 am

Two men accused of having sex with each other were each sentenced on Wednesday to 85 lashes in public, the first case of people being punished for homosexuality in the Indonesian province of Aceh under a strict version of Shariah law.

The sentences alarmed rights activists, who called the punishment excessive and a dangerous turn of events in Aceh, a semiautonomous province that has imposed a strict version of Shariah, the legal code of Islam.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/worl ... .html?_r=0



BaronHarkonnen85
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18 May 2017, 3:22 pm

What do you expect from such a backwards culture?


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18 May 2017, 3:35 pm

Indonesia seems like a terrible place to live...execution for so much as possession of drugs, severe beatings that could result in death for gay sex what else do they got going on there? But that said its another example of why separation of state and religion is a good thing, it prevents archaic laws and sentences like this being justified in the name of religious law.

Hence why I find it disturbing there are government officials and such in the U.S even involved in the current administration trying to push for less separation of state and religion, and more religious influence in politics. If they get their way next thing you know we might end up with comparable biblical law. But seems some people can only see the problem of religious law if it's sharia law, when biblical law would be just as bad if not worse. I don't want that here...whether its sharia or biblical based.


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white_as_snow
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18 May 2017, 3:42 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Indonesia seems like a terrible place to live...execution for so much as possession of drugs, severe beatings that could result in death for gay sex what else do they got going on there? But that said its another example of why separation of state and religion is a good thing, it prevents archaic laws and sentences like this being justified in the name of religious law.

Hence why I find it disturbing there are government officials and such in the U.S even involved in the current administration trying to push for less separation of state and religion, and more religious influence in politics. If they get their way next thing you know we might end up with comparable biblical law. But seems some people can only see the problem of religious law if it's sharia law, when biblical law would be just as bad if not worse. I don't want that here...whether its sharia or biblical based.


This type of harsh religious laws have not existed in USA for a very very long time if ever, why would it happend in 2017? The western culture is very different. I dont think you have to be worried. At worst in USA you will see conservative laws like gay-couples are not allowed to be married and drive cars etc.



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18 May 2017, 4:02 pm

white_as_snow wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Indonesia seems like a terrible place to live...execution for so much as possession of drugs, severe beatings that could result in death for gay sex what else do they got going on there? But that said its another example of why separation of state and religion is a good thing, it prevents archaic laws and sentences like this being justified in the name of religious law.

Hence why I find it disturbing there are government officials and such in the U.S even involved in the current administration trying to push for less separation of state and religion, and more religious influence in politics. If they get their way next thing you know we might end up with comparable biblical law. But seems some people can only see the problem of religious law if it's sharia law, when biblical law would be just as bad if not worse. I don't want that here...whether its sharia or biblical based.


This type of harsh religious laws have not existed in USA for a very very long time if ever, why would it happend in 2017? The western culture is very different. I dont think you have to be worried. At worst in USA you will see conservative laws like gay-couples are not allowed to be married and drive cars etc.


Well it wouldn't occur immediately, my concern would be the more separation of state and religion is dissolved, which some of the administration and conservative fringe groups are attempting to do the more likely it is to become a breeding ground for attempts to instate biblical law. It may start with gay couples not being allowed to marry or drive cars(though where did that one come from, are the people who actually believe gayness makes you unable to drive properly?). But the thing is where would it stop, without respect for separation of state and religion?


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techstepgenr8tion
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18 May 2017, 8:25 pm

Islam's in a really difficult spot existentially and, in places where it's the majority religion, it seems like the fundamentalist impulse is coming up more often as a hedge against modernity.


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18 May 2017, 9:18 pm

Stories like this make me wonder about the very sanity of those on the far-Left who on the one hand push so hard for issues like "gay marriage", but at the very same time try to coerce as many as they can into accepting 'the religion of peace' into our (largely secular) culture. In Islamic countries, especially those that claim to practice Sharia Law, homosexuals are usually executed (ex. in Iran and Saudi Arabia). That is a fact. The cultures of the West and Islam are fundamentally incompatible. How can so many people not see something so blatantly obvious?



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18 May 2017, 9:34 pm

Lintar wrote:
Stories like this make me wonder about the very sanity of those on the far-Left who on the one hand push so hard for issues like "gay marriage", but at the very same time try to coerce as many as they can into accepting 'the religion of peace' into our (largely secular) culture. In Islamic countries, especially those that claim to practice Sharia Law, homosexuals are usually executed (ex. in Iran and Saudi Arabia). That is a fact. The cultures of the West and Islam are fundamentally incompatible. How can so many people not see something so blatantly obvious?

The far left and Islam share a love for utopian statism, and it's a big enough thing for the left that female genital mutilation, freedom of belief, and the rest seems like a small matter in comparison to what they have in common.


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19 May 2017, 12:34 am

Lintar wrote:
Stories like this make me wonder about the very sanity of those on the far-Left who on the one hand push so hard for issues like "gay marriage", but at the very same time try to coerce as many as they can into accepting 'the religion of peace' into our (largely secular) culture. In Islamic countries, especially those that claim to practice Sharia Law, homosexuals are usually executed (ex. in Iran and Saudi Arabia). That is a fact. The cultures of the West and Islam are fundamentally incompatible. How can so many people not see something so blatantly obvious?


The left isn't promoting Sharia intolerance for gays or anyone else, but rather is concerned that Muslim Americans are being demonized by bigots from both high and low places in this country. It's more a matter of defending everyone's right to worship.


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19 May 2017, 1:55 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Stories like this make me wonder about the very sanity of those on the far-Left who on the one hand push so hard for issues like "gay marriage", but at the very same time try to coerce as many as they can into accepting 'the religion of peace' into our (largely secular) culture. In Islamic countries, especially those that claim to practice Sharia Law, homosexuals are usually executed (ex. in Iran and Saudi Arabia). That is a fact. The cultures of the West and Islam are fundamentally incompatible. How can so many people not see something so blatantly obvious?


The left isn't promoting Sharia intolerance for gays or anyone else, but rather is concerned that Muslim Americans are being demonized by bigots from both high and low places in this country. It's more a matter of defending everyone's right to worship.


Yeah and then the funny part some of the same people who would criticize sharia law want to impose their religious beliefs on others. Sure muslims hate gays but so do they....kind of thing, but I guess it's only wrong if muslims do it not christians? Or christians can justify it by 'oh well i wouldn't kill them for being gay, I just don't think they should have the right to be thus gay marriage should be illegal.' well what if enough people disobey it then what? eventually it could lead to christian extremism and pushing for christian law which would be exactly like sharia law for the most part. Yes even in Christianity women where supposed to be covered, imagine actually enforcing that.


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19 May 2017, 4:44 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Stories like this make me wonder about the very sanity of those on the far-Left who on the one hand push so hard for issues like "gay marriage", but at the very same time try to coerce as many as they can into accepting 'the religion of peace' into our (largely secular) culture. In Islamic countries, especially those that claim to practice Sharia Law, homosexuals are usually executed (ex. in Iran and Saudi Arabia). That is a fact. The cultures of the West and Islam are fundamentally incompatible. How can so many people not see something so blatantly obvious?


The left isn't promoting Sharia intolerance for gays or anyone else, but rather is concerned that Muslim Americans are being demonized by bigots from both high and low places in this country. It's more a matter of defending everyone's right to worship.


Yeah and then the funny part some of the same people who would criticize sharia law want to impose their religious beliefs on others. Sure muslims hate gays but so do they....kind of thing, but I guess it's only wrong if muslims do it not christians? Or christians can justify it by 'oh well i wouldn't kill them for being gay, I just don't think they should have the right to be thus gay marriage should be illegal.' well what if enough people disobey it then what? eventually it could lead to christian extremism and pushing for christian law which would be exactly like sharia law for the most part. Yes even in Christianity women where supposed to be covered, imagine actually enforcing that.


Absolutely.


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19 May 2017, 5:51 am

I am surprised, Indonesia is a relatively progressive country in comparison to the rest of the Islamic world.



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19 May 2017, 1:04 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
I am surprised, Indonesia is a relatively progressive country in comparison to the rest of the Islamic world.


Apparently not...


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19 May 2017, 2:18 pm

I am seeing guys, in the mixed personals, saying they drive around, naked, from the waist down. They get an exhibitionist thrill from stores, during the holiday rush, busy playgrounds, and the possibility of getting caught.

So, assuming that some guys are mildy effeminate, and some women are masculine, and that is not a religious crime, per se --
How would you get caught. Does anyone ever literally police a bedroom. Are they being ostentatious.

I'm ok discussing it, in the abstract, secularly, hypothetically, in the free marketplace of ideas, without having a meltdown.

In the eyeball world, I see gay people causing impositions, when it should really be none of my business, if you do.

I don't think that many of you are being pragmatic or intellectually honest, because what is actually happening. Is someone saying it's the wrong color shirt and opening the closet door? Really?



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19 May 2017, 7:05 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
The left isn't promoting Sharia intolerance for gays or anyone else, but rather is concerned that Muslim Americans are being demonized by bigots from both high and low places in this country. It's more a matter of defending everyone's right to worship.

One thing I got to think about with this today. Do we give the Ugandan Christians much of a break on their behavior in this regard for being African? In a hypothetical scenario where a group of Ugandan Christians came to the states and wanted to set up a town that went by Levitical law would we bend over backward to protect them as Africans or would our cultural familiarity with Christianity lead us to instantly call both their behavior and the bible BS? This is where the 'protect the brown person at all costs!' bit starts unraveling in coherence because I still think it depends which type of brown person, which religion, etc.. and I still don't understand how keeping American muslims safe means criticizing the behavior of their theocratic states extends as bigotry - even though the left does tend to play that game.


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