The corruption of the autistic mindset...

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This quote was taken from another forum post.
Rather than going off topic there, I created another topic/thread here...
The original post can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=347264&p=7579030#p7579030

Yes, agreed...
I have been acutely aware of how so many aspies have been seduced into adopting NT social protocols.
This has been on my mind for decades, and I see it as unfortunate...

Complex topic...
Where do I begin?

There was a factual story about a male child being lost (or discarded) in a forest and adopted by a pack of wolves...
'Lyokha, Kaluga, Central Russia (December 2007) - He had been living with a pack of wolves, and had typical wolf-like behavior and reactions. He was unable to speak any human language. Taken to a Moscow hospital, he received some medical treatment, a shower and manicure for his overgrown nails, and several meals before escaping from the building.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child

I dare say most of us would agree that it would be unlikely this person would achieve a greater depth of self actualisation...

While this is an extreme case of social diaspora, I find this example a strong communication tool which highlights the point I am trying to make...

Assumption:
- The person was too young to have established a defined sense of self...

Human psychological mechanics:
- Infants are initially incapable of critical thinking...
- Infants are easily indoctrinated...
(Jesuit saying: 'Give me the boy until age seven, and I will show you the man...')
- Early conformation is a survive tool...

Prevailing/general social attitudes/ignorance in regards to high functioning autism (yes I have to distinguish here, unfortunately):
- We are wrong...and not simply different...
- Autistic individuals need to conform to the social norms of the majority...

While these attitude have greatly improved since I was an infant, there is still a great deal of ignorance in the general community...

Now, the blow back for we on the autistic spectrum is that some, if not many of us, feel pressured into adopting social protocols which are in variance to our inherent psychological/neurotypical mechanism...
In other words, being a square peg trying to fit in a round hole...

Autistic individuals are simply neurologically hard-wired differently...
This is a physical condition and not something akin to biological software which can be altered...

Psychological conditioning/training can create a semblance of "normality" via an "intellectual bridge", but it is analogous to the old Mac to PC computer operation system conversion software which allowed different software languages to be used on inherently incompatible platforms...
It worked, but it worked less efficiently with greater demands on the CPU...
And this in turn slowed down the entire process in addition to the associated, in human terms, fatigue which most of us are acutely aware of from personal experience...

Now, finally getting to the nitty gritty of my point:
Neurotypicals incorporate/rely-on the "reptilian brain and the limbic brain to a greater degree than autistic individuals who have no choice other than to utilise the neocortex (the more intellectual aspect of our physiological makeup) to a greater degree...

So there is no misunderstanding, I am not saying autistic individual don't also use the different aspects of the configuration of the brain...
It is a matter of degree...

In conclusion:
Many autistic individuals have been seduced away from their intrinsic psychological orientation due to social pressures and the inherent needs of the human organism to satisfy their inherent evolutionary inspired urge to interact...
The elements of reproduction, existentialism, self-centredness, survival-instincts, etc are obviously important to the continuation of the species, but much of this heavily involves the less evolved aspect of the human brain...
This is beneficial for those who are neurotypical (and it is self evident that it works in an evolutionary sense, since they are the dominate form of life on this wrong planet)...
However, those on the autistic spectrum have no choice other than to march to a different drum beat to attain self-actualision, surely...

<bow>
<exit stage right>

I have taken this post from the same thread as above...

Point taken...
I originally got the idea that aspies tend to be more interested in the truth and gaining knowledge from Tony Attwood:

'The person usually has a strong desire to seek knowledge, truth and perfection with a different set of priorities than would be expected with other people. There is also a different perception of situations and sensory experiences. The overriding priority may be to solve a problem rather than satisfy the social or emotional needs of others.'
http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/about-asp ... spergers...

These are not hard and fast rules...
I tend to talk in terms of tendencies...
I.E. Aspies tend to be more interested in seeking the truth rather than defending an untenable belief...
And I am convinced that face saving is more apparent in NTs due to their greater emotional and social status requirements...

And, yes I agree in what was said in the other tread.
Younger aspies tend to have more difficulty in incorporating new ideas until they gain a greater degree of enlightenment and self confidence...

I wasn't like that when I was younger, however...
I kept on reviewing my beliefs excessively...
Me must be a super aspie...

VERY interested in this topic.

Okay so I have this book somewhere in my basement: https://openlibrary.org/books/OL5875293 ... mal_groups

I have mentioned this book before. I think it's really important in understanding neurotypicals. It's out of print.

It is about how people who are physically located close together tend to group up, form the same interests, and become friends. So, if there was no Internet, I would likely be better friends with the female neighbors on my block and we would likely do activities together, vote the same way, dress similar, go to the same stores, and so on and so forth.

This is neurotypical behavior. Also pack behavior.

I think that something in that the rise of the Internet and maybe also Identity Politics has made society more neurotypical. Given autistics ways to group up abstractly (online) and move in packs.

I wonder if this makes autistics feel uncomfortable, or spend more "offline" time doing autistic coping activities to make up for the time they are spending not behaving like autistic people. Does anyone here feel stressed out after doing things online and find yourself stimming or needing time alone?

Hi SOA,
I had a look at your profile and I'm impressed: 'Sociology of autism, critical autism studies, social constructionism, autism advocacy'...
For some reason I feel a primordial urge to adopt your points of view...

Tribal/pack behaviour, mob mentality, group think...
Very, very neurotypical behaviour in younger NTs in particular...
Less so in the autistic community, but it does happen...

I am quite intrigued by how so many aspies seem to deviate away from the autistic ideal...
Assuming you agree with my premise, could you speculate as to why this might be the case?
And are you saying the internet might have a deviating influence on inherent autistic behaviour?

No, no, don't be impressed. I haven't done anything in months. I've had a combination of health issues and increased family responsibilities. I just come back to WP some days when I'm feeling better and don't have much to do. Because this is still my primary interest.



Uh...well there's a long explanation that you probably don't want to hear and would require a diagram.

I'm trying to find a short way of explaining this. I think society has become ubersocial, rapidly changing, susceptible to groupthink. Because it's way too far on the far end of neurotypical, by its nature it forces autistic people to act more neurotypical.

Kind of like if you are comfortable in long sleeves and long pants but you go to a nudist colony, you might find yourself wearing short sleeves and shorts. You wouldn't go naked, but you also would feel too uncomfortable to go with what YOU are comfortable with ordinarily, so you compromise, maybe without thinking about it.

Okay and the Internet gives people a false sense of contributing to or being present in society. We are all here in our homes or wherever, typing into machines. Our dogs, cats, and small children see us doing this and think we're idiots. Maybe we are. Maybe we should all just go outside and play. Or talk to a living creature in front of us instead.

Autistic people can "play at" being neurotypical while not having to be in the actual presence of other people or be in an unfamiliar place and without actual people seeing or being around them. All of us can wave our hands, pick our noses, eat weird things, be drunk, sit upside down, whatever we want and no one else knows. That's kind of social cheating.

My personal opinion is that if the Internet somehow did not exist, autistic people would return to acting more autistic and neurotypical people would also act less uberneurotypical- less packish, less bullying and less groupthink. I think there would be way more emphasis on mannerisms and how people look again, however. Now you can easily get away with looking weird or moving oddly, which used to be a big deal. If there were more hard and fast social rules, like the 1950s, I think it would be easier for MOST autistic people to memorize these and blend in. But the ones who could not blend in would have a harder rejection.

Well that didn't end up being all that short, but at least there was no diagram.

The following is a pet hate of mine.
You may not agree with my premise of endemic antisocial online behaviour...

Are you suggesting autistic individuals are embracing bad/combative/argumentative attitudes to emulate neurotypical poor online behaviour (of particularly the young NTs)?
If so, it seems ironic that the group think of bad behaviour would contradict the purpose of group think in general...
An intriguing act of psychological gymnastics if it is the case...<chuckle>

"Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

Yes.

Have you noticed that a lot of people (I do this too sometimes) will read the headlines of articles online and not the content? Then form an opinion based on the title alone?

Online content by its nature is lazy. You can randomly read anything online and try to trace back it's source fact and it's always hit or miss that the online item has much to do with the original concrete fact. It doesn't have to be a hot issue like politics or religion. You can read about a new scientific breakthrough or a bit of history, but trace it back to find that it's based on something very questionable. I sometimes spend a day doing this. It really does take quite a while, even if you're looking up just one single piece of information.

Most of us don't have the time to chase down where online content comes from.

But if you're not even reading the content, but just reading a headline, you're "social loafing." Perhaps even "fact loafing" or I would say "reality loafing." Letting other people tell you what to think about an issue that you're not even trying to understand.

I think ordinarily, people have one or two people who they could are nearly identical to them in values, judgement, and personality. Who could make decisions for you just how you would make them.

...I'm thinking that an increase in groupthink is due to an increase in the assumption that people are on your "team"- people who share your values, judgement, general personality.

A person (NT or autistic) goes to their regular Internet or TV places, clicks around, gets a few tidbits, and uses those tidbits to tell them what they think. We all do this to some degree. But I think we're all doing it more, which is impairing everyone's ability to judge what is going on.

When I say "what is going on" I mean what is reality, what opinions are coming from ourselves instead of others, and what emotions are coming from us and have not been manipulated by something abstract, like abstract TV or Internet communication. Which are not concrete or real communication.

(A good test to figure out if something is real or not is to imagine describing it to a pet dog, cat, or bird.)