Board index › General Discussion › News and Current Events

Trump's 1st Trip Abroad as President

Page 4 of 7 [ 101 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

22 May 2017, 9:44 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I'm not understanding this latest upset. Why is "they" supposed to be limited to a coupe of news stories? There is a huge amount of sensationalism, innuendo and rumor mongering going on all over the place 24/7.

The whole idea from the beginning is that Trump supposedly blabbed secret info to the Russians that will supposedly have disastrous consequences and put whoever imagined in danger.

Btw, some scholars say Nero wasn't nearly as bad as he's been made out to be.


The problem is that for our intelligence agencies to operate in other nations and cooperate with other nations we need a certain level of trust. If the president is burning assets of other countries we will lose that trust and the intelligence they have to offer us because no one wants to spend years training an asset, millions of dollars getting an operation running, only to have all that investment flushed down the toilet by an ally in a casual manner. Our intelligence network is a global network, if parts of Europe, Asia, and South America start going dark on us because we're too risky to share with we're blind to any possible attacks coming from those regions. If you think our intelligence is bad now (it's actually not comparatively), wait until it's operating with a blindfold.


Is this something that has happened or is it just something people are hysterically paranoid over happening? I remember the biggest hysterically paranoid fear is that Trump will lose his temper and start launching nukes. There's always been a paranoid hysterical fear that Trump is going to whatever or has already done whatever. Always. Even before he took office.



Aristophanes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,603
Location: USA

22 May 2017, 9:49 pm

EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I'm not understanding this latest upset. Why is "they" supposed to be limited to a coupe of news stories? There is a huge amount of sensationalism, innuendo and rumor mongering going on all over the place 24/7.

The whole idea from the beginning is that Trump supposedly blabbed secret info to the Russians that will supposedly have disastrous consequences and put whoever imagined in danger.

Btw, some scholars say Nero wasn't nearly as bad as he's been made out to be.


The problem is that for our intelligence agencies to operate in other nations and cooperate with other nations we need a certain level of trust. If the president is burning assets of other countries we will lose that trust and the intelligence they have to offer us because no one wants to spend years training an asset, millions of dollars getting an operation running, only to have all that investment flushed down the toilet by an ally in a casual manner. Our intelligence network is a global network, if parts of Europe, Asia, and South America start going dark on us because we're too risky to share with we're blind to any possible attacks coming from those regions. If you think our intelligence is bad now (it's actually not comparatively), wait until it's operating with a blindfold.


Is this something that has happened or is it just something people are hysterically paranoid over happening? I remember the biggest hysterically paranoid fear is that Trump will lose his temper and start launching nukes. There's always been a paranoid hysterical fear that Trump is going to whatever or has already done whatever. Always. Even before he took office.


Yes, just this morning, he got in front of the press and made sure to mention that when he passed the information to Russia he didnt tell them it came from Israel, that was the press, thereby idiotically confirming the story which to this point the Israeli's had plausible deniability.



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

22 May 2017, 10:13 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I'm not understanding this latest upset. Why is "they" supposed to be limited to a coupe of news stories? There is a huge amount of sensationalism, innuendo and rumor mongering going on all over the place 24/7.

The whole idea from the beginning is that Trump supposedly blabbed secret info to the Russians that will supposedly have disastrous consequences and put whoever imagined in danger.

Btw, some scholars say Nero wasn't nearly as bad as he's been made out to be.


The problem is that for our intelligence agencies to operate in other nations and cooperate with other nations we need a certain level of trust. If the president is burning assets of other countries we will lose that trust and the intelligence they have to offer us because no one wants to spend years training an asset, millions of dollars getting an operation running, only to have all that investment flushed down the toilet by an ally in a casual manner. Our intelligence network is a global network, if parts of Europe, Asia, and South America start going dark on us because we're too risky to share with we're blind to any possible attacks coming from those regions. If you think our intelligence is bad now (it's actually not comparatively), wait until it's operating with a blindfold.


Is this something that has happened or is it just something people are hysterically paranoid over happening? I remember the biggest hysterically paranoid fear is that Trump will lose his temper and start launching nukes. There's always been a paranoid hysterical fear that Trump is going to whatever or has already done whatever. Always. Even before he took office.


Yes, just this morning, he got in front of the press and made sure to mention that when he passed the information to Russia he didnt tell them it came from Israel, that was the press, thereby idiotically confirming the story which to this point the Israeli's had plausible deniability.


I don't understand what that's supposed to mean.



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

23 May 2017, 7:27 am

EzraS wrote:
I don't understand what that's supposed to mean.


Trump gave away that the intelligence he gave to the Russians was Israeli. Up until he said it, there was no proof. He admitted that he told the Russians information he should not have.



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

23 May 2017, 8:28 am

androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I don't understand what that's supposed to mean.


Trump gave away that the intelligence he gave to the Russians was Israeli. Up until he said it, there was no proof. He admitted that he told the Russians information he should not have.


So people were saying Trump got his info from Israel, he stated that he never mentioned Israel, so that means that's where he got the info.

I don't see how that amounts to logical deductive reasoning. It sounds like pure presumption. In other words, the usual regarding Trump's supposed crimes.

Is there a name for this kind of theory? That if someone says they never mentioned someone's name, that automatically implicates them?

This just looks like more invented nonsense and explains why I didn't understand it at first, because it doesn't make sense.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

23 May 2017, 8:34 am

Trump can share any information he wants, he is the president. It's so disingenuous for liberals to cry about the disservice we did to Israel even tho they hate Israel. Russia and Israel have a close relationship, the US and Israel have a close relationship, Trump and Netanyahu have known each other & have been friends since the 80s, it's just a completely false narrative. Russia is own our side in the war on terror, at least when we haven't been supporting ISIS or other extremists for our own ends.



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

23 May 2017, 8:35 am

By saying he did not name Israel, he is also saying that he shared information which he did not disclose was from Israel with the Russians. So he is saying implicitly that he did share classified information with the Russians which was from Israel, but he didn't tell them that part. The problem with this is that the source of the information would not be that hard for the Russians to figure out anyway; that is, Trump should not have shared the information at all. He has already discredited himself with Netanyahu, shouting out that he didn't just makes him look like a fool.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

23 May 2017, 8:37 am

there probably isn't a foreign leader that supports Trump more than Netanyahu

Russia and Israel are very close now!



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

23 May 2017, 8:41 am

Jacoby wrote:
there probably isn't a foreign leader that supports Trump more than Netanyahu

Russia and Israel are very close now!


That doesn't mean that Trump is not a complete fool, and Netanyahu knows it. Israel will not be sharing intelligence with Trump in the future.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

23 May 2017, 8:46 am

androbot01 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
there probably isn't a foreign leader that supports Trump more than Netanyahu

Russia and Israel are very close now!


That doesn't mean that Trump is not a complete fool, and Netanyahu knows it. Israel will not be sharing intelligence with Trump in the future.


Yes they will, you know nothing. Fake news running with a totally false narrative, again.

Everybody despised incompetent corrupt terrorist supporting Obama, both the Saudis and Israelis. They're looking at our problems with rogue 'intelligence agents' and laugh, in almost any other country they would be summarily executed for their seditious activities.



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

23 May 2017, 8:57 am

I have figured out the political figure whom Trump reminds me of: Boris Yeltzin

Image

Image



Aristophanes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,603
Location: USA

23 May 2017, 9:08 am

Jacoby wrote:
Trump can share any information he wants, he is the president. It's so disingenuous for liberals to cry about the disservice we did to Israel even tho they hate Israel. Russia and Israel have a close relationship, the US and Israel have a close relationship, Trump and Netanyahu have known each other & have been friends since the 80s, it's just a completely false narrative. Russia is own our side in the war on terror, at least when we haven't been supporting ISIS or other extremists for our own ends.


Israel isn't the issue at all, our other allies are. Let me ask you Jacoby: if you had a friend that was sharing secrets to anyone within earshot would you share your secrets with that person?

You're correct, a president can share any information he wants, that doesn't mean that his decisions on whom and how to share are necessarily correct-- he is human after all and humans are notorious for making mistakes. No one is denying his ability to share information, they're questioning his judgement in this case.



Aristophanes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,603
Location: USA

23 May 2017, 9:19 am

Jacoby wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
there probably isn't a foreign leader that supports Trump more than Netanyahu

Russia and Israel are very close now!


That doesn't mean that Trump is not a complete fool, and Netanyahu knows it. Israel will not be sharing intelligence with Trump in the future.


Yes they will, you know nothing. Fake news running with a totally false narrative, again.

Everybody despised incompetent corrupt terrorist supporting Obama, both the Saudis and Israelis. They're looking at our problems with rogue 'intelligence agents' and laugh, in almost any other country they would be summarily executed for their seditious activities.

The funny thing is there was no bureaucracy (your alleged 'deep state') in that meeting, that meeting had seven of Trump's political appointments, Trump, three Russian journalists and two Russian diplomats. That leak came from either him, his political appointments (most likely), Russian diplomats or the Russian press. If Trump has problems with leakers in this case he has only himself to blame since 1. if it was a political appointment he exercised poor judgement in hiring that person and 2. he had the authority to allow any person in that meeting and he obviously chose someone that couldn't keep his mouth shut.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

23 May 2017, 9:29 am

the media straight up lies and makes stuff up, all they have to do is attribute it to some anonymous source and they can make up whatever ridiculous lie they want.



Aristophanes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,603
Location: USA

23 May 2017, 9:49 am

Jacoby wrote:
the media straight up lies and makes stuff up, all they have to do is attribute it to some anonymous source and they can make up whatever ridiculous lie they want.

And yet, Spicer verified Trump shared said information 2 days after the event took place and Trump verified the source of the intel on Sunday. Therefore, not fake or made up, just not flattering to Trump's judgement in hindsight.



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

23 May 2017, 10:35 am

androbot01 wrote:
By saying he did not name Israel, he is also saying that he shared information which he did not disclose was from Israel with the Russians. So he is saying implicitly that he did share classified information with the Russians which was from Israel, but he didn't tell them that part. The problem with this is that the source of the information would not be that hard for the Russians to figure out anyway; that is, Trump should not have shared the information at all. He has already discredited himself with Netanyahu, shouting out that he didn't just makes him look like a fool.


That still doesn't really compute. It seems like they're reaching for a conclusion.

And what's supposed to be the big no no in Israel providing information about ISIS anyways?

Did Netanyahu make a statement that Trump discredited himself with him, or is that just another conclusion they reached for?

If Trump thinks Russia can be a help in combating ISIS, why shouldn't he share information with them regarding ISIS?