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The_Blonde_Alien
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08 Jun 2017, 12:18 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
Well, the OP is transgender (M2F)----so, I don't understand this rant. You posted that your parents had trouble accepting your transition----did they tell you your gender had to be EARNED----is that why you're holding others, to the same standard (cuz you figure if you had to do it, then they do too)?

If that's what you're doing----how could you, when you know how difficult it has been with your parents not being accepting of you? Are you bitter because of this, and figure that now you'll screw-it-to others?


Look, I'm gonna tell a personal story of mine so that you can make sense of this. And yes you're right, I have pretty much betrayed my own kind with this post I made.

Where do I even begin? :roll:

Back then, before the 2016 U.S. elections began, I was just like everybody else when it came to Donald Trump; I didn't like him and I couldn't take him very seriously as a politician. I even had a theory back then that suggested that Trump (using his reality TV skills) was purposely trying to be worst presidential candidate on purpose so that Hilary Clinton could have an easy victory at the elections.

...But alas that wasn't the case. And I couldn't be any more disillusioned than that moment where I woke up in the morning and saw that Trump won.

So what did I do in response?

Instead of whining about it and perhaps participating in some protests against him, I went deep into the rabbit hole that was the far right, conservative republican party.

You see I wanted to make sense out of Trump's victory; I just couldn't sincerely believe that he was the president of the United States...

...And so, I listen to every conservative and anti-SJW video I could find, even the transphobic ones, so that I could finally feel comfortable with the fact that a man so dispicable asl Donald Trump has won the presidency.

...but It looks like I went far too deep into the far-right rabbit hole, so much so that I became subconsciously transphobic. And now I am ashamed of that. I'll try to be more open minded about gender pronouns next time. :roll:

And yet here I am, proven wrong about the concept of gender. Thank you guys for correcting me on this! I wouldn't have realised how open the concept of gender is if it wasn't for you all! :)


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Last edited by The_Blonde_Alien on 08 Jun 2017, 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kiprobalhato
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08 Jun 2017, 12:19 am

glad to hear it. :)


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ASPartOfMe
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08 Jun 2017, 10:15 am

BuyerBeware wrote:
IDK-- I get the frustration with the continual attitude of, "yesterday I was female, today I'm male, tomorrow I might be demigirl... But I WILL EAT YOUR SOUL IF YOU DON'T USE THE RIGHT PRONOUN!!" One of my daughter's longstanding friends is a transmale (or F2M, or whatever term I'm 'supposed' to use this week) who cannot transition due to a bleeding disorder (thus, elective surgery is heavily discouraged). He has taken a lot of abuse in the last couple years-- not from his parents, and not even so much from conservative Christian or stereotypical redneck peers, but mostly from Pronoun People who don't think he's "trans enough." Really?? Trans enough?? He's 15 years old; he's been struggling with this since puberty (that I know of). "Trans enough"?? Gag me with a pronoun.

I'm honestly very close to being asexual, aromantic, and androgynous (except I have this problem with wanting kids, and to be a mom/parent (except I mother more like my father than most mothers), and to have companionship in the form of "a friend I can keep," which means a significant other, which means sex...). Have been, basically, for as long as I can remember. I could see myself, if I were a young person now, trying on label after label after label until I found one that "fit." I did that with religions for a while-- I was a Baptist, no Church of Christ, no agnostic, no nondenominational Christian, no Pagan, no Unitarian Universalist... Until I finally decided it was all a bit silly, there probably wasn't a box I fit completely inside, and I would just call myself "a believer, one who goes around believing in things" or "a universal apostate." Seems similar to me, and I'm too old to play musical genders with myself, so... screw it, I'm an autistic woman with a very low sex drive, severe proximity defensiveness, lame frumpy unfeminine clothes, and a crappy unfeminine personality.

I'm all for acceptance for as many genders as they want to dream up, or the idea that gender should be a spectrum instead of a binary, or just throwing out the boxes and the "should be's" and behavioral and personality dictums based on genitalia. BUT. If you are going to change your identification every few days/weeks, no, you don't have a right to howl "Transphobia!! Microaggression!!" every time someone uses last week's pronoun or the one you were using the last time they knew you. If you are going to "transition" that often, yeah, you probably gotta be a little cool with the fact that not everyone is gonna be able to keep up all the time.


Is not the label for your daughters friend "genderfluid"? Or is that already out of style?


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kraftiekortie
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08 Jun 2017, 10:32 am

I think "genderfluid" is going to be around a long time.



The_Blonde_Alien
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08 Jun 2017, 5:42 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I think "genderfluid" is going to be around a long time.


Why do you think that?


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kraftiekortie
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08 Jun 2017, 5:47 pm

Because "genderfluid" is quite illustrative. It implies flexibility. It's a positive feeling. It means you're not stuck.



Cash__
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08 Jun 2017, 9:13 pm

I will use whatever pronouns people request me to use. Its called manners.



The_Blonde_Alien
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08 Jun 2017, 10:20 pm

Cash__ wrote:
I will use whatever pronouns people request me to use. Its called manners.


Image


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ltcvnzl
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08 Jun 2017, 10:34 pm

I don't see much point in discuss with people about their pronouns, just be nice, it doesn't affect your life. Although I find a bit difficult to use "they" as neutral.



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09 Jun 2017, 7:04 am

Reading threads like these and their responses I'm starting to feel like I must be a certified bad person and closeted alt-righter. Or at least that's the brow-beating hypnosis that seems to be taking place.

As far as I can tell the chasm of what allows for a culture that can communicate in any remotely effective way is being crossed for - the best I can read of it - amounts to people's right to virtue-signal. This topic rubs me particularly wrong because I'm 50 miles from Canada cross a small body of freshwater and I'm well aware of the compelled speech in C-16. You already have people at the activist end, at confirmed televised events, trying to sue show hosts and the like for misgendering them. If someone uses the term 'social justice tribunal' to talk about extra-legal groups across Canada who can dole out fines without due process, fines that a person can face jail time for not paying, it sounds like something that someone would say who's been watching too much Alex Jones and Info Wars and they probably believe in shape-shifting reptilian overlord as well but....erm... alas, no, that's actually correct - the social justice tribunals are actually there.

Most of what people are concerned about with the heavy-handedness and clouded thinking that's in all of this legislation seems to be playing itself out and about the only positive thing I can think of that might be happening is that enough legal experts across the isle from where it's happening might be able to do a few things here and there to roll back the damage.

As far as I can tell this isn't properly about trans either. Really even just looking at gender as binary covers both standard 'cis' men and women as well as trans men and women. This whole thing should be a non-issue and to whatever extent it is a real issue it's been handled in the worst way possible - ie. trotted out with legal ramifications before the notions are even fully baked. The idea of 31 gender pronouns is just preposterous because out of that number maybe only five at the most will find any sort of consistent use.


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kraftiekortie
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09 Jun 2017, 9:44 am

If I make a mistake with a gender pronoun, don't get pissed off about it-----just inform and educate me.

This is what too many people do these days: get mad, make it seem like everything is a "microaggression" or whatever.

How am I supposed to know, based upon a face, that you don't want to be referred to as "he" or "she?" Just inform me, man.....and I'll say the proper pronoun from now on.

I've never actually had somebody say they want to be referred to as something other than "he" or "she."



naturalplastic
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09 Jun 2017, 10:48 am

The OP seems to have done a turn-around and to have disavowed the question in the original post.

So I guess that the issue (whatever the heck the issue was) is dead.

So we can all retire this thread.



ASPartOfMe
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09 Jun 2017, 11:09 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
If I make a mistake with a gender pronoun, don't get pissed off about it-----just inform and educate me.

This is what too many people do these days: get mad, make it seem like everything is a "microaggression" or whatever.

How am I supposed to know, based upon a face, that you don't want to be referred to as "he" or "she?" Just inform me, man.....and I'll say the proper pronoun from now on.

I've never actually had somebody say they want to be referred to as something other than "he" or "she."


Be patient with us old folks. As a person was not diagnosed with autism until age 55 I understand better then most people that things can go unrecognized for centuries and when it does start getting reconition people think it is a fad and attention seeking. And there will be people trying to jump on what they see as trendy or just want to experiment who are really traditional and because of this people are going use these examples to dismiss the whole gender and sexual identity social revolution going on now.

Most of my life there have been only a few gender, sexual identities and orientations recognized. And SEEMINGLY out of nowhere in the last 3 years or so there are dozens or so of them. It is pretty confusing. Some of the dismissiming of this is willful ignorece and deliberate attempts to stamp out the change. But most of the appearent microagressions and worse are ignorance. People have lives to live, families to feed and there is so much information overload these days that it is understable most not involved won't really get it.

At when you are my age you have seen many things touted as revolutionary change that did turn out to be fads (and the opposite) so we do have a skeptism born from that.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 09 Jun 2017, 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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09 Jun 2017, 12:31 pm

BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:
gender = binary.


Funny, tell that to the cultures that have third genders. :wink:


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09 Jun 2017, 4:17 pm

I will usually refer to someone by their preferred pronouns with two exceptions.
1. The one that's start with Z, for the mere fact that I find it confusing and can't keep the words straight.

2. The person has given me a very big reason to doubt they are actually of the gender the claim or envision themselves to be.

For example there was a man on Youtube who identified as female and dressed as female, however it was discovered that this man was a registered sex offender and had forcefully penetrated/raped a child. I refuse to refer to this man using female pronouns and I do not perceive this man as female in any way. Certainly not all or even most males are rapists, but violently raping someone using one's male genitalia is as far from a female thing to do as someone can get, and my impression of this man was that he was an autogynophiliac.

I may refer to someone using their preferred pronouns, however that does not mean I perceive them as the gender of their preferred pronouns. They do have a burden of proof to meet in that they must evanesce the essence of their claimed gender.

There is also the component of gender that is acquired by living life being related to as that gender, and certain insights one gains being related to in a particular way. Most transgendered individuals lack this at first, however it can be acquired. Caitlyn Jenner is a good example of this. I have no problem referring to Caitlyn Jenner as female, as to me she does seem very female gendered and always has, however she has made comments which reflect a lack of insight of experiencing life being related to as a female, though she acknowledges this and is learning.



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09 Jun 2017, 4:31 pm

Chronos wrote:
I may refer to someone using their preferred pronouns, however that does not mean I perceive them as the gender of their preferred pronouns. They do have a burden of proof to meet in that they must evanesce the essence of their claimed gender.


Isn't that the essence of the the premise? Nobody should thought police, nobody can force their identity on others.

People are free to perceive other's identity how they want.

Trans people wouldn't be called trans if there it wasn't difference. It refers to transition. Plenty of trans people agree with this, and don't agree with the idea of parity of gender identity and sex, nor the absurd position that some hold that biological sex is a social construct.

Examples:



Here is the source videos



Here is the same individual trying to guilt people for having sexual preferences.


the criticism