Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Why is there only one begotten son of God? Is he you?

Page 1 of 4 [ 51 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,142
Location: temperate zone

09 Jun 2017, 7:28 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
WitlessWit wrote:
Assuming there is one god seems a bit optimistic.


Assuming that there is ONE god seems...optimistic.

What does that mean?


Do you mean assuming ONLY one? As opposed to many gods?


What, in terms of numbers, does this indicate.

You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

Regards
DL

Well...I assume he means that "thinking that there is even one god is optimistic".

But since he emphasized the number one the sentence is ambiguous.

Does he mean "the fewer gods the better"?, Does he mean "the more gods the better"? Or does he mean "less then one is bad, more than one is bad, and only the quantity of one is good"? Or what does he mean?



WitlessWit
Butterfly
Butterfly

Joined: 7 Jun 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 16
Location: Mid Western United States

09 Jun 2017, 8:17 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
WitlessWit wrote:
Assuming there is one god seems a bit optimistic.


Assuming that there is ONE god seems...optimistic.

What does that mean?


Do you mean assuming ONLY one? As opposed to many gods?

The one thing every god has in common is, they all spring from the mind of man. None of them exist.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,142
Location: temperate zone

10 Jun 2017, 8:04 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
Let me add to the question.

If there is only one begotten son, who are the sons of God spoken of in the O.T.?

Who mothered them?

Regards
DL


That's a good question. The New Testament has the one "son of God" who is supposed to be our savior.

But thousands of years earlier there are those baffling chapters of Genesis in which God says "we" (as if he is addressing an entourage), and there are these numerous "sons of god" (who are definitely not humans) who follow god around and help him out. They seemed to be angel like beings, but they aren't called "angels". But these sons of god would get randy for "the daughters of men", and they knocked up quite a few of those said "daughters of men". And that resulted in offspring who were "giants", and "men of renown". Sounds too weird even for the Jerry Springer show to me!



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

10 Jun 2017, 5:14 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
WitlessWit wrote:
Assuming there is one god seems a bit optimistic.


Assuming that there is ONE god seems...optimistic.

What does that mean?


Do you mean assuming ONLY one? As opposed to many gods?


What, in terms of numbers, does this indicate.

You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

Regards
DL

Well...I assume he means that "thinking that there is even one god is optimistic".

But since he emphasized the number one the sentence is ambiguous.

Does he mean "the fewer gods the better"?, Does he mean "the more gods the better"? Or does he mean "less then one is bad, more than one is bad, and only the quantity of one is good"? Or what does he mean?


To me, it means exactly what it says.
That there are other Gods and that Yahweh, with that first commandment, is commanding us to not put them ahead of him.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

10 Jun 2017, 5:22 pm

WitlessWit wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
WitlessWit wrote:
Assuming there is one god seems a bit optimistic.


Assuming that there is ONE god seems...optimistic.

What does that mean?


Do you mean assuming ONLY one? As opposed to many gods?

The one thing every god has in common is, they all spring from the mind of man. None of them exist.


Of the supernatural kind, I agree.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

10 Jun 2017, 5:30 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Let me add to the question.

If there is only one begotten son, who are the sons of God spoken of in the O.T.?

Who mothered them?

Regards
DL


That's a good question. The New Testament has the one "son of God" who is supposed to be our savior.

But thousands of years earlier there are those baffling chapters of Genesis in which God says "we" (as if he is addressing an entourage), and there are these numerous "sons of god" (who are definitely not humans) who follow god around and help him out. They seemed to be angel like beings, but they aren't called "angels". But these sons of god would get randy for "the daughters of men", and they knocked up quite a few of those said "daughters of men". And that resulted in offspring who were "giants", and "men of renown". Sounds too weird even for the Jerry Springer show to me!


If we were all to read the bible in the esoteric ecumenist way that Gnostic Christians do, we would likely be able to dither that out, but most do not.

For instance, a giant, to me, means the elite.

Remember that in ancient days, emperors declared themselves to be Gods, and their sons, sons of God.
I cannot see anyone really understanding the bible when believing in the supernatural.

Regards
DL



AspieUtah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Brigham City, Utah

10 Jun 2017, 5:56 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
...If we were all to read the bible in the esoteric ecumenist way that Gnostic Christians do, we would likely be able to dither that out, but most do not.

For instance, a giant, to me, means the elite.

Remember that in ancient days, emperors declared themselves to be Gods, and their sons, sons of God.
I cannot see anyone really understanding the bible when believing in the supernatural...

The gnostics were indeed quite esoteric. They were also opposed by the prevailing government of their time. Engaging in parables and similes probably help them survive. Referring to elites as giants was simply a way to obfuscate while teaching knowledge. John the Baptist and Jesus were likely quite familiar with the teachings of the Essenes, Nazarenes and Ebionites of their time (or, was it that the gnostics were likely quite familiar with the teachings or John and Jesus). Either way, there was much winking and nodding among the members of the Judean People's Front and/or the People's Front of Judea.

Had early Roman Christians known about the gnostic writings, we would be living in a different world.


_________________
Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)


GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

10 Jun 2017, 6:49 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
...If we were all to read the bible in the esoteric ecumenist way that Gnostic Christians do, we would likely be able to dither that out, but most do not.

For instance, a giant, to me, means the elite.

Remember that in ancient days, emperors declared themselves to be Gods, and their sons, sons of God.
I cannot see anyone really understanding the bible when believing in the supernatural...

The gnostics were indeed quite esoteric. They were also opposed by the prevailing government of their time. Engaging in parables and similes probably help them survive. Referring to elites as giants was simply a way to obfuscate while teaching knowledge. John the Baptist and Jesus were likely quite familiar with the teachings of the Essenes, Nazarenes and Ebionites of their time (or, was it that the gnostics were likely quite familiar with the teachings or John and Jesus). Either way, there was much winking and nodding among the members of the Judean People's Front and/or the People's Front of Judea.

Had early Roman Christians known about the gnostic writings, we would be living in a different world.


Indeed.

A world with a lot less intolerance, homophobia and misogyny that the mainstream Christian and Muslim religions have gifted us with.

May they rot in the hell they invented.

Regards
DL



WitlessWit
Butterfly
Butterfly

Joined: 7 Jun 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 16
Location: Mid Western United States

10 Jun 2017, 8:30 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
WitlessWit wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
WitlessWit wrote:
Assuming there is one god seems a bit optimistic.


Assuming that there is ONE god seems...optimistic.

What does that mean?


Do you mean assuming ONLY one? As opposed to many gods?

The one thing every god has in common is, they all spring from the mind of man. None of them exist.


Of the supernatural kind, I agree.

Regards
DL

Right. Calling the life force that animates all living things god, sure. No qualms with naturalistic god. Supernatural deity existing beyond the laws of space and time, nah. Calling whatever generated the circumstances which brought about space-time god, sure. Mind reading eternal torturer extraordinaire, nah.



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

11 Jun 2017, 1:42 pm

WitlessWit wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
WitlessWit wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
WitlessWit wrote:
Assuming there is one god seems a bit optimistic.


Assuming that there is ONE god seems...optimistic.

What does that mean?


Do you mean assuming ONLY one? As opposed to many gods?

The one thing every god has in common is, they all spring from the mind of man. None of them exist.


Of the supernatural kind, I agree.

Regards
DL

Right. Calling the life force that animates all living things god, sure. No qualms with naturalistic god. Supernatural deity existing beyond the laws of space and time, nah. Calling whatever generated the circumstances which brought about space-time god, sure. Mind reading eternal torturer extraordinaire, nah.


+ 1

Regards
DL



Knofskia
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 552
Location: Michigan

14 Jun 2017, 2:28 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
A world with a lot less intolerance, homophobia and misogyny that the mainstream Christian and Muslim religions have gifted us with.

May they rot in the hell they invented.

"May they rot in hell" does not sound very tolerant.

My Christian religion taught me that all people have sinned, but that God saved everyone (Jew and Gentile, Christian and Muslim, Agnostic and Atheist, etc.). Like God, we are taught to forgive and love everyone. So, although I may see an action as a sin and not condone the action, I still forgive the person, not just tolerating them but loving them like God does.

Other Christians who choose to not only condemn the action but also condemn the person are examples that the sin in the world affects everyone. They too need God's forgiveness and love... as do I.


_________________
31st of July, 2013
Diagnosed: Autism Spectrum Disorder, Auditory-Verbal Processing Speed Disorder, and Visual-Motor Processing Speed Disorder.

Weak Emerging Social Communicator (The Social Thinking-­Social Communication Profile by Michelle Garcia Winner, Pamela Crooke and Stephanie Madrigal)

"I am silently correcting your grammar." :lol:


Cash__
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Nov 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,390
Location: Missouri

14 Jun 2017, 4:19 pm

I think first you have to define which definition of the word beget you are talking about. Here are two definitions copy and pasted from a dictionary:

- to cause (something) to happen or exist
- to procreate as the father of (someone)

If we're talking the first one, then everything is begotten by God (if God is real.) If the second, then no one is begotten by God that i am aware of. In myths maybe yes, but not in real life. I see no evidence for holy spirits entering people and dropping ectoplasm.



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

14 Jun 2017, 6:58 pm

Knofskia wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
A world with a lot less intolerance, homophobia and misogyny that the mainstream Christian and Muslim religions have gifted us with.

May they rot in the hell they invented.

"May they rot in hell" does not sound very tolerant.

My Christian religion taught me that all people have sinned, but that God saved everyone (Jew and Gentile, Christian and Muslim, Agnostic and Atheist, etc.). Like God, we are taught to forgive and love everyone. So, although I may see an action as a sin and not condone the action, I still forgive the person, not just tolerating them but loving them like God does.

Other Christians who choose to not only condemn the action but also condemn the person are examples that the sin in the world affects everyone. They too need God's forgiveness and love... as do I.


I find your words strange given the fact that your God does what you would chastise me for doing.

You say I should love the sinner while hating the sin, yet your God shows hate to the sinner when he sends him to hell and death.

You say God saved everyone. Are you saying that hell is a lie then?

If so, what is that wide road to hell and narrow road to heaven that scriptures talk about?

BTW, what sin did you do that deserved eternal hell or death?

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

14 Jun 2017, 7:04 pm

Cash__ wrote:
I think first you have to define which definition of the word beget you are talking about. Here are two definitions copy and pasted from a dictionary:

- to cause (something) to happen or exist
- to procreate as the father of (someone)

If we're talking the first one, then everything is begotten by God (if God is real.) If the second, then no one is begotten by God that i am aware of. In myths maybe yes, but not in real life. I see no evidence for holy spirits entering people and dropping ectoplasm.


Well, since the O. T. speaks of many sons of God and names them Nephalim, and pocreate the good old fashioned way, your logic indicates holy penis delivered ectoplasm.

Regards
DL



Knofskia
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 552
Location: Michigan

15 Jun 2017, 11:00 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
Knofskia wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
A world with a lot less intolerance, homophobia and misogyny that the mainstream Christian and Muslim religions have gifted us with.

May they rot in the hell they invented.

"May they rot in hell" does not sound very tolerant.

My Christian religion taught me that all people have sinned, but that God saved everyone (Jew and Gentile, Christian and Muslim, Agnostic and Atheist, etc.). Like God, we are taught to forgive and love everyone. So, although I may see an action as a sin and not condone the action, I still forgive the person, not just tolerating them but loving them like God does.

Other Christians who choose to not only condemn the action but also condemn the person are examples that the sin in the world affects everyone. They too need God's forgiveness and love... as do I.


I find your words strange given the fact that your God does what you would chastise me for doing.

You say I should love the sinner while hating the sin, yet your God shows hate to the sinner when he sends him to hell and death.

You say God saved everyone. Are you saying that hell is a lie then?

If so, what is that wide road to hell and narrow road to heaven that scriptures talk about?

BTW, what sin did you dothat deserved eternal hell or death?

Regards
DL

In the beginning, God made us in His perfect image. When we sinned, that sin separated us from God's perfection. God had condemned that sin and that sin condemns us.

But God loves us and does not want us to die and go to hell, so he sent Jesus to save us from that condemnation. Our time on this earth is our time of grace, our time to repent of our sins and accept that gift of salvation from hell.

That does not mean that we cannot reject that gift, but since only one man ever lived a perfect life, no one will be able to earn that salvation themselves.

Our imperfect lives are the sins that deserve eternal separation from God which is hell. When I hate my brother, when I say something that hurts my sister, when I fail to do something kind, I fail to lead the perfect life that God wants.


_________________
31st of July, 2013
Diagnosed: Autism Spectrum Disorder, Auditory-Verbal Processing Speed Disorder, and Visual-Motor Processing Speed Disorder.

Weak Emerging Social Communicator (The Social Thinking-­Social Communication Profile by Michelle Garcia Winner, Pamela Crooke and Stephanie Madrigal)

"I am silently correcting your grammar." :lol:


GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

15 Jun 2017, 11:22 am

Knofskia wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Knofskia wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
A world with a lot less intolerance, homophobia and misogyny that the mainstream Christian and Muslim religions have gifted us with.

May they rot in the hell they invented.

"May they rot in hell" does not sound very tolerant.

My Christian religion taught me that all people have sinned, but that God saved everyone (Jew and Gentile, Christian and Muslim, Agnostic and Atheist, etc.). Like God, we are taught to forgive and love everyone. So, although I may see an action as a sin and not condone the action, I still forgive the person, not just tolerating them but loving them like God does.

Other Christians who choose to not only condemn the action but also condemn the person are examples that the sin in the world affects everyone. They too need God's forgiveness and love... as do I.


I find your words strange given the fact that your God does what you would chastise me for doing.

You say I should love the sinner while hating the sin, yet your God shows hate to the sinner when he sends him to hell and death.

You say God saved everyone. Are you saying that hell is a lie then?

If so, what is that wide road to hell and narrow road to heaven that scriptures talk about?

BTW, what sin did you dothat deserved eternal hell or death?

Regards
DL

In the beginning, God made us in His perfect image. When we sinned, that sin separated us from God's perfection. God had condemned that sin and that sin condemns us.

But God loves us and does not want us to die and go to hell, so he sent Jesus to save us from that condemnation. Our time on this earth is our time of grace, our time to repent of our sins and accept that gift of salvation from hell.

That does not mean that we cannot reject that gift, but since only one man ever lived a perfect life, no one will be able to earn that salvation themselves.

Our imperfect lives are the sins that deserve eternal separation from God which is hell. When I hate my brother, when I say something that hurts my sister, when I fail to do something kind, I fail to lead the perfect life that God wants.


You seem to have forgotten that Jesus said that we are the light of the world. Not the garbage you seem to think we are.

I see that you could not answer my question and just decided to spout more of your dogmatic B.S.
No wonder the church is asking for more apologist as their numbers decline in the West.
So let me counter your B.S. with what this moral Bishop has to say about your immoral view of God.
If you wish to argue or debate, I am here for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9g ... gest-vrecs

Regards
DL