Trump's 1st Trip Abroad as President

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Aristophanes
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26 May 2017, 9:21 am

Jacoby wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Yeah, that's how it works. Get a warrant, respect the 4th amendment.

How about if it was Ala-aba Hussein, known foreign terrorist making a phone call to Al-asir bin Zawari, American citizen living in Michigan. Still want the CIA to turn off the bug on Ala-aba Hussein?


The law is the law, we don't need to give the CIA or whoever else free reign to act as a police state to fight terrorism. Our government should not being spying on American citizens with no due process.

Way to support terrorists Jacoby.



Tollorin
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26 May 2017, 1:01 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Yeah, that's how it works. Get a warrant, respect the 4th amendment.

How about if it was Ala-aba Hussein, known foreign terrorist making a phone call to Al-asir bin Zawari, American citizen living in Michigan. Still want the CIA to turn off the bug on Ala-aba Hussein?


The law is the law, we don't need to give the CIA or whoever else free reign to act as a police state to fight terrorism. Our government should not being spying on American citizens with no due process.

You're right that government forces of law shouldn't spy on citizens without due process, like no peoples should be tortured or prisoned/deported without a court of law.


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jrjones9933
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26 May 2017, 1:08 pm

As I understand the FISA courts we have in the US, when a foreign suspect makes a call to someone in the US, the authorities can listen in for a moment. If the people start discussing a criminal activity, then they can keep listening. People with a need to know can learn the identity of the person in the US.

AFAIK, the NSA still has a policy of collecting everything. What the courts have so far forced them to do is set up clear boundaries about accessing the information. Well, boundaries anyway; only more lawsuits and closer supervision will reveal more specifics of the policies and how closely the agencies follow those policies.


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Aristophanes
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26 May 2017, 5:21 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
As I understand the FISA courts we have in the US, when a foreign suspect makes a call to someone in the US, the authorities can listen in for a moment. If the people start discussing a criminal activity, then they can keep listening. People with a need to know can learn the identity of the person in the US.

AFAIK, the NSA still has a policy of collecting everything. What the courts have so far forced them to do is set up clear boundaries about accessing the information. Well, boundaries anyway; only more lawsuits and closer supervision will reveal more specifics of the policies and how closely the agencies follow those policies.


The NSA is allowed to listen in on any call from a foreign source. Since the call crosses international borders normal U.S. laws don't apply, the call is considered to be 'abroad', same goes for data transmission (e-mail, website browsing, etc). If that communication produces information that an American citizen could be involved in a crime, the NSA will bring a case to the FISA court and if sufficient evidence is presented the court may issue a gag-order and wiretap, meaning the NSA can now tap the American citizen and no one is the wiser since the gag-order means only the court and the NSA would be aware of the order.

It's section 215 of the Patriot Act, written by a Republican congress and signed into law by a Republican president, George W. Bush, 2003.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_s ... under_FISA



jrjones9933
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26 May 2017, 9:25 pm

Ah, yeah. It's good to look at the details again. I believe that lawsuits are making their way through the courts, with everyone prepared to go all the way. Congress can't or won't pass an intelligible bill to clarify it? Great. :roll:


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