Do Munchausens Hate Us? And other syndroms/disorders?

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wrongcitizen
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25 May 2017, 2:50 am

Before you read I basically accidently diagnosed this person with both Munchausen and Narcissistic Sociopathy. I don't have a way of getting an official diagnosis from her, but I feel like she's hiding something...

So essentially, there is a person at my school and work. She's very childish, and very entitled. She's confrontational and loud, yet cheerful and friendly at the same time. She's charming, she gets in it with other people and she works well socially. I just mind my own business and she always has these offhand remarks. Most of the time however she stays away from me, but she can't stand me and that's what I don't get.

She fakes my behaviors as well. She sees my body movements and my speech problems and mimics them. She says she has disorders and that I don't, and I'm copying HER? Hell f*****g no, I deal with this s**t my entire life and I would SOMETIMES love to be neurotypical. As much as I'm happy with myself, I live in a living hell, and I can't stand it when people tell me they have it hard when they're surrounded by friends and are chatty and loud and happy. She is threatened by me being in the room because she feels like I'm "ill" or something, that I'm depressive and flat, but she also wants to get rid of me, and the two other AS people in the class. I don't get it. How can she hate me but want to be me? And ME of all people?

She also says she's schizophrenic, but she searches up symptoms and acting tutorials. I don't get this either. I don't care if she's schizophrenic, so why does she announce it to everyone constantly? She says her life is very hard, and people need to be aware of the dangers of schizophrenia. It has caused her supposed problems such as (what she lists as) hallucinations and voices, that she's prone to delusions of grandeur and that's why she acts like a loud brat. What the hell? Didn't I read that off the first search result? I have nothing against Schizophrenic people, in fact my sympathy goes to them and I feel bad that they have to suffer, but she's not the one who suffers, she brings US the suffering.

She's also whiny. She fakes her behaviors to other people. She's charming as hell, and a lot of people who she perceives as "normal" like to be around her. She then turns around and tries to hide the rest of us. She has a loud and pessimistic voice. She behaves like a 5 year old. I've also noticed this in other personality disorders. A lot of them literally act like they're 5, and not in behavior but in social communication. It's a VERY cunning and manipulative grown up CHILD.

So what are your thoughts? I'm so sick of people, I want to live off the grid ASAP but I love my family and I can't even tell them that. I get personally offended when someone mocks and fakes my problems, but I don't care because they can do what they want and I won't stop them. What do you think of this whole thing?



League_Girl
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25 May 2017, 12:44 pm

My opinion is people with actual disorders are not open about their diagnoses like that and people who are self diagnosed because they are still trying to find answers for their problems. Those who always talk about their bad childhoods or their "disorders" are doing it for attention because people don't do that. I would even wonder if they even have it in the first place or if they were actually abused.

Online it's totally different when a person always talks about their disorder like in their blogs or vblogs. But I doubt in real life they are always talking about it.

I am sure people with actual disorders can also do attention seeking with their diagnoses as well like the girl is at work and in your school. I am also sure people can exaggerate their own symptoms and their condition and fake more symptoms they don't even have.

Also people who act like that girl in your OP I believe also have something wrong with them because that isn't normal behavior.


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25 May 2017, 12:53 pm

Remember: there's Munchausen's alone, and there's Munchausen's by Proxy---two different disorders.



naturalplastic
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25 May 2017, 1:20 pm

Don't know what you mean by you "accidently diagnosed her with Munchausen's". you're not a doctor. And whether or not you are one or not I don't know how a diagnosis can be "accidental".

But that aside. If she IS a Munchausen person then her behavior makes sense. In my understanding of Munchausen's the behavior you describe is exactly what the disorder is: concocting imaginary illnesses to get attention/sympathy.

She specializes in mental illnesses. Reads up on them (as you said). And then announces to the world that she has said illnesses. Just what you're describing. Her mimicking of you (who knows?) might be in part mocking or bullying. But could also be her studying a live specimen (you) of autism (or whatever she thinks you have) in order to add that disorder to her quiver of arrows (one more disorder she can pretend to have in a way she hopes will be convincing). Don't think it has much to do with "liking" or "disliking" you. Don't know why you would even want her to "like" you any way. Lol!. That is unless you're afraid that she will get you thrown out of the class. Maybe you should strike first and report on her disruptive mocking behavior, and other weird behavior.



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25 May 2017, 1:44 pm

My wife runs a niche community/website for people with a very rare condition. We've seen a number of members come through and exhibit this behaviour - they infiltrate the community, feigning the condition, and then they pump members to describe their comorbitities. A few days later they begin to emulate the symptoms from their interviews.

She had one woman who complained of a prostate inflammation... 8O

I dislike these people at the best of times, but when you're seeking attention from people with life threatening conditions, I think that's disgusting.


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25 May 2017, 1:52 pm

Like what out of the blue she just started copying your behaviors, and telling you she has disorders and you don't? Or did other interactions lead up to this. I mean it sort of seems like initially(regardless of if anything is wrong with her or not) you've found her annoying and unlikable....are you sure she 'hates' you or more just doesn't like you anymore than you like her. I mean it doesn't seem like you have considered this Munchhausen out of concern for her, more trying to find something to explain her obnoxious behavior.

I mean if you have to interact, perhaps next time she brings up her disorders...you should suggest that she see a doctor and perhaps try and change the topic after that.


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25 May 2017, 4:18 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Don't know what you mean by you "accidently diagnosed her with Munchausen's". you're not a doctor. And whether or not you are one or not I don't know how a diagnosis can be "accidental".

But that aside. If she IS a Munchausen person then her behavior makes sense. In my understanding of Munchausen's the behavior you describe is exactly what the disorder is: concocting imaginary illnesses to get attention/sympathy.



Do you have any first hand knowledge of Munchausen ? As I have always wondered - if a person with Munchausen gets a life threatening condition or illness would there be an inner turmoil i.e. happy that they get attention/sympathy , unhappy that they're actually ill - would it be a bitter sweet moment in their life.


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naturalplastic
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25 May 2017, 5:41 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Don't know what you mean by you "accidently diagnosed her with Munchausen's". you're not a doctor. And whether or not you are one or not I don't know how a diagnosis can be "accidental".

But that aside. If she IS a Munchausen person then her behavior makes sense. In my understanding of Munchausen's the behavior you describe is exactly what the disorder is: concocting imaginary illnesses to get attention/sympathy.



Do you have any first hand knowledge of Munchausen ? As I have always wondered - if a person with Munchausen gets a life threatening condition or illness would there be an inner turmoil i.e. happy that they get attention/sympathy , unhappy that they're actually ill - would it be a bitter sweet moment in their life.


That's why I said "in my understanding of M..". Havent seen it firsthand. Not really expert. Just know the basics that everyone has heard from made for TV dramas about it. Lol!

Interesting question. Such a person might be happy if they got a skin disease (skin conditions never kill you, but they never go away). Mental conditions (schizophrenia, autism, bipolar) are much the same (don't kill you, but never go away). So that's why the lady in question probably is fixated on mental conditions.



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25 May 2017, 6:02 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Don't know what you mean by you "accidently diagnosed her with Munchausen's". you're not a doctor. And whether or not you are one or not I don't know how a diagnosis can be "accidental".

But that aside. If she IS a Munchausen person then her behavior makes sense. In my understanding of Munchausen's the behavior you describe is exactly what the disorder is: concocting imaginary illnesses to get attention/sympathy.



Do you have any first hand knowledge of Munchausen ? As I have always wondered - if a person with Munchausen gets a life threatening condition or illness would there be an inner turmoil i.e. happy that they get attention/sympathy , unhappy that they're actually ill - would it be a bitter sweet moment in their life.


I once saw a woman on the Dr. Phil show who had that condition and she one time had to go get stitches and she would pull the stitches out and rub things in her cut to make it infected so she could keep going back. She enjoyed the attention and she wanted to stop it but couldn't because she craved attention so to me it sounded like it was an OCD thing because they have the compulsion to get attention and do these things.


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25 May 2017, 6:06 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Don't know what you mean by you "accidently diagnosed her with Munchausen's". you're not a doctor. And whether or not you are one or not I don't know how a diagnosis can be "accidental".

But that aside. If she IS a Munchausen person then her behavior makes sense. In my understanding of Munchausen's the behavior you describe is exactly what the disorder is: concocting imaginary illnesses to get attention/sympathy.



Do you have any first hand knowledge of Munchausen ? As I have always wondered - if a person with Munchhausen gets a life threatening condition or illness would there be an inner turmoil i.e. happy that they get attention/sympathy , unhappy that they're actually ill - would it be a bitter sweet moment in their life.


That's why I said "in my understanding of M..". Havent seen it firsthand. Not really expert. Just know the basics that everyone has heard from made for TV dramas about it. Lol!

Interesting question. Such a person might be happy if they got a skin disease (skin conditions never kill you, but they never go away). Mental conditions (schizophrenia, autism, bipolar) are much the same (don't kill you, but never go away). So that's why the lady in question probably is fixated on mental conditions.


I suppose maybe mental conditions are the easiest to fake so a good choice for someone with Munchhausen's . If you ever find out the answer to my question please let me know :)


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SaveFerris
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25 May 2017, 6:13 pm

League_Girl wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Don't know what you mean by you "accidently diagnosed her with Munchausen's". you're not a doctor. And whether or not you are one or not I don't know how a diagnosis can be "accidental".

But that aside. If she IS a Munchausen person then her behavior makes sense. In my understanding of Munchausen's the behavior you describe is exactly what the disorder is: concocting imaginary illnesses to get attention/sympathy.



Do you have any first hand knowledge of Munchausen ? As I have always wondered - if a person with Munchausen gets a life threatening condition or illness would there be an inner turmoil i.e. happy that they get attention/sympathy , unhappy that they're actually ill - would it be a bitter sweet moment in their life.


I once saw a woman on the Dr. Phil show who had that condition and she one time had to go get stitches and she would pull the stitches out and rub things in her cut to make it infected so she could keep going back. She enjoyed the attention and she wanted to stop it but couldn't because she craved attention so to me it sounded like it was an OCD thing because they have the compulsion to get attention and do these things.


I've heard of things like that , I'm guessing the ultimate goal is the attention / sympathy but I wonder if self preservation ever prevents them from going to far.


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25 May 2017, 6:16 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Don't know what you mean by you "accidently diagnosed her with Munchausen's". you're not a doctor. And whether or not you are one or not I don't know how a diagnosis can be "accidental".

But that aside. If she IS a Munchausen person then her behavior makes sense. In my understanding of Munchausen's the behavior you describe is exactly what the disorder is: concocting imaginary illnesses to get attention/sympathy.



Do you have any first hand knowledge of Munchausen ? As I have always wondered - if a person with Munchausen gets a life threatening condition or illness would there be an inner turmoil i.e. happy that they get attention/sympathy , unhappy that they're actually ill - would it be a bitter sweet moment in their life.


I once saw a woman on the Dr. Phil show who had that condition and she one time had to go get stitches and she would pull the stitches out and rub things in her cut to make it infected so she could keep going back. She enjoyed the attention and she wanted to stop it but couldn't because she craved attention so to me it sounded like it was an OCD thing because they have the compulsion to get attention and do these things.


I've heard of things like that , I'm guessing the ultimate goal is the attention / sympathy but I wonder if self preservation ever prevents them from going to far.



I believe it's a spectrum because no one with MS is alike. Some will fake mental disorders or mental illnesses and some will actually make themselves sick and then go to the hospital, some will just exaggerate and make stuff up claiming to be sick so they keep going to doctors.

Then there are other disorders that look like Munchausen but it's not and it's called Hypochondria or somatic disorder. It's all about the intention behind it is what makes it MUnchausen or not.


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25 May 2017, 7:37 pm

League_Girl wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Don't know what you mean by you "accidently diagnosed her with Munchausen's". you're not a doctor. And whether or not you are one or not I don't know how a diagnosis can be "accidental".

But that aside. If she IS a Munchausen person then her behavior makes sense. In my understanding of Munchausen's the behavior you describe is exactly what the disorder is: concocting imaginary illnesses to get attention/sympathy.



Do you have any first hand knowledge of Munchausen ? As I have always wondered - if a person with Munchausen gets a life threatening condition or illness would there be an inner turmoil i.e. happy that they get attention/sympathy , unhappy that they're actually ill - would it be a bitter sweet moment in their life.


I once saw a woman on the Dr. Phil show who had that condition and she one time had to go get stitches and she would pull the stitches out and rub things in her cut to make it infected so she could keep going back. She enjoyed the attention and she wanted to stop it but couldn't because she craved attention so to me it sounded like it was an OCD thing because they have the compulsion to get attention and do these things.


I've heard of things like that , I'm guessing the ultimate goal is the attention / sympathy but I wonder if self preservation ever prevents them from going to far.



I believe it's a spectrum because no one with MS is alike. Some will fake mental disorders or mental illnesses and some will actually make themselves sick and then go to the hospital, some will just exaggerate and make stuff up claiming to be sick so they keep going to doctors.

Then there are other disorders that look like Munchausen but it's not and it's called Hypochondria or somatic disorder. It's all about the intention behind it is what makes it MUnchausen or not.


I sort of see most illnesses as being on a spectrum ( mild to severe ) so I'm guessing I'll never get a definite answer to my question.


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27 May 2017, 5:36 pm

I can relate to a lot what the OP said. I can't prove that I've actually met people with Munchausen's, but it seems to happen from time to time with for people with a disability or chronic health problem to get caught up in a "I'm more ill/disabled" game with someone exaggerating or flat out faking. It's hard to tell if it's Munchausen's, but people "gaming the system" are more obvious than someone engaging in attention seeking. What I've seen that problem was Munchausen's has been things like someone seeming to "collect" diagnoses of seemingly unrelated health issues, or else having a real disability but trying to embellish things, like trying to immerse themselves in all things disability-related, and getting irate when meeting other disabled persons who actually don't want to talk about disabilities 24/7. The really disturbing thing is that some people exaggerating or faking can do it so well that they can fool people to the point of them *not* believing someone whose disabilities or other health problems are real.

What I think is frustrating about all of it is that I find myself trying to balance my low tolerance for crap that people pull like that and not coming across as lacking empathy for people who really are dealing with those conditions. Same thing with AS and being on the spectrum: noting cool about being on the spectrum, and yet I've seen many examples of people seeming to want to be diagnosed so either they get a pass on their bad behavior or else to give an extra air of mystery or uniqueness to their creative work. With various disabilities, there's also the problem of people who don't have a condition themselves but are interested to the point of being creepy and trying to ingratiate themselves with people with certain health problems or disabilities.



Last edited by Simon01 on 27 May 2017, 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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27 May 2017, 6:17 pm

^^^^^
Basically you're saying that if you have real disabilities you are liable to run into folks with Munchausen, or who are Munchausen-like (they may have some real disabilities but they fake being even MORE disabled than they really are)?

I can imagine how that that would probably be true.



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27 May 2017, 7:53 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^

That's basically it. Not something that happens all the time of course, but one of the "wtf?" things I experienced when I was first disabled were credibility problems when someone exaggerating their condition for attention was falsely accusing other disabled students at a local college of fraud to divert attention from their manipulative actions.

I have acquaintances with kids on the spectrum who have run into parents at support groups who come across as being way too enthusiastic about their kids being autistic, and getting hostile when the other parents aren't acting the same way about their kids. Not Munchausen's By Proxy, but think people acting like they're special or heroic because they have a family member or friend with a particular condition. In a similar vein, some parents with special needs kids actually embrace all the restrictions and impediments to their kids being "normal"- to better ensure bragging rights about how worse off their kid is compared to other kids with similar disabilities.