Why do you think a relationship will make you happy?

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That's better than nothing. I think you would wish you had met them sooner, but still be glad to have them in your life.

I really don't think I'll find anyone. Not even at 50. 15 years until I'm 50 and I haven't met anyone in the past 15 years who has wanted me. I sincerely doubt I'm going to somehow become more appealing as I get older.

Yeah I'll wish I'd met them sooner and that regret will sour the whole experience for me.

Even if I met a girl tomorrow I'd still be jelous of all the happy 20 year old couples. I'd blame myself for taking longer than them to figure it out.

I don't think a relationship will make me happy. I don't think a relationship will make my depression vanish. I think my depression is a feedback loop. Failure begats failure, hence depression. I would still be unhappy with myself. Even though a relationship wouldn't make me happy it would still be an improvement.

I actually might get more appealing as I get older. As I get older my wealth increases. I get better jobs, live in nicer places, etc.

The unfortunate thing for women is that women get judged on their looks and looks fade over time. Men get judged on their wealth and wealth increases over time.

I have more money now than I did when I was 20 and I'll probably be more financially secure when I'm 50 than I am now.

ALOT of people in my family, my family's friends and my friends family are a bit like this.

The average Australian is expected to live to at least 75 for men and 80 for women, but a lot of people in my family smoke, dridrink like theyre 16 every weekend even when they're 30+, are overweight/obese, rarely/never exercise, poor diets, poor sleep, not visiting doctor enough, using drugs use cell phones just ad much as young people (technology is even more bad for your eyes the older you get) etc.

I put the life expectancy of most of my family at 55-65.

All of those things, including loneliness, really do take years off your life and combined they can take a good 5-20+ years off.

Is it normal for to feel envious of people in a relationship?

Yes it's normal.

Is it healthy? Not if you let it consume you.

I read something about thinking positively and it recommended that one views the person you are envious of as a role model rather than a rival. This was probably not meant in a dating context, but I think it can apply.

Look at what others are doing and see if you can gain any positive tips from that rather than turning it into, "that person has x and y bad traits. Why are they loved and not me? They don't deserve it."

I'm not sure what others are doing.

"How did you two meet?" is a question that's usually answered vaguely. It might include the actual first meeting e.g. "we met by chance at a party" but it will never include the details of how they went from from meeting to dating. Who made the first move and why. It's hard for me to emulate their behavior when I don't know they details.

Another factor is that a lot of them began their current relationship in their early 20s. What they did at the time may not apply to me. Being a single older gent is a situation they've never been in if they've had the same partner since their early 20s.

The usual puzzle in my life is "How do I do this?" This applies to work and dating and many other things in life. It's easy if you know how. I know that other people have done things I want to do but I don't know the details of how they did it. This leaves me with the same unanswered question. "How do I do this?"

Most of the people I know in relationships weren't actively seeking them. Typically they started as friends and things just sort of escalated. I know one guy who liked to have one-night-stands with women; somehow one of those women became something more to him. People around here tend to not actively seek out partners.

Yeah I know what you mean. My married female friends got married in their early 20s and have no idea what my life is like. They say "it just happened" which is not useful. Or "you'll find someone when you're not looking" and as Sabreclaw points out that's what they had happen to them.

They can't get their heads round the fact that they must have done something that I am unable to work out. It doesn't just happen for me. My male acquaintances just stay acquaintances. I try and be friendly, but no body wants me.

That's a lie they tell you, just because they didn't put some ad or whatever then that doesn't mean they weren't actively seeking. They were seeking, but actively seeking sounds 'desperate', that's why people don't like to admit it in front of other in life.

I've tried not actively seeking a relationship. It doesn't work. Even when I spend years at a time not actively seeking a relationship, it doesn't "just happen". When I'm not actively seeking a relationship, nothing happens. Nothing at all.

The only way I get close to a relationship nowadays is by actively seeking one. That's the only way I can do it now.

It was different in the past. When I was 20 I wasn't actively seeking a relationship and without seeking I met this girl at the TAFE college. We started talking, we started hanging out together, we had some chemistry followed by nervous laughter. It was all very innocent. And I wasn't really trying.

Anyway, this guy who knew I liked her kept pushing me to make a move. Eventually he did it in front of her, which she interpreted as him hitting on her. She wasn't into him. She said she didn't want a boyfriend. I'll never know if she really meant it or if she was just trying to dissuade him.

I dropped out of TAFE. I was there for one semester. She stayed on. Maybe things wouldn't have worked out between us but there were other girls there. There were a lot of other girls aged between 18 and their early 20s who didn't already have a boyfriend, didn't already have kids and had common interests with me because if I met them in class that meant they chose the same subjects as me. Being a 20 year old I was within their age range. Now I know girls aged between 28 and their early 30s, most of whom already have a boyfriend or husband, some of whom are single mothers and the college aged girls think I'm too old for them.

I guess college is the way to do it. Lots of co-ed singles all gathered in one place. Too late for that now. Even if I re-enrolled they can see that I'm not in their age group. When I enrolled for night classes it was mostly full of antisocial men aged 30 - 50. The younger crowd took day classes.I couldn't attend those because I had work.

The trouble is at my age most of the girls are already taken. Many of the single ones have kids from previous relationships. And the 20 year olds think I'm too old for them.

Not wanting to sound desperate? I can understand that. At work people ask me why I'm down. The reason is because I'm single. I say some other reason because if people at work see me complaining about being single they might think I sound desperate.

All the guys I see and know who have relationships have good jobs and I've cars.
Something I'll never have given I can't handle working over 25 hours a week.

What Sabre said sums it up perfectly. Relationships might not make you happy, but going your entire life without having a girl interested in you despite being average or above average looking makes you wonder what unknown flaw you have. "Am I an inherently inferior and unlikable person or have I just not found the right woman yet?" Is what you start to ask yourself.

I was just thinking that about myself as I was driving home today (with vice versa genders).

I've had all of those and I still can't make it last, I've still been single for more than a year. The hell is wrong with me when girls don't like me even when I have a good job?

Everyone is different. I'm chronically underemployed but my wife has stood by me all the way. Looks, cars, money are not EVERYTHING.

That said, looks never hurt, and money/cars/real estate are tied to your independence. If you have money and things money can buy, you can afford to be generous in your love life. If you have a car, you can cover a wider radius to meet girls, plus you have more options on where to take a date to entertain her.

Looks/appearances simply communicate who you are to MOOS. Supposedly it's a reflection of your character. If you look goofy and awkward, people tend to assume you're a creep and your brain is fried. You may need help ironing out and tweaking posture, grooming, speech, and mannerisms, and that's ok. Heck, I still wish someone would help me. But you just have to decide if it's that important. I imagine most of us, myself included, just don't care enough to make the effort. The best someone like me can hope for is a girl who is open minded and understanding. I was fortunate, I think, to have met more than one girl who fit that description.