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Britte
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16 Jul 2017, 12:18 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
Britte wrote:
.................. Forgive me, as I am aware this likely isn't entirely (if at all) on topic.


No forgiveness needed, it's good to hear other peoples personal experiences IMO


Thank you! I concur.



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16 Jul 2017, 3:24 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
"Distrust" is the common denominator between anxiety and true paranoia.

But with shyness and social anxiety and the like its as much distrust of one's self as it is distrust of others. That you're gonna screw up and look bad, or be made to look bad.

Paranoia is when you think that your coworker is growing his sideburns out so it will hide the microphones he will wear on in his ear to communicate with the spymasters at the Vatican (or at the CIA, or at the Kremlin, or wherever) who keep tabs on you. Not quite the same thing as social anxiety.


I don't think 'Distrust' is the common denominator between anxiety & paranoia.

And you seem to have chosen the worse case of paranoia to prove your point without thinking about the grey areas.
in between.


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Britte
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17 Jul 2017, 12:59 am

SaveFerris wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
"Distrust" is the common denominator between anxiety and true paranoia.

But with shyness and social anxiety and the like its as much distrust of one's self as it is distrust of others. That you're gonna screw up and look bad, or be made to look bad.

Paranoia is when you think that your coworker is growing his sideburns out so it will hide the microphones he will wear on in his ear to communicate with the spymasters at the Vatican (or at the CIA, or at the Kremlin, or wherever) who keep tabs on you. Not quite the same thing as social anxiety.


I don't think 'Distrust' is the common denominator between anxiety & paranoia.

And you seem to have chosen the worse case of paranoia to prove your point without thinking about the grey areas.
in between.


Could you, perhaps, describe what the grey areas would look like? Thank you!
By the way, I wish to thank you for posting this topic. This thread has been enlightening, and most applicable to some of the difficulties that I currently, contend with.



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17 Jul 2017, 6:28 am

Britte wrote:
Could you, perhaps, describe what the grey areas would look like? Thank you!
By the way, I wish to thank you for posting this topic. This thread has been enlightening, and most applicable to some of the difficulties that I currently, contend with.


It's difficult for me to articulate as I have no medical background and only personal experience to go on. I think the word paranoia has different meanings depending on the persons personal experience and it has been adopted into the mainstream lexicon to mean things that just seem like anxiety.
I have never had a medical professional tell me I had paranoia OTOH I have never had them correct me when I've told them I had paranoia until about 2 years ago.
I do think I have paranoid thoughts but they are based in anxiety over past experiences. I think if you have anxiety and tend to over analyse things with an almost obsessional quality you can create a paranoia and the line between anxiety & paranoia is blurred and difficult to separate.
What I'm basically trying to say is there doesn't have to be a conspiracy involving government agency's for it to be paranoia , when it gent's to this point it's being delusional.
As for the grey areas , unwarranted jealousy is paranoia and personally I think social anxiety is a type of paranoia.
I'm sorry I can't explain myself the way I want to , but this is the best I can do.


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Britte
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17 Jul 2017, 11:35 am

Actually, your explanation is thought provoking and answered my question. Interesting, your thoughts on a connection between paranoia and jealousy. I am, apparently, missing the jealousy chip (along with a few other chips). But that's neither here nor there, in terms of the topic at hand.

From my perspective, I think naturalplastic hit the nail on the head, in terms of his description of what paranoia presents as, and he was in fact, describing some of the paranoid thinking of his friend. But, there is likely, a spectrum, like, with anything, these days. Perhaps you can be paranoid, but, not in the context of his description. I, actually, do think that delusional thinking and paranoia can go hand in hand. But, I am not well-versed on the subject, so, I could be entirely, wrong. I can say this - one of my jobs I do, entails working with a large percentage of narcissistic folks, and, I have witnessed some extremely paranoid thinking on some of their parts. Not saying all people who are on the N spectrum experience paranoid, or delusional thinking, but, plenty do. Anyway, thanks for this thought provoking discussion.

edit: I have had a taste of what it is like to feel paranoid, and I have experienced delusional thinking, in the aftermath of the trauma I experienced, due to a phenomenon my ASD therapist referred to, as 'splitting'. It was a sort of, subconscious, self-preservation/self-protection mechanism that, naturally happened, which apparently can keep a person from having an all-out 'psychotic break'. It was a single episode, but, I was told it could happen, multiple times, throughout the period of time it took, for my mind to process what had occurred/the traumatic event.



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17 Jul 2017, 2:17 pm

Yeah I definitely had some Narcissistic traits in the past , I'm not sure if I just learned them off a friend ( who definitely fits the criteria for NPD ) because I don't have them anymore including jealousy which is weird as it almost feels like I don't care anymore. Do you see Narcissistic traits in my writing?

I've never heard of 'splitting' but had a few delusional episodes in the past which led to 'psychotic breaks' ( these are my definitions not Doctors ) , my first one was possibly due to drugs ( Doctors say it was toxic psychosis ) but consequent breaks were identical but without drugs. I wish I had a better defense mechanism when I was delusional as it would saved a lot of trauma.


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17 Jul 2017, 3:03 pm

Quote:
Paranoid delusions affect different people with schizophrenia differently but here is the description of one person, David, who experienced paranoia in the early stage of a schizophrenic break down:

“First of all I began to believe that people were following me. Now I had for some time had an acrimonious dispute with my next door neighbour over an issue of noise and I knew that he was not averse to doing things intended to annoy me, so when I noticed that I was being followed I immediately put the blame on him or one of his friends.

However, over the next nine months my perceptions of being spied on progressively expanded to really massive proportions. I started to believe that my post was being intercepted, that my ‘phone was bugged, that microphones and secret cameras had been concealed in the walls of my house and my office. And these were not simply suspicions: I became very quickly convinced of these things and no amount of reasoning would shake that belief.

As the illness developed these ideas coalesced into a larger belief, again unshakeable, that I was at the centre of a huge conspiracy involving a very large number of people with enormous power who, for reasons I could not comprehend, were spying on me and harassing me.

I took these suspicions to various official agencies including BT, the Royal Mail and the police and shared them with friends and family but ultimately the help that they offered became useless because as time went on I became convinced that those people were also part of the conspiracy.

It is very difficult to describe my state of mind at the end of that process. Frantic with fear I took to sleeping with a knife under my pillow and furniture piled up against the bedroom door so that no one could get into my room while I was asleep. That is when I could sleep”.

Faced with such an enormous perceived threat the person with schizophrenia will often retreat into their room or their house to try to escape from those seeking to cause them harm. They will often try to defeat their oppressors. For instance if they think they are being followed they will take erratic and circuitous routes in order to confound those trailing them. In a few cases they may also try to fight back against their enemies physically.



https://www.livingwithschizophreniauk.o ... -paranoia/



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecutory_delusion



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17 Jul 2017, 8:16 pm

I've definitely been in a similar dark place that David describes in your quote firemonkey , it's probably happened about 4 times in my life but never as bad as David and I have always been able to recognize that they are delusions ( so maybe delusion is not the correct term ) but the fact I even thought something was afoot was the kicker - I thought I was going insane or schizophrenic or both.
The quote also reminds me of a time I was in the funny farm and this guy showed me a letter he had received back from the Chief of Police & Houses Of Parliament stating that they would investigate the strange "Rays" that this dude was complaining about , I actually thought it was poor taste for them to even write back such a letter as the dude was clearly delusional about these mind control 'Rays' and it only fueled his delusion , this ragged , sellotaped , folded up faded letter that he always kept in his pocket was the definitive proof he needed to prove it wasn't in his mind. The memory of him has been etched into my psyche forever , this poor old dude wandering around the ward muttering 'the rays , the rays'.

Edit: I should also say that those two links you provided and the surfing I did from those links was an engrossing read and I'm questioning Schizophrenia again - I swear to god if someone posted a link to a fictitious disease I could somehow skew my perception into thinking I might have it :lol:


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Britte
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18 Jul 2017, 5:17 am

SaveFerris wrote:
Yeah I definitely had some Narcissistic traits in the past , I'm not sure if I just learned them off a friend ( who definitely fits the criteria for NPD ) because I don't have them anymore including jealousy which is weird as it almost feels like I don't care anymore. Do you see Narcissistic traits in my writing


hi, SaveFarris. No, you don't seem, at all, narcissistic to me, although, you've been a bit critical and slightly, narrow minded, within some of your responses to naturalplastic, but we all do so, from time to time. Generally speaking, you have come accross as kind, considerate, compassionate and helpful to others. ...and, extremely inquisitive and self-examining, none of which point to being narcissistic/a narcissist, in my humble opinion.



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18 Jul 2017, 5:36 am

firemonkey, the bottom tier of the pyramid is what I experience, with the exception of 'thinking the world is a dangerous place'. I have always felt safe in the world, for the most part. But, I do, experience 'fears of rejection' and 'feelings of vulnerability'. At times, to a debilitating degree...

It was interesting to read what you've linked...



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18 Jul 2017, 9:26 am

Britte wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Yeah I definitely had some Narcissistic traits in the past , I'm not sure if I just learned them off a friend ( who definitely fits the criteria for NPD ) because I don't have them anymore including jealousy which is weird as it almost feels like I don't care anymore. Do you see Narcissistic traits in my writing


hi, SaveFarris. No, you don't seem, at all, narcissistic to me, although, you've been a bit critical and slightly, narrow minded, within some of your responses to naturalplastic, but we all do so, from time to time. Generally speaking, you have come accross as kind, considerate, compassionate and helpful to others. ...and, extremely inquisitive and self-examining, none of which point to being narcissistic/a narcissist, in my humble opinion.


It's funny that you say that I have been critical and narrow minded in my responses to natruralplastic as the reason for the style of my reply was because I thought he was thinking in black & white , I do tend to speed read and my mind may not fill the gaps correctly and sometimes I have to read a post several times before I realize the actual meaning. I've stopped posting on social media due to knee jerk reactions to comments I've read , it's almost as the instant I post I read the post the way it was meant and have to apologize for the misinterpretation.


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Britte
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18 Jul 2017, 12:47 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
Britte wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Yeah I definitely had some Narcissistic traits in the past , I'm not sure if I just learned them off a friend ( who definitely fits the criteria for NPD ) because I don't have them anymore including jealousy which is weird as it almost feels like I don't care anymore. Do you see Narcissistic traits in my writing


hi, SaveFarris. No, you don't seem, at all, narcissistic to me, although, you've been a bit critical and slightly, narrow minded, within some of your responses to naturalplastic, but we all do so, from time to time. Generally speaking, you have come accross as kind, considerate, compassionate and helpful to others. ...and, extremely inquisitive and self-examining, none of which point to being narcissistic/a narcissist, in my humble opinion.


It's funny that you say that I have been critical and narrow minded in my responses to natruralplastic as the reason for the style of my reply was because I thought he was thinking in black & white. I do tend to speed read and my mind may not fill the gaps correctly and sometimes I have to read a post several times before I realize the actual meaning. I've stopped posting on social media due to knee jerk reactions to comments I've read , it's almost as the instant I post I read the post the way it was meant and have to apologize for the misinterpretation.


I used to do the same. I still do, but, far less than I had been. I have been working on changing/limiting/eliminating this trait I possess. It has been a work in progress. It can seem as if the part of the wiring in my brain that is responsible for thinking to take a step back and look at things from multiple perspectives, is faulty. It is one of the things about myself, that I am trying to get a good handle on. I have also contemplated on whether this trait has something to do with the way my mind responds to, or rejects injustice.

Do you have knowledge of, or, experience with EEG therapy? It is helping me to even out, so to speak. It calmed the rapid firing that took place in my brain, in the aftermath of the trauma I experienced, and it has, since helped me, profoundly, with other difficulties that I experience. My thoughts and emotions have been evolving. I am thinking more rationally, about most things, and I have far more control over my emotions, respectively, than I had, prior to EEG treatments. I still experience the occasional, trigger response, but they have deminished in intensity and have become fewer and farther, between. It has proven to be, extremely effective in resolving some additional difficulties I have worked to overcome, related to anxiety, calming my nerves, sensory processing and OCD behaviors, and, some other hardships I've experienced, resulting from ASD.



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18 Jul 2017, 3:16 pm

Britte wrote:

I used to do the same. I still do, but, far less than I had been. I have been working on changing/limiting/eliminating this trait I possess. It has been a work in progress. It can seem as if the part of the wiring in my brain that is responsible for thinking to take a step back and look at things from multiple perspectives, is faulty. It is one of the things about myself, that I am trying to get a good handle on. I have also contemplated on whether this trait has something to do with the way my mind responds to, or rejects injustice.

Do you have knowledge of, or, experience with EEG therapy? It is helping me to even out, so to speak. It calmed the rapid firing that took place in my brain, in the aftermath of the trauma I experienced, and it has, since helped me, profoundly, with other difficulties that I experience. My thoughts and emotions have been evolving. I am thinking more rationally, about most things, and I have far more control over my emotions, respectively, than I had, prior to EEG treatments. I still experience the occasional, trigger response, but they have deminished in intensity and have become fewer and farther, between. It has proven to be, extremely effective in resolving some additional difficulties I have worked to overcome, related to anxiety, calming my nerves, sensory processing and OCD behaviors, and, some other hardships I've experienced, resulting from ASD.


Sounds like you've come a long way which is encouraging to read. Just did a quick google of EEG therapy , it sounds interesting , did you have to control a video game with your mind ( that sounds like the best therapy in the world ). I definitely need to get help with anxiety, calming my nerves, sensory processing and OCD behaviors but don't know if ASD is a real issue ( If I have ASD it's not my worst problem , thats for sure )


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Britte
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22 Jul 2017, 11:22 am

^If you haven't done so, already, you might find a few videos pertaining to EEG treatment, on YouTube, or on the main EEG site. I had, initially, viewed a video in my psychologist's office, of a war veteran who had returned home from Afghanistan to find living with symptoms of PTSD, impossible. At that time, I was hopeless, however, listening to him, changed my attitude, tremendously, and it made me determined. He had been far worse off, than I was, and the treatment was effective for his condition. Since that time, EEG has been proven effective for treating other matters of the brain, certain types of disabilities, some neurological functioning, ADHD, Anxiety, Sensory difficulties and other conditions, and I just listened to an interesting interview, via an Invisibilia podcast, regarding the effectiveness of EEG on a woman's Alexathymic traits. Not that Alexathymia applies to you, per se, but I found it to be quite interesting and moving, so, perhaps I will see if I can post the link, here, in case you (or anyone else) might find it of value.

I hope your weekend is off to a great start. Although, I suppose it's half over, since it appears you are in the UK. Funny, before I noticed your location, I thought you were in Michigan, in the US. I wonder what gave me that idea. Perhaps, it was a member, who's writing and/or avatar is similar in nature. Rambling, now.



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22 Jul 2017, 7:06 pm

Yeah , I'll check some videos out but I don't think it's a viable option , I doubt they do it on the NHS and I definitely can't afford therapy. If you find the link please post it.

I think your behind me regarding timezones , your post came in Fri afternoon so the whole weekend ahead of me , have a great one yourself.


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26 Jul 2017, 1:22 am

I was unable to link the podcast, here. However, I might be able to do it, by going through a different channel.