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SaveFerris
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12 Jun 2017, 6:56 pm

People who have paranoid thinking or ASD are sometimes unable to read between the lines.

Is a there a difference between Paranoid Thinking & ASD when it comes to not being able to read between the lines.


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starkid
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19 Jun 2017, 12:37 pm

I thought the problem with paranoia was reading between the lines too much.



SaveFerris
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19 Jun 2017, 5:28 pm

starkid wrote:
I thought the problem with paranoia was reading between the lines too much.


That was my initial though too but I read this ,
No.4 Distorted Reality
The paranoid person imposes a biased view on the actual world. Their thought processes go from belief to evidence. A paranoid person generally listens and watches only for specific clues that interest him, which tie into suspicious beliefs. For instance, in a conversation with a coworker, he overlooks nuances and misses the true intent as he fails to read between the lines, instead focusing on what he wants to see.


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starkid
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19 Jun 2017, 7:01 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
he overlooks nuances and misses the true intent as he fails to read between the lines, instead focusing on what he wants to see.

Well I guess the difference is that the paranoid person is reading things that aren't there and the person with AS didn't naturally learn that there is anything between the lines to read at all.



SaveFerris
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20 Jun 2017, 3:42 am

starkid wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
he overlooks nuances and misses the true intent as he fails to read between the lines, instead focusing on what he wants to see.

Well I guess the difference is that the paranoid person is reading things that aren't there and the person with AS didn't naturally learn that there is anything between the lines to read at all.


I suppose that makes sense , I only asked because when I'm overly stressed or ill I have read things that are not there which seems a lot like what I think paranoia is.

I'm trying to work out if I could always read between the lines ( and got paranoid ) or struggled to read between the lines and tried to learn it using faulty logic causing me cognitive problems.


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CharityGoodyGrace
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14 Jul 2017, 7:27 am

Some paranoid people, because they can't read between the lines at this point, assume to be safe that everyone is out to get them... I've done that and know some schizophrenics AND some autistics who have done this.



firemonkey
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14 Jul 2017, 7:46 am

Interesting thread. I am dxed with paranoid PD. Whilst freely admitting I'm prone to paranoia I hotly dispute the dx.
This is because text book definitions of such people describe them as aggressive and confrontational. I am actually avoidant and fearful.

My paranoia and social anxiety stemmed from bullying and peer rejection,especially as a teenager,due to my physical and social awkwardness.



CharityGoodyGrace
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14 Jul 2017, 1:07 pm

What Firemonkey said.

People rejected me so I learned to be shy, to avoid the humiliation of rejection, in the hope that some people would come along and see I wasn't rejected (but that was because I wasn't getting involved!!) so they would hopefully see that I was therefore friend material... f****d up, I know.



SaveFerris
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14 Jul 2017, 11:42 pm

CharityGoodyGrace wrote:
Some paranoid people, because they can't read between the lines at this point, assume to be safe that everyone is out to get them... I've done that and know some schizophrenics AND some autistics who have done this.


That's interesting , as the only symptom I have that doesn't really fit ASD is paranoia ( although I have been told it's anxiety )


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naturalplastic
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15 Jul 2017, 12:27 am

CharityGoodyGrace wrote:
Some paranoid people, because they can't read between the lines at this point, assume to be safe that everyone is out to get them... I've done that and know some schizophrenics AND some autistics who have done this.


Total BS.

I have never met an autistic with paranoid thinking. And Ive never meet a paranoid person who had autistic tendencies.

I have know both ASD folks and NTs with paranoid tendencies. And the two group do not operate the same way.

"Paranoid" does not mean just "fearful", or "reluctant". It means that you think that there are groups conspiring against you.

If you're afraid to interact with folks, or talk about things, out of fear of ridicule, or being set up to be bullied/humiliated then that's a common aspie/autistic trait. And its the product of being bullied and ridiculed as a school kid. Its a rational survival adaptation. Why set foot in a minefield if you know ahead of time that its a minefield? Or for you it would be a minefield.

True paranoia involves beliefs in conspiracy: the belief that you are so important that folks wont just ridicule you, but are actually conspiring against you.

A guy I know who is an NT with paranoid tendencies will walk through an outdoor crowd at say, some summer festival, and he (like all of us) will notice that folks in the crowd will reach for the cells just as he walks by. But unlike the rest of us he wont dismiss it as a coincidence.

He will be convinced that all of these folks reached for their cells as he walked by BECAUSE he walked by, because all of these folks work for the same some bearuacracy and are all reporting to their boss about my friends movements about town (ie my buddy assumes that he is so damned important that the government, or whomever, keeps that kind of tabs on him). That's not just being shy, and that has nothing to do with having been bullied by peers in school, and it has nothing to with any inability "to read between the lines" of a conversation with anyone. Its flat out delusional thinking. Completely different thing from autistic social ineptitude, and the shyness that results from that.



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15 Jul 2017, 12:57 am

IMO the long-term effects of being socially clueless can have the effect of making one rather paranoid. If you're natural naivete has caused you to be taken advantage of repeatedly, and you've been heartbroken multiple times because you couldn't accurately read what others were thinking or how they really felt about you, the resultant humiliation can make you very mistrustful of what others say and do.

Similar experiences with authority figures, and/or people you trust, because you misread their meaning or intentions and got blindsided by either an unexpected emotional reaction, or something didn't turn out the way you expected because you completely misread the situation, can naturally cause you to doubt and second-guess almost anything you're told, and even come to feel you can't trust anyone to actually say what they mean, or do what they promise.

It's certainly had that effect on me. I can't take anything at face value, without looking suspiciously for hidden meanings or deception. I don't trust my own judgement enough to just assume everything is kosher. I've been painfully wrong too many times before.


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15 Jul 2017, 1:40 am

I fell into a psychotic depression around the time me & my 1st girlfriend broke up & I become paranoid as a result. I felt like bad things were going to happen to her if I wasn't there to save her. I believed my parents were plotting to have me committed. At times I thought everyone but me & my ex were something like robots that were just programed to respond to our behaviors. At other times I felt like the doctors I saw as a kid had done evil experiments on me that made me as f#cked up as I was. At other times I thought something bad was going to happen & it would be up to me to save the world. My paranoia gradually got better after I was put on Lexapro, Abilify & Lithium. I was on Lithium because of the mood swings; my GP who 1st treated me for my issues thought I was bipolar. I think screwing up the relationship due to my Aspergers, anxiety & OCD caused me to become depressed & lose my grip on reality. I just didn't know what was real & what wasn't with her & when things got worse I didn't know what was real & wasn't with other things & people.

As for as reading between the lines I desperately tried in that relationship because there were some problems & I really wanted to make things work. She was my special interest & my OCD & anxiety caused me to over analyze & put things together that didn't belong & I sort of slipped.


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firemonkey
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15 Jul 2017, 7:01 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Total BS.

I have never met an autistic with paranoid thinking. And Ive never meet a paranoid person who had autistic tendencies.

I have know both ASD folks and NTs with paranoid tendencies. And the two group do not operate the same way.

"Paranoid" does not mean just "fearful", or "reluctant". It means that you think that there are groups conspiring against you.

If you're afraid to interact with folks, or talk about things, out of fear of ridicule, or being set up to be bullied/humiliated then that's a common aspie/autistic trait. And its the product of being bullied and ridiculed as a school kid. Its a rational survival adaptation. Why set foot in a minefield if you know ahead of time that its a minefield? Or for you it would be a minefield.

True paranoia involves beliefs in conspiracy: the belief that you are so important that folks wont just ridicule you, but are actually conspiring against you.

A guy I know who is an NT with paranoid tendencies will walk through an outdoor crowd at say, some summer festival, and he (like all of us) will notice that folks in the crowd will reach for the cells just as he walks by. But unlike the rest of us he wont dismiss it as a coincidence.

He will be convinced that all of these folks reached for their cells as he walked by BECAUSE he walked by, because all of these folks work for the same some bearuacracy and are all reporting to their boss about my friends movements about town (ie my buddy assumes that he is so damned important that the government, or whomever, keeps that kind of tabs on him). That's not just being shy, and that has nothing to do with having been bullied by peers in school, and it has nothing to with any inability "to read between the lines" of a conversation with anyone. Its flat out delusional thinking. Completely different thing from autistic social ineptitude, and the shyness that results from that.


An interesting reply. I am not totally sure whether there is a total disconnect between social anxiety and paranoia. I tend to call my reluctance to engage with people, out of fear of being ridiculed and bullied, paranoia. This is because I find it hard to trust people .
I have been prone to questioning to myself whether people online are genuine or adopting fake personalities. I don't know whether worrying that people don't like you (my concern over lack of replies for example) is minor paranoia or just a big dollop of low self esteem and insecurity .

I don't assume the kind of thing your buddy assumes though, though I can be prone to thinking that I give off signs unintentionally of being in some way physically or socially 'odd' .

I certainly don't think there's a universal conspiracy against me. I might question the motives of people at times , but this is very much because of past life experiences ie the teenage, and to a latter degree childhood and adult ,ridicule I have sometimes endured.

I v



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15 Jul 2017, 7:26 am

will@rd wrote:
IMO the long-term effects of being socially clueless can have the effect of making one rather paranoid. If you're natural naivete has caused you to be taken advantage of repeatedly, and you've been heartbroken multiple times because you couldn't accurately read what others were thinking or how they really felt about you, the resultant humiliation can make you very mistrustful of what others say and do.

Similar experiences with authority figures, and/or people you trust, because you misread their meaning or intentions and got blindsided by either an unexpected emotional reaction, or something didn't turn out the way you expected because you completely misread the situation, can naturally cause you to doubt and second-guess almost anything you're told, and even come to feel you can't trust anyone to actually say what they mean, or do what they promise.

It's certainly had that effect on me. I can't take anything at face value, without looking suspiciously for hidden meanings or deception. I don't trust my own judgement enough to just assume everything is kosher. I've been painfully wrong too many times before.


Ditto to all of this. Same experiences and resulting effects. I couldn't have explained it better.



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15 Jul 2017, 9:23 am

naturalplastic wrote:
CharityGoodyGrace wrote:
Some paranoid people, because they can't read between the lines at this point, assume to be safe that everyone is out to get them... I've done that and know some schizophrenics AND some autistics who have done this.


Total BS.

I have never met an autistic with paranoid thinking. And Ive never meet a paranoid person who had autistic tendencies.

I have know both ASD folks and NTs with paranoid tendencies. And the two group do not operate the same way...........


I see by your opening statement you feel strongly about this ( which is not crime )
I do get the feeling ( maybe it's paranoia :lol: ) that there seems to be a lot of black & white thinking from Aspies ( I wonder why :lol: ) towards certain mental illness symptoms as if they are trying to distance themselves from it due to stigma ( which I can understand when you read about horrific crimes committed by Aspies ). I can also understand that there are some people who will look for any other reason why they are suffering other than the mental illness symptoms they suffer due to the stigma involved ( i.e less stigma involved with being an Aspie than a nutjob ). For me just being told I'm a nutjob is enough but I haven't even been told that.
So basically your basing your theory on people you've met and the definition of paranoia , have you ever thought that paranoid people don't tend to tell others they are paranoid especially about things that they know are a little crazy. Most people I meet think I'm one of the sanest people they've met yet I always feel like the nutjob in the room.

naturalplastic wrote:
A guy I know who is an NT with paranoid tendencies will walk through an outdoor crowd at say, some summer festival, and he (like all of us) will notice that folks in the crowd will reach for the cells just as he walks by. But unlike the rest of us he wont dismiss it as a coincidence.

He will be convinced that all of these folks reached for their cells as he walked by BECAUSE he walked by, because all of these folks work for the same some bearuacracy and are all reporting to their boss about my friends movements about town (ie my buddy assumes that he is so damned important that the government, or whomever, keeps that kind of tabs on him). That's not just being shy, and that has nothing to do with having been bullied by peers in school, and it has nothing to with any inability "to read between the lines" of a conversation with anyone. Its flat out delusional thinking.

In your example you say when the stranger reaches for his phone your friend believes the worst but you dismiss it as a coincidence like the rest of us. I'm pretty sure people with healthy minds don't even need to dismiss it as it's just a bloke on a phone , if you need to tell yourself it's coincidence then that's a sign of a cognitive error.
The rest of what you describe is delusional but this is worst case scenario paranoia and obviously some people are more paranoid than others.
It is not known what causes paranoia ( well not in all cases ) and whose to say that someone who may have mild paranoid tendencies isn't going to get a lot worse when 'reading between the lines' becomes an issue due to ASD.

I don't think there is enough facts out there to just totally dismiss it , well not for me anyway especially as paranoia is mentioned in most Aspie textbooks ( I'm guessing that fact as I haven't even finished 1 book yet ).


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15 Jul 2017, 9:53 am

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... id-are-you

I scored 13. So just within the bottom 50%. I wonder how other Aspies ,diagnosed or self diagnosed,will score.