Pay-to-Stay Prisons: Yea or Nay?
Campin_Cat
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
18 Jun 2017, 6:11 pm
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pay-to-stay-jails/
An analysis by the Marshall Project and the Los Angeles Times of the more than 3,500 people who served time in Southern California’s pay-to-stay programs from 2011 through 2015 found more than 160 participants who had been convicted of serious crimes including assault, robbery, domestic violence, battery, sexual assault, sexual abuse of children and possession of child pornography.
They include a hip-hop choreographer who had sex with an underage girl; a former Los Angeles police officer who stalked and threatened his ex-wife; and a college student who stabbed a man in the abdomen during a street scuffle.
...
The region’s pay-to-stay jails took in nearly $7 million from the programs from 2011 through 2015, according to revenue figures provided by the cities. In attracting paying customers, some cities openly tout their facilities as safer, cleaner and with more modern amenities. The Santa Ana jail’s website, for example, notes that jail is a “highly disruptive experience” and promotes its jail as a place where criminals can serve their time in a “less intimidating environment.”
“The whole criminal justice system is becoming more and more about: How much money do you have? Can you afford better attorneys? Can you afford to pay for a nicer place to stay?” said John Eum, a detective with the Los Angeles Police Department who investigated the hip-hop choreographer.
...
Most pay-to-stay jails have a sales pitch centered around security, but defendants also comparison-shop like consumers for amenities and flexibility. After he pleaded no contest to statutory rape of a 14-year-old girl who attended his South L.A. church in 2011, Leonel Pelayo, then 45, compiled a list of every pay-to-stay jail he could find.
“County jail, you’re verbally abused, physically abused by everybody,” said Pelayo, who was a church leader. “I didn’t want to spend one day there.”
He eventually settled on the jail in Seal Beach, paying $18,250 for the privilege, jail records show.
“What I don’t agree with is people saying that’s not enough [punishment],” Pelayo said. “What’s the concept of punishment? Is it the time, or getting beat up every other day in jail?”
...
A legislative crackdown on drunk driving in the 1980s strained already overcrowded county jails, and a few small city jails with unused beds in Los Angeles County offered to take the spillover, as long as the inmate paid a daily rate for his or her costs. The applications poured in, many from inmates worried about the risk of assault in crowded county lockups. City jails in Orange County soon set up similar programs.
...
“We bend over backwards to make sure their basic needs are met. But they have to remember, it’s still a jail,” said Sgt. Steve Bowles, who runs Seal Beach’s pay-to-stay jail.
...
Thoughts?
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
18 Jun 2017, 6:21 pm
I didn't even know they existed.
A few months ago, I'd reached the end of my rope with my former psychiatrist and psychologist. They admitted, in so many words, they couldn't help me. Their therapies didn't work, neither did their worthless pills. Being homeless, I told them, "You know what? Why don't I just crash my car into a bank and go to jail? Maybe that'll be my best option. Free roof over my head, free meals, free medical care. Can't beat that."
I see other criminals beat me to the punch though they have to pay. I like the idea but would prefer it for those with non-violent crimes, like robbing banks, writing bad checks, running naked through a Seahawks game, etc.
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18 Jun 2017, 9:58 pm
No,prison is not suppose to be cosy and fun.You shouldn't enjoy the stay or want to go back.Its especially wrong in the case of violent criminals.They are supposed to be hoeing beans,not sitting in the AC playing video games and eating snack cakes.
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Campin_Cat
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19 Jun 2017, 10:04 am
A few months ago, I'd reached the end of my rope with my former psychiatrist and psychologist. They admitted, in so many words, they couldn't help me. Their therapies didn't work, neither did their worthless pills. Being homeless, I told them, "You know what? Why don't I just crash my car into a bank and go to jail? Maybe that'll be my best option. Free roof over my head, free meals, free medical care. Can't beat that."
I see other criminals beat me to the punch though they have to pay. I like the idea but would prefer it for those with non-violent crimes, like robbing banks, writing bad checks, running naked through a Seahawks game, etc.
Oh, Robin----I HATE that you're suffering, so.....
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
Campin_Cat
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Age: 62
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
19 Jun 2017, 10:09 am
Yep, that's, pretty much, the way *I* feel about it, TOO!! IMO, a prisoner's every waking moment should be them almost being eaten ALIVE, by the guilt of what they did (initially, anyway)----and then, them finding the fortitude, to improve themselves.
_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
jrjones9933
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Joined: 13 May 2011
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19 Jun 2017, 10:21 am
Yep, that's, pretty much, the way *I* feel about it, TOO!! IMO, a prisoner's every waking moment should be them almost being eaten ALIVE, by the guilt of what they did (initially, anyway)----and then, them finding the fortitude, to improve themselves.
Or, we could look at the facts of what typically happens in reality and reengineer our justice system to rehabilitate felons more often. With recidivism rates as high as these, a rational assessment would not endorse our current system. For state prisons:
I disapprove of a two-tier system based on wealth.
_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade
HauntedKnight
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Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Age: 47
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Location: Birmingham, England
25 Jun 2017, 9:25 pm
An analysis by the Marshall Project and the Los Angeles Times of the more than 3,500 people who served time in Southern California’s pay-to-stay programs from 2011 through 2015 found more than 160 participants who had been convicted of serious crimes including assault, robbery, domestic violence, battery, sexual assault, sexual abuse of children and possession of child pornography.
They include a hip-hop choreographer who had sex with an underage girl; a former Los Angeles police officer who stalked and threatened his ex-wife; and a college student who stabbed a man in the abdomen during a street scuffle.
...
The region’s pay-to-stay jails took in nearly $7 million from the programs from 2011 through 2015, according to revenue figures provided by the cities. In attracting paying customers, some cities openly tout their facilities as safer, cleaner and with more modern amenities. The Santa Ana jail’s website, for example, notes that jail is a “highly disruptive experience” and promotes its jail as a place where criminals can serve their time in a “less intimidating environment.”
“The whole criminal justice system is becoming more and more about: How much money do you have? Can you afford better attorneys? Can you afford to pay for a nicer place to stay?” said John Eum, a detective with the Los Angeles Police Department who investigated the hip-hop choreographer.
...
Most pay-to-stay jails have a sales pitch centered around security, but defendants also comparison-shop like consumers for amenities and flexibility. After he pleaded no contest to statutory rape of a 14-year-old girl who attended his South L.A. church in 2011, Leonel Pelayo, then 45, compiled a list of every pay-to-stay jail he could find.
“County jail, you’re verbally abused, physically abused by everybody,” said Pelayo, who was a church leader. “I didn’t want to spend one day there.”
He eventually settled on the jail in Seal Beach, paying $18,250 for the privilege, jail records show.
“What I don’t agree with is people saying that’s not enough [punishment],” Pelayo said. “What’s the concept of punishment? Is it the time, or getting beat up every other day in jail?”
...
A legislative crackdown on drunk driving in the 1980s strained already overcrowded county jails, and a few small city jails with unused beds in Los Angeles County offered to take the spillover, as long as the inmate paid a daily rate for his or her costs. The applications poured in, many from inmates worried about the risk of assault in crowded county lockups. City jails in Orange County soon set up similar programs.
...
“We bend over backwards to make sure their basic needs are met. But they have to remember, it’s still a jail,” said Sgt. Steve Bowles, who runs Seal Beach’s pay-to-stay jail.
...
Thoughts?
Jails (not prisons) serve as holding areas for people who have been arrested and who are pending charges for a crime or who are awaiting court court proceedings, to ensure they show up for their court dates. Most people are entitled to bail, meaning if they pay X sum of money, they are permitted to go free provided they show up for their court dates, however a large number of people can't afford bail. This creates plutocracy where more affluent individuals can leave and carry on with work and their lives, and pay bills and meet their financial responsibilities, while less affluent people must remain incarcerated for what can be days, weeks, months, or even years. This often results in job loss, and loss of home and property, as well as significant debt if the person had credit card bills with balances on them that there were unable to pay while incarcerated. Personally I believe that if a person is not a danger to society or another person, not a flight threat, and has a job, they should be released, and if the person is a danger or a flight threat, or does not have something to preoccupy their time such that their idleness may spawn vice, they should not be released. I don't think it should depend on how much money a person can pay. However in some states the law is currently such that the judge must set bail, even in instances where the person is charged with a serious violent crime, and the only way they have to keep the person incarcerated is to set the bail very high.
jrjones9933
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25 Jun 2017, 10:09 pm
Lots of people with sentences of less than a year stay in county jails, and some with longer sentences stay there waiting to get transferred, in addition to people charged with serious crimes who can't make bail. In fact, if someone gets swept up in a cop riot on a Saturday night, he could stay in jail until Monday until even appearing before a judge.
_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade
26 Jun 2017, 5:37 pm
People who have committed serious crimes should not be offered bail to begin with as there is always the potential that they could post it. This happened recently where someone who was charged with murder posted a million dollar bail. In fact people charged with murder often post bail while people who are charged with lesser and non-violent crimes sit in jail the length of their trial, all based on their respective net worths.
jrjones9933
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26 Jun 2017, 6:15 pm
I have problems with the system of cash bail. I think fines and bail should scale by wealth and income.
As I understand the system in Texas, people typically go to a city jail cell to stay a few nights, get arraigned, then either go home or to a larger county facility to serve a short sentence or to wait for transfer to a state prison and stay there typically for a year or more. At each step, the percentage of hardcore criminals increases.
People told me that the county jail was no picnic, but nothing like a state prison.
_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade
27 Jun 2017, 8:12 am
At first I thought this was some horrible dystopian idea where prisoners had to pay for 100% of their upkeep or have services withdrawn. I would be completely against that.
The idea itself is a pretty good one! It should reduce the burden on the public prison system, and therefore improve things for everyone. Ringfencing a certain amount of pay-to-stay funding for public prisons could also help.
My concern is that if rich people don't need to worry about going to public prisons, they have less reason to campaign for improvements in prison conditions - although to what extent do they do that anyway?
I think this is an idea that is worth trialling. Whatever works best is what we should do. We shouldn't just blindly follow our primitive ideologies.
28 Jun 2017, 8:51 pm
As I understand the system in Texas, people typically go to a city jail cell to stay a few nights, get arraigned, then either go home or to a larger county facility to serve a short sentence or to wait for transfer to a state prison and stay there typically for a year or more. At each step, the percentage of hardcore criminals increases.
People told me that the county jail was no picnic, but nothing like a state prison.
Many state prisons in Texas do not have air conditioning, and inmates have died from heat stroke due to this. The temperatures in some prisons there regularly exceed 100F.
Pig farms in Texas, on the other hand, are required to keep their facilities lower than 85F.
I suppose one can reason that the pigs never hurt anyone and don't deserve any punishment or discomfort, but if someone is locked in a cell, it's the responsibility of their jailers to see to their wellbeing and provide for their upkeep. A person who's sentence wasn't death shouldn't die from poor care during their incarceration.
jrjones9933
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28 Jun 2017, 9:33 pm
As I understand the system in Texas, people typically go to a city jail cell to stay a few nights, get arraigned, then either go home or to a larger county facility to serve a short sentence or to wait for transfer to a state prison and stay there typically for a year or more. At each step, the percentage of hardcore criminals increases.
People told me that the county jail was no picnic, but nothing like a state prison.
Many state prisons in Texas do not have air conditioning, and inmates have died from heat stroke due to this. The temperatures in some prisons there regularly exceed 100F.
Pig farms in Texas, on the other hand, are required to keep their facilities lower than 85F.
I suppose one can reason that the pigs never hurt anyone and don't deserve any punishment or discomfort, but if someone is locked in a cell, it's the responsibility of their jailers to see to their wellbeing and provide for their upkeep. A person who's sentence wasn't death shouldn't die from poor care during their incarceration.
Also, Texas came out first to state that they would not implement the Prison Rape Elimination Act. Rape is evidently part of the sentence in Texas.
_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade
28 Jun 2017, 11:30 pm
I'm not sure punishment is something worth seeking. I think Prisons' primary purpose is to quarantine dysfunctional citizens away from society.
If possible, rehabilitation would be a great thing to achieve, but will only work for a few people.
That isn't to say Prison should be super cozy or a resort, but I don't think it should be a place of torment everyday or cruel and unusual punishment. They should be given food and a bed and very basic accommodations.
Kraichgauer
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29 Jun 2017, 12:27 am
All this does is create a class structure in the prison system - as if prison wasn't bad enough. Soon, the rich defendants would be getting better treatment in their private jails in comparison to the poor living like pigs.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
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