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EzraS
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27 May 2017, 8:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It did happen. Do not underestimate the power of hate and racism. Besides, I first heard about this on a Star Trek documentary, so I doubt that this is an urban legend.


Prove it.


Look at Listverse, with their most controversial Star Trek episodes. They talk about how there were southern stations that wouldn't show the episode, Plato's Children, because of the interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura.
I'm still looking for a source to confirm that the series wasn't shown on all southern stations playing NBC, though I know for a fact that that has been stated repeatedly.


I already mentioned that one episode. But what you're claiming is an entire original network primetime series was kept off the air in "the south" for three years. And everyone else is going along with it.



ASS-P
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27 May 2017, 8:38 pm

...ALL NBC stations in all 10 or 12 states that could be called " Southern " did not clear (show) ST:TOS ? I doubt that . TV documentaries' narration are often aittle nonspecific , I think .
However , again , I imagine some did - Or , again , may. have shunted it off to lesser time it's too - maybe , in some cases .
There were considerably less TV stations - meaning over-the-air
r TV stations - in the 60s . It was not unknown for there to be TV stations in secondary or rural areas that carried more than one network , and so could pick and choose from more than one network's offerings .
An early version of PBS , acronymed NET , existed in the 60s , but I think wasn't in every state , maybe not until 1971 or so/when it became PBS .
I have read , incidentally , that when Sesame Street started in 1969 , the Mississippi version of PBS would not pick it up because of it showing black/white interaction !
Are there really any prime-time series on the Big 3 to-day that are continuously , every episode , not carried by any affiliate , especially for non-" it's​ too naughty " reasons ?
I see your new post , Ezra - this time , we sorta agree ! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!(GASP)hehehe



r"]

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It did happen. Do not underestimate the power of hate and racism. Besides, I first heard about this on a Star Trek documentary, so I doubt that this is an urban legend.


Prove it.


Look at Listverse, with their most controversial Star Trek episodes. They talk about how there were southern stations that wouldn't show the episode, Plato's Children, because of the interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura.
I'm still looking for a source to confirm that the series wasn't shown on all southern stations playing NBC, though I know for a fact that that has been stated repeatedly.[/quote]


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jrjones9933
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27 May 2017, 9:35 pm

Maybe it didn't happen. I could find no source, and I'm pretty good.

I consider it plausible because my dad grew up under segregation, and many institutions remained segregated in Texas as long as they could. Heck, The Cracker Barrel still keeps up that fight. Interestingly, they are the presenting sponsor of the Opry.

However, regarding the current alt-rt moaning festival:

I read other tweets from the people cited. That's a way to give your BS detector more info. They seem real enough: lubertdas sounds like classic revisionist racist, brurrabbit has probably never watched an episode (although I wouldn't want to hate on an ignorant racist; his opinion matters, too) and really reminds me of a teenage skinhead. I've had enough. Those people exist out in the real world. Paid shills have a certain rhythm; shilling don't pay so good, also. Note the quality spam we get here. You have to have Presidential Election level money to buy the best shills.


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Aristophanes
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27 May 2017, 9:45 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It did happen. Do not underestimate the power of hate and racism. Besides, I first heard about this on a Star Trek documentary, so I doubt that this is an urban legend.


Prove it.


Look at Listverse, with their most controversial Star Trek episodes. They talk about how there were southern stations that wouldn't show the episode, Plato's Children, because of the interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura.
I'm still looking for a source to confirm that the series wasn't shown on all southern stations playing NBC, though I know for a fact that that has been stated repeatedly.


I already mentioned that one episode. But what you're claiming is an entire original network primetime series was kept off the air in "the south" for three years. And everyone else is going along with it.


I made no such claims, and I'm a part of 'everyone else'. While I believe it's plausible based on historical context, I have yet to read verifiable evidence here. I vote to acquit.

^edit: assuming we're talking about 'all three years' being on trial and not a handful of stations on one episode. Context is everything.



Kraichgauer
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27 May 2017, 11:59 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It did happen. Do not underestimate the power of hate and racism. Besides, I first heard about this on a Star Trek documentary, so I doubt that this is an urban legend.


Prove it.


Look at Listverse, with their most controversial Star Trek episodes. They talk about how there were southern stations that wouldn't show the episode, Plato's Children, because of the interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura.
I'm still looking for a source to confirm that the series wasn't shown on all southern stations playing NBC, though I know for a fact that that has been stated repeatedly.


I already mentioned that one episode. But what you're claiming is an entire original network primetime series was kept off the air in "the south" for three years. And everyone else is going along with it.


Even if it was just that episode, it still goes to show you that those traditional conservative values the right continues to harp on were in fact nothing worth holding on to.


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LoveNotHate
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28 May 2017, 12:45 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Captain Skisko ... Deep Space nine
Image

And what about major Kira?
Image

Right, let's go HUMAN GENOCIDE and have a ship full of aliens.



Aristophanes
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28 May 2017, 1:04 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Captain Skisko ... Deep Space nine
Image

And what about major Kira?
Image

Right, let's go HUMAN GENOCIDE and have a ship full of aliens.

Star Fleet's overhead would go down, 'cause I bet the aliens work for less...Oh wait that's right there's no economy in the 24th century, humans just go around to other civilizations with the best intentions of not interfering, and then interfere. Good to see human nature doesn't change all that much in 300+ years.



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28 May 2017, 1:08 am

Aristophanes wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Captain Skisko ... Deep Space nine
Image

And what about major Kira?
Image

Right, let's go HUMAN GENOCIDE and have a ship full of aliens.

Star Fleet's overhead would go down, 'cause I bet the aliens work for less...Oh wait that's right there's no economy in the 24th century, humans just go around to other civilizations with the best intentions of not interfering, and then interfere. Good to see human nature doesn't change all that much in 300+ years.


well they do try not to intervene but they are humans....I don't know I was kind of actually suprised how diverse star trek was because knowing it came on before my time and such I was kinda surprised to see such diverse cast in it. If anything I figured it was a fairly liberal show for its time due to all the diversity and not to mention calling female commanders 'sir' same as they call the males.


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EzraS
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28 May 2017, 1:24 am

Aristophanes wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It did happen. Do not underestimate the power of hate and racism. Besides, I first heard about this on a Star Trek documentary, so I doubt that this is an urban legend.


Prove it.


Look at Listverse, with their most controversial Star Trek episodes. They talk about how there were southern stations that wouldn't show the episode, Plato's Children, because of the interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura.
I'm still looking for a source to confirm that the series wasn't shown on all southern stations playing NBC, though I know for a fact that that has been stated repeatedly.


I already mentioned that one episode. But what you're claiming is an entire original network primetime series was kept off the air in "the south" for three years. And everyone else is going along with it.


I made no such claims, and I'm a part of 'everyone else'.


And so am I. Yet I was speaking figuratively.


Aristophanes wrote:
While I believe it's plausible based on historical context, I have yet to read verifiable evidence here. I vote to acquit.

^edit: assuming we're talking about 'all three years' being on trial and not a handful of stations on one episode. Context is everything.


We are.



Last edited by EzraS on 28 May 2017, 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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28 May 2017, 1:32 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Even if it was just that episode, it still goes to show you that those traditional conservative values the right continues to harp on were in fact nothing worth holding on to.


So none of these are worth holding onto?:

Quote:
Traditional Conservatives believe in the Traditional structure of society, with different social classes and different sex roles. We do not believe in everything that happened in the past. We believe that the family is the basic structure of human society, not the individual nor the Government.

We reject the idea that the home is less important than paid work. We contend that the value to society, the individual, the Government and the economy of work within the home and in support of society is a value that cannot be counted. A value that makes life better and worth living. Without the support of the home, society and the economy collapse. Without the family the individual is alone with the Government as both their only support and their boss.

We reject the transfer of authority, wealth and influence from the family to Government. We contend that the transfer should end and indeed reverse.

We believe in full male employment and not in chronic unemployment, that either immigration or unemployment can exist but not both at the same time.

We believe in marriage not in divorce, we believe in community and not in isolation or individualism.

We believe in financial solvency and not in long term debt, we believe in each segment of society and the economy having their rightful place and influence but non dominating for long.

We believe in freedom of religion instead of being anti-religious.

We believe in social, political and economic stability.

We do not believe in change for change sake.

We believe in the Traditional family of one Husband/Father, one Wife/Mother and children. We are against any action or policy which attacks or weakens the Traditional family.

We believe that each segment of society should enjoy respect commensurate with their support for stability. We believe that extremes are only rarely of value and that moderation is normally the best policy.

We believe that the Government should be loyal to the people and that the people should return that loyalty.

We believe that employers and employees are on the same side, not competing against one another. We reject class warfare.

We believe that men and women need each other, both on a personal and societal level. We reject both the claim that men and women are rivals or that the differences between them don't matter. The differences are why men and women need each other.

We do not believe that man is lower than animals nor do we believe that mankind is better than angels. We believe in mans fallibility and imperfection. We further believe that extends to our works and institutions. We believe we need to strive to do our best as our imperfections stalk us.

We believe in our Heroes, great and small who gave so much to us and our heritage. We believe in the future of our people and Nation. We believe in the love of our country, in its honor and in its well being.

We believe in war and peace being opposite sides of the same coin and to prepare for both. We do not believe in mankind ending history, nor do we believe in the perfection of man nor of his institutions.

We believe that there will always be rich and poor and that the poor and weak need and deserve our protection. We do not believe in a dog eat dog world. But we do believe in healthy competition within society and the economy.

We believe in good policy and not in feel good politics.

We believe that the victims of crime deserve justice and that serious crime deserves serious punishment.

We believe in Traditional authority and its rightful place. We believe in respect for the Government and in respect for the rule of law and the institutions of Law. We believe in respect for our Armed Forces, Law Enforcement and Emergency Services. We further believe that that respect must be returned or respect can turn to contempt.

We believe in respect for our Glorious dead and for our veterans, for those who serve and those who have served.

We believe in equality of all before the Law, but reject the idea that equality means equal in ability or of outcome.

We believe that society should serve and protect the average person instead of the exceptions.

We believe that there is a time when necessity is more important than the ideal.

We believe that the Nation and its institutions exist to help and protect the citizen of the Nation first and foremost.

Finally we believe in human nature and that we have answers, but we know we do not have all the answers, for that you must seek a higher authority than man.

http://uponhopeblog.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... tives.html



Sweetleaf
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28 May 2017, 1:52 am

EzraS wrote:

Traditional Conservatives believe in the Traditional structure of society, with different social classes and different sex roles. We do not believe in everything that happened in the past. We believe that the family is the basic structure of human society, not the individual nor the Government.

We reject the idea that the home is less important than paid work. We contend that the value to society, the individual, the Government and the economy of work within the home and in support of society is a value that cannot be counted. A value that makes life better and worth living. Without the support of the home, society and the economy collapse. Without the family the individual is alone with the Government as both their only support and their boss.

We reject the transfer of authority, wealth and influence from the family to Government. We contend that the transfer should end and indeed reverse.

We believe in full male employment and not in chronic unemployment, that either immigration or unemployment can exist but not both at the same time.

We believe in marriage not in divorce, we believe in community and not in isolation or individualism.

We believe in financial solvency and not in long term debt, we believe in each segment of society and the economy having their rightful place and influence but non dominating for long.

We believe in freedom of religion instead of being anti-religious.

We believe in social, political and economic stability.

We do not believe in change for change sake.

We believe in the Traditional family of one Husband/Father, one Wife/Mother and children. We are against any action or policy which attacks or weakens the Traditional family.

We believe that each segment of society should enjoy respect commensurate with their support for stability. We believe that extremes are only rarely of value and that moderation is normally the best policy.

We believe that the Government should be loyal to the people and that the people should return that loyalty.

We believe that employers and employees are on the same side, not competing against one another. We reject class warfare.

We believe that men and women need each other, both on a personal and societal level. We reject both the claim that men and women are rivals or that the differences between them don't matter. The differences are why men and women need each other.

We do not believe that man is lower than animals nor do we believe that mankind is better than angels. We believe in mans fallibility and imperfection. We further believe that extends to our works and institutions. We believe we need to strive to do our best as our imperfections stalk us.

We believe in our Heroes, great and small who gave so much to us and our heritage. We believe in the future of our people and Nation. We believe in the love of our country, in its honor and in its well being.

We believe in war and peace being opposite sides of the same coin and to prepare for both. We do not believe in mankind ending history, nor do we believe in the perfection of man nor of his institutions.

We believe that there will always be rich and poor and that the poor and weak need and deserve our protection. We do not believe in a dog eat dog world. But we do believe in healthy competition within society and the economy.

We believe in good policy and not in feel good politics.

We believe that the victims of crime deserve justice and that serious crime deserves serious punishment.

We believe in Traditional authority and its rightful place. We believe in respect for the Government and in respect for the rule of law and the institutions of Law. We believe in respect for our Armed Forces, Law Enforcement and Emergency Services. We further believe that that respect must be returned or respect can turn to contempt.

We believe in respect for our Glorious dead and for our veterans, for those who serve and those who have served.

We believe in equality of all before the Law, but reject the idea that equality means equal in ability or of outcome.

We believe that society should serve and protect the average person instead of the exceptions.

We believe that there is a time when necessity is more important than the ideal.

We believe that the Nation and its institutions exist to help and protect the citizen of the Nation first and foremost.

Finally we believe in human nature and that we have answers, but we know we do not have all the answers, for that you must seek a higher authority than man.

http://uponhopeblog.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... tives.html[/quote]

The republican party sees work as more important than spending time with family, Scandinavia is better at that.

The wealth is going straight to the wealthiest americans with nothing left for the poor or less fortunate..Trump is cutting medicaid, ebt ect.

This country has a lot of long term debt.

what about female employment?

What about when people have good reason to get divorced?

Freedom of religion includes not having to follow a religion or having it forced on you.

Social stability with treating all muslims like terrorists and constantly bitching about how liberals are the intenal enemy?

Some families are not traditional...get over it. Even gay couples can adopt children and give them a nice home to grow up in.

And you believe in helping the poor and sick or whatever write to your congressmen that their trumpcare policy will hurt those people...if you truly believe the right wingers care about helping the poor and sick. Aren't we all ret*d special snowflakes who don't deserve handouts?


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Kraichgauer
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28 May 2017, 1:55 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Even if it was just that episode, it still goes to show you that those traditional conservative values the right continues to harp on were in fact nothing worth holding on to.


So none of these are worth holding onto?:

Quote:
Traditional Conservatives believe in the Traditional structure of society, with different social classes and different sex roles. We do not believe in everything that happened in the past. We believe that the family is the basic structure of human society, not the individual nor the Government.

We reject the idea that the home is less important than paid work. We contend that the value to society, the individual, the Government and the economy of work within the home and in support of society is a value that cannot be counted. A value that makes life better and worth living. Without the support of the home, society and the economy collapse. Without the family the individual is alone with the Government as both their only support and their boss.

We reject the transfer of authority, wealth and influence from the family to Government. We contend that the transfer should end and indeed reverse.

We believe in full male employment and not in chronic unemployment, that either immigration or unemployment can exist but not both at the same time.

We believe in marriage not in divorce, we believe in community and not in isolation or individualism.

We believe in financial solvency and not in long term debt, we believe in each segment of society and the economy having their rightful place and influence but non dominating for long.

We believe in freedom of religion instead of being anti-religious.

We believe in social, political and economic stability.

We do not believe in change for change sake.

We believe in the Traditional family of one Husband/Father, one Wife/Mother and children. We are against any action or policy which attacks or weakens the Traditional family.

We believe that each segment of society should enjoy respect commensurate with their support for stability. We believe that extremes are only rarely of value and that moderation is normally the best policy.

We believe that the Government should be loyal to the people and that the people should return that loyalty.

We believe that employers and employees are on the same side, not competing against one another. We reject class warfare.

We believe that men and women need each other, both on a personal and societal level. We reject both the claim that men and women are rivals or that the differences between them don't matter. The differences are why men and women need each other.

We do not believe that man is lower than animals nor do we believe that mankind is better than angels. We believe in mans fallibility and imperfection. We further believe that extends to our works and institutions. We believe we need to strive to do our best as our imperfections stalk us.

We believe in our Heroes, great and small who gave so much to us and our heritage. We believe in the future of our people and Nation. We believe in the love of our country, in its honor and in its well being.

We believe in war and peace being opposite sides of the same coin and to prepare for both. We do not believe in mankind ending history, nor do we believe in the perfection of man nor of his institutions.

We believe that there will always be rich and poor and that the poor and weak need and deserve our protection. We do not believe in a dog eat dog world. But we do believe in healthy competition within society and the economy.

We believe in good policy and not in feel good politics.

We believe that the victims of crime deserve justice and that serious crime deserves serious punishment.

We believe in Traditional authority and its rightful place. We believe in respect for the Government and in respect for the rule of law and the institutions of Law. We believe in respect for our Armed Forces, Law Enforcement and Emergency Services. We further believe that that respect must be returned or respect can turn to contempt.

We believe in respect for our Glorious dead and for our veterans, for those who serve and those who have served.

We believe in equality of all before the Law, but reject the idea that equality means equal in ability or of outcome.

We believe that society should serve and protect the average person instead of the exceptions.

We believe that there is a time when necessity is more important than the ideal.

We believe that the Nation and its institutions exist to help and protect the citizen of the Nation first and foremost.

Finally we believe in human nature and that we have answers, but we know we do not have all the answers, for that you must seek a higher authority than man.

http://uponhopeblog.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... tives.html


I can find plenty wrong with that list of sanctimonious tripe.
I won't go into the whole list, as I have to get to bed, but here goes:
Employers create class warfare by working their employees for as long as they can, and for as less pay as they can get away with. To say conservatives want employers and employees to be on the same side means they want employees to shut up and take it up the backside.
For conservatives to say there is no struggle between men and women ignores how women have had to fight for equality.
The part on equality is a joke.
Putting necessity ahead of idealism contradicts the right.
The charge of change for the sake of change by conservatives has been used to oppose civil rights protections, and helping those in need.
Now I have to sleep for church in the morning.


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leejosepho
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28 May 2017, 8:57 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Even if it was just that episode, it still goes to show you that those traditional conservative values the right continues to harp on were in fact nothing worth holding on to.

So none of these are worth holding onto?:

Quote:
...the Traditional structure of society...that the family is the basic structure of human society...

...either immigration or unemployment can exist but not both at the same time.

...marriage...community...

...financial solvency...

...freedom of religion...

...social, political and economic stability.

...the Traditional family...

...each segment of society should enjoy respect commensurate with their support for stability...

...Government should be loyal to the people...

...employers and employees are (or at least should be) on the same side...

...men and women need each other, both on a personal and societal level...

...there will always be rich and poor and the poor and weak need and deserve protection...

...victims of crime deserve justice and serious crime deserves serious punishment.

...Traditional authority and its rightful place...

...equality of all before the Law...

http://uponhopeblog.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... tives.html

I think few people would object to most of those, but they would have to be the actual practice of the majority with no legislators anywhere nearby.


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28 May 2017, 2:15 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Even if it was just that episode, it still goes to show you that those traditional conservative values the right continues to harp on were in fact nothing worth holding on to.

So none of these are worth holding onto?:

http://uponhopeblog.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... tives.html

Sounds like as good a Creed as any, to ME, as I agree with almost everything, there.

I had a little trouble with 1 and 2, particularly..... In no. 1: I don't know that I "believe in" "different social classes", cuz that sounds a little like "know your place" / "stay in your lane", or whatever----and, I certainly feel that if one CAN work themselves up to, like, a higher pay scale, for instance, that they should be allowed that. Also, I don't "believe in" "different sex roles", in the sense that I don't feel it's proper to say "I'M not gonna take-out the trash----that's YOUR job", or something like that. I DO, however, agree with that family should be the basic structure, as opposed to the individual or government, because I feel that "family" could ALSO be construed as "one family / one nation"-type thing.

In no. 2, I'm thinking they mean "that cannot be DIScounted", then I'm okay with that one.

Some of my favorites, are:


We reject the transfer of authority, wealth and influence from the family to Government. We contend that the transfer should end and indeed reverse.

We do not believe in change for change sake.

We believe that extremes are only rarely of value and that moderation is normally the best policy.

We believe that the Government should be loyal to the people and that the people should return that loyalty.

We believe in man's fallibility and imperfection. ... We believe we need to strive to do our best as our imperfections stalk us.

We believe in good policy and not in feel good politics.

We believe in Traditional authority and its rightful place. We believe in respect for the Government and in respect for the rule of law and the institutions of Law. We believe in respect for our Armed Forces, Law Enforcement and Emergency Services. We further believe that that respect must be returned or respect can turn to contempt.

Finally we believe in human nature and that we have answers, but we know we do not have all the answers...


The last 3, there, being my absolute favorites----the first one, because of "today's" climate; the second one, because I feel that could very well be a MAJOR part of the problems between some black people, and some police; and the third one (again, of the last three, there), I think, is important for ALL of us, to remember----and then, because of my Christian faith, I especially like the last part of the sentence (that I cut-off, to make a point):

for that you must seek a higher authority than man.

**************************************************************************
**************************************************************************

Sidebar: It seems Ezra is crusading against people speaking so matter-of-factly----and, if he is, I like that cuz I have also campaigned against it (quite vigorously, at times). (Some people just don't get that speaking so matter-of-factly is just totally UN-COOL, though----or, they DO, and choose not to care, because they get more out of REFUSING to conform, so that they can whine about not being accepted, instead.)





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