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Trump calls GOP health care plan "mean"

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Kraichgauer
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22 Jun 2017, 1:54 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
friedmacguffins wrote:
How many trees does it take, to produce 50,000lbs of pecans.

I have only germinated about 6, so far.

Also, may I take legal credit for all the labor, which they have performed, for your intellectual property, the land, and the matériel.

Why or why or why not?

Does anti-social behavior, on my part, make me seem more agreeable.

Why, or why not.


Way to change the subject after I blew your nonsensical assertions out of the water! Good job. :roll:

The point is, there is no way to justify depriving needy people of basic resources like food or even healthcare. Thanks to technology the labor one person can feed thousands and produce vast amounts of excess wealth.

Even if you want to push some sort of twisted argument about fairness and who's entitled to the benefits of that operation I described, it still fails.

By not paying a living wage and or providing health insurance, my boss was creating a burden on society because society had to subsidize his employees with things like medicaid and SNAP. My employer directly benefited from this because he needs well fed, healthy employees to work for him.

Therefore, fairness demands that he should either compensate his employees adequately OR he should pay an adequate amount of taxes to compensate the state for their subsidies--not to mention other things such as schools, roads, police and fire protection, and court systems that allow him to run a successful business.

As Elizabeth Warren observed:

Quote:
There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory... Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.



Capitalist parasites need to pay their employees, or pay their goddamn taxes.

As people on the right are so fond of pointing out, there's no free lunch.

:)

If people do not want to contribute to the common good of society, they need to pull a John Galt and GET THE f**k OUT. Then we'll see who actually suffers for it... :P


Sir, I salute you for that statement! :salut:


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friedmacguffins
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22 Jun 2017, 2:19 pm

So, just to be obnoxiously-clear, then, you do believe in private property, afterall. I shouldn't commit theft, in the name of the greater good.

I do not have a problem with survivable wages, and I am a legal employer. I am formally allowed to put people on a pay-roll. I have said, before, that even slaves and peasants were entitled to life support. So is a beast of burden, and a food animal. You would maintain an inanimate tool, and keep it out of the sun. So, why not the human.

I just don't believe that competitive employment can exist, when there is endless credit and social welfare. It's impossible for me to earn, by the sweat of my brow, as much as any careless person can borrow. So, the cost of basic things has no limit.

I have never personally known any person, on any of these programs, without lots of luxuries, although their slack drives up expenses.

Now, let's be mean, but just for hyperbole. Let's take the healthy and the lecher off public assistance.

Could you afford to work for the naughty slumlord, slavedriver employer. Or, does the situation force him to rework his business model.

Will you feed a real bastard, or will everyone have to be very-sociable.

I am constructive and will render help, where it is deserved and appreciated. I am the person you want for a boss, coworker, or neighbor.



Kraichgauer
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22 Jun 2017, 6:42 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
So, just to be obnoxiously-clear, then, you do believe in private property, afterall. I shouldn't commit theft, in the name of the greater good.

I do not have a problem with survivable wages, and I am a legal employer. I am formally allowed to put people on a pay-roll. I have said, before, that even slaves and peasants were entitled to life support. So is a beast of burden, and a food animal. You would maintain an inanimate tool, and keep it out of the sun. So, why not the human.

I just don't believe that competitive employment can exist, when there is endless credit and social welfare. It's impossible for me to earn, by the sweat of my brow, as much as any careless person can borrow. So, the cost of basic things has no limit.

I have never personally known any person, on any of these programs, without lots of luxuries, although their slack drives up expenses.

Now, let's be mean, but just for hyperbole. Let's take the healthy and the lecher off public assistance.

Could you afford to work for the naughty slumlord, slavedriver employer. Or, does the situation force him to rework his business model.

Will you feed a real bastard, or will everyone have to be very-sociable.

I am constructive and will render help, where it is deserved and appreciated. I am the person you want for a boss, coworker, or neighbor.


Again, the primary reason why people need public assistance is because business has failed to share the wealth. Did you know that that a$$hole mine owner who went to prison for withholding safety measures for the sake of a buck is still getting his eighty million dollar golden parachute? Just think how many coal miner's jobs could be saved if that money could have been redirected to them. Sure, not every businessman is of that low caliber, but unfortunately too many are.
If someone will go without food and medical care without help, they're deserving.
As for so called slackers enjoying luxuries - why can't people have nice things every once in a while? I know of no law saying you have to have x amount of wealth before you can have a blu-ray player.


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auntblabby
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23 Jun 2017, 7:21 am

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StinkyDog
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23 Jun 2017, 9:24 am

friedmacguffins wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Churches really aren't very charitable, and are, in fact, failing. Hence, the government must step in.

Would that have anything to do with intentionally demoralizing, and impoverishing people, in order to create a secular welfare state?

How many can you rescue, before criticizing others. Do you practice what you preach, under voluntarism, or must you be coerced, by state interests, until every last person is successful. Also, are you under a vow of abject poverty, like an ascetic.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgfARhTOjMg



StinkyDog
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23 Jun 2017, 9:28 am

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StinkyDog
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23 Jun 2017, 9:50 am

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LoveNotHate
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23 Jun 2017, 3:24 pm

Four Senate conservatives oppose Obamacare Lite.

Sens. Rand Paul (R-Ky.)
Mike Lee (Utah)
Ted Cruz (Texas) and
Ron Johnson (Wis.)

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3390 ... epeal-bill



GoonSquad
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23 Jun 2017, 3:49 pm



VOX has a good summary...


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Kraichgauer
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23 Jun 2017, 5:31 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Four Senate conservatives oppose Obamacare Lite.

Sens. Rand Paul (R-Ky.)
Mike Lee (Utah)
Ted Cruz (Texas) and
Ron Johnson (Wis.)

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3390 ... epeal-bill


Only because they think it's not draconian enough. Gotta punish those poor people! :evil:


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cyberdad
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23 Jun 2017, 5:39 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Four Senate conservatives oppose Obamacare Lite.

Sens. Rand Paul (R-Ky.)
Mike Lee (Utah)
Ted Cruz (Texas) and
Ron Johnson (Wis.)

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3390 ... epeal-bill


Only because they think it's not draconian enough. Gotta punish those poor people! :evil:


Or in neo-capitalist jargon "how do we get more milk out of the cow"



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23 Jun 2017, 8:50 pm

My guess is 95% of those who bellyache about the poor do little to nothing on a personal level to help them. Much less help them on a regular basis. They cry about the poor on Twitter and make lots of memes etc. But my guess is in reality they do squat to help. It's all just a lot of political posturing.



Kraichgauer
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23 Jun 2017, 11:54 pm

EzraS wrote:
My guess is 95% of those who bellyache about the poor do little to nothing on a personal level to help them. Much less help them on a regular basis. They cry about the poor on Twitter and make lots of memes etc. But my guess is in reality they do squat to help. It's all just a lot of political posturing.


And conservatives do?
There's only so much an individual can do.
And how do you know liberals do little but b***h about caring for the poor? Sounds like something the rights dreams up to bash the left.


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24 Jun 2017, 12:42 am

EzraS wrote:
My guess is 95% of those who bellyache about the poor do little to nothing on a personal level to help them. Much less help them on a regular basis. They cry about the poor on Twitter and make lots of memes etc. But my guess is in reality they do squat to help. It's all just a lot of political posturing.

If you get a chance read Charles Dickens to get a rough idea of how life was like in pre-union industrial England when workers were totally reliant on the "good will" of their fabulously wealthy employers and there were no bleeding heart lefties around to "bellyache" about the poor



EzraS
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24 Jun 2017, 1:04 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
My guess is 95% of those who bellyache about the poor do little to nothing on a personal level to help them. Much less help them on a regular basis. They cry about the poor on Twitter and make lots of memes etc. But my guess is in reality they do squat to help. It's all just a lot of political posturing.


And conservatives do?
There's only so much an individual can do.
And how do you know liberals do little but b***h about caring for the poor? Sounds like something the rights dreams up to bash the left.


No Bill, it's my personal guess regarding the situation. My guess is most people don't even do what little they can. That their actions come no where near to the amount of crocodile tears they shed.



Kraichgauer
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24 Jun 2017, 1:52 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
My guess is 95% of those who bellyache about the poor do little to nothing on a personal level to help them. Much less help them on a regular basis. They cry about the poor on Twitter and make lots of memes etc. But my guess is in reality they do squat to help. It's all just a lot of political posturing.


And conservatives do?
There's only so much an individual can do.
And how do you know liberals do little but b***h about caring for the poor? Sounds like something the rights dreams up to bash the left.


No Bill, it's my personal guess regarding the situation. My guess is most people don't even do what little they can. That their actions come no where near to the amount of crocodile tears they shed.


And how do you know that? My church collectively raises money for local charities, so we can all take some credit for helping the needy. And everyone drops a quarter or two for collection for charities, which accumulates into quite a bit.


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