Steve Scalise Shot during GOP Baseball Practice

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androbot01
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15 Jun 2017, 12:27 pm

Quote:

While Scalise dragged himself to safety, Griner and Bailey lept into action. In an extended firefight, the two agents took down shooter James Hodgkinson while battling through injuries of their own. Both were taken to the hospital after the gunfight, and are recovering from their injuries, officials say.

Heavy: The Hero Cops Who Prevented a Congressional ‘Massacre’

GoonSquad
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15 Jun 2017, 12:28 pm

androbot01 wrote:

Washington Post: Suspect’s friend said he is ‘not evil,’ believes he was fed up with politicians

This really disturbs me and makes me think that this baseball practice incident may be the first volley of much greater violence.

Quote:

“I guess I just want to let people know that he’s not evil,” Walsh said outside Hodgkinson’s home in Belleville, Ill. “I guess he was tired of some of the politics going on. Like in this state, we have politicians collecting a check and doing absolutely nothing for us.”

"I guess he was tired of some of the politics going on." This attempt to justify Hodgkinson's actions is really disturbing. It is an attempt to justify political violence. I can't believe someone would think that the shootings on the baseball field were anything but evil. They certainly weren't justifiable.

No, this is not justifiable, but it is understandable. As I said before, this is what happens when people feel disenfranchised and disempowered politically.

The more either side marginalizes the other with extreme policies, abuse of power, etc. the more this kind of thing will happen.

This is not new. See the Gracchi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracchi

Quote:

The Gracchus brothers, Tiberius and Gaius, were Romans who both served as tribunes in the late 2nd century BC. They attempted to pass land reform legislation that would redistribute the major aristocratic landholdings among the urban poor and veterans, in addition to other reform measures. After achieving some early success, both were assassinated by enemies of these reforms.

These guys used populist politics and abused their power/office to push their agenda through. With no other recourse, their opponents resorted to violence to stop them. This, more than any other event, marked the beginning of the end of the Roman Republic.

The US is evenly divided politically. Both sides need to cool their rhetoric and learn to compromise again or violence will happen more often and the US republic will fail too.

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GoonSquad
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15 Jun 2017, 12:58 pm

SH90 wrote:

EzraS wrote:

SH90 wrote:

EDIT:
I will disagree with EzraS on the coverage for people on ACA. At least the ones who have most of it covered by tax papers. They often have far superior coverage then the ones who actually pay for it for them.

I meant employer provided "affordable" healthcare. Now those people can bypass that and go with a plan offered by healthcare dot gov instead, but those plans are just as bad as the employer offered ones - unless they're subsidized. The folks getting it subsidized are getting a great deal. And I certainly understand their worry over losing it. But I don't believe that's the plan.

As long as the employers plan is considered comprehensive. They wouldn't qualify for a government subsidy in the marketplace. They can still decline employer coverage, but they would be paying full price for Obamacare... I have seen in a few instances where single people my age, get nearly free coverage with stupid low out of pocket and deductibles. But they are young and healthy, most don't use it.

Look, I understand why young, healthy, higher income people would resent the ACA. During my 20s and 30s I was uninsured, I made a lot of money and I would not have qualified for subsidies and I would have HATED Obamacare.

But, in my 40s I was lucky enough to have access to some good, cheap ($100/month) gold plan insurance via my school. It was a good thing too. In the last 4-5 years I went from extremely fit to very sick, and I've racked up about $500,000.00 in medical bills--that's pre-insurance prices. My insurance company settled for about a third of that, which is pretty typical...

You can cry about tax payers paying for poor people's health insurance, but if I was not covered, tax payers would have been stuck with a half-million dollar medical bill for me.

Unless we start denying people medical care based on their ability to pay, we need to find a way to make sure everyone has coverage.

So, unless you are prepared to step over uninsured people dying in the street (and that could be you), we need to come up with a sensible way to pay for everyone's care. The ACA doesn't do that, but the GOP plan is even worse.

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15 Jun 2017, 2:26 pm

Huzzah for the Second Amendment!

androbot01
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15 Jun 2017, 2:38 pm

GoonSquad wrote:

No, this is not justifiable, but it is understandable. As I said before, this is what happens when people feel disenfranchised and disempowered politically.

It was a strike against the government. I wonder if the civil war has already begun.

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15 Jun 2017, 3:02 pm

@cyberdad: Didn't Trump denounce David Duke?

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friedmacguffins
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15 Jun 2017, 3:24 pm

Trump's answer to radical Reconstruction --
"When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice."

And, there is a conspiracy theory, about Trump's Jewish son-in-law, leveraging financial influence, to achieve Mid East peace.

If I was David Duke, Trump would not have to denounce me; I would have to call Trump the lesser of two evils.

jrjones9933
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15 Jun 2017, 3:28 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

@cyberdad: Didn't Trump denounce David Duke?

I'll answer. First, Trump met Duke, and said he didn't want Duke in the Freedom Party. Then, when Duke endorsed Trump for president, Trump said he never heard of the guy and would not denounce Duke or the other racists who endorsed him for months on end. Finally, Trump made a tepid denunciation.

He met the minimum standard for a denunciation, after dragging his heels for months.

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GoonSquad
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15 Jun 2017, 4:20 pm

androbot01 wrote:

GoonSquad wrote:

No, this is not justifiable, but it is understandable. As I said before, this is what happens when people feel disenfranchised and disempowered politically.

It was a strike against the government. I wonder if the civil war has already begun.

I don't think we will ever see another civil war in the US. Any rebellion would be ruthlessly crushed by the military first.
However, I do think we could see a lot more civil unrest and a lot more political assassination.

On the upside, Congressmen/Senators might stop acting like as*holes if they think it could get them killed.

Many Dems and GOP[h]ers are all over cable news today calling for a 'toning down' of partisan rhetoric.

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androbot01
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15 Jun 2017, 4:56 pm

GoonSquad wrote:

I don't think we will ever see another civil war in the US. Any rebellion would be ruthlessly crushed by the military first.

The military is made up of people. Their views are probably as opposed to the other as the rest of the population's. If the States start shifting, who knows what will happen.

Jacoby
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15 Jun 2017, 8:17 pm

Seems like people are rationalizing this use of political violence, if you think its that things are bad then its not going to get better with violence because it's going to have the opposite effect. You're not going to 'scare' Republicans into doing what you want, you're going to harden their resolve and escalate the violence.

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15 Jun 2017, 8:32 pm

Jacoby wrote:

You are rationalising this act as if it was part of an organised left wing conspiracy. Hodgekinson was a lone wolf with personal gripes against republicans.

kraftiekortie
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15 Jun 2017, 8:32 pm

We're not in a civil war.

Just another nut (yes there are both left wing and right wing nuts; this one was a left wing nut).

The vast majority of people are rational people who can have opinions, but don't have to get violent about them.

cyberdad
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15 Jun 2017, 8:42 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

@cyberdad: Didn't Trump denounce David Duke?

jrjones9933 wrote:

Then, when Duke endorsed Trump for president, Trump said he never heard of the guy and would not denounce Duke or the other racists who endorsed him for months on end. Finally, Trump made a tepid denunciation.
He met the minimum standard for a denunciation, after dragging his heels for months.

Yes this was my analysis as well. According to the Huff post Trump has been consistently evasive or non-committal on publicly taking a position on David Duke.

kraftiekortie
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15 Jun 2017, 8:48 pm

Trump said he didn't know David Duke from Adam, basically. And I believe him.

He didn't keep up on this stuff until recently. He really was not much of a politician until this idea about becoming President cropped up circa 2015.

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15 Jun 2017, 8:49 pm

EzraS wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Lest we forget
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassina ... rack_Obama

So their plan is to break that record? Maybe they already have. In less than a year even.

SH90 wrote:

Threats are made on presidents and other government officials all the time, and they all should be taken seriously... Very rarely does someone take action.

Does anyone remember what happened to Ronnie Reagan when he went from B grade actor to right wing maniac?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted ... ald_Reagan

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