Too many dealbreakers

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AngelRho
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13 Jul 2017, 9:49 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

Chichikov wrote:

C2V wrote:

Take a transwoman for example (since the procedures for women are better than those for men) who is completely post op. She has had all her work done, and is anatomically not different from other women. Why should her being trans be a problem then? Because of her history?

No, because it's still a man. A man with implants and his penis turned inside out granted, but that's not enough for the majority of men. Especially when you consider the machismo aspect of the male ego. I appreciate that comment might "offend" some people but I'm afraid that's the reality of how most men think.

Agreed. We can't hate on people here, but facts are facts. Appearances and anatomy to a degree can be altered to fit how you feel inside, but you can't change how you were born. Not a good PC or WP answer, but it is what it is. You can't dictate to anyone, male or female, what their preferences ought to be. If you want it to be "fair," you have to go back to the days of arranged marriages and let your families or the state duke it out on your behalf.

On a side note: Completely by accident, but our parents inadvertently picked us out for each other. My wife's mother latched on to me when I rescued my then-gf from her abusive bf. My mom practically adopted my gf after they met and treated her like a favorite daughter--I NEVER saw my mom treat anything I dragged home like her. So between our respective families colluding to keep us together, I don't think we ever really had a chance with anyone else.

Anyway, I mean, to make the playing field "fair," there's gonna have to be some authoritative involvement. I don't expect many folks to really go for it, though, but arranged marriages and relationships do happen in some places.

I used to get in these intellectual conversations with a trans woman who was a particularly hateful and heinous person. Once I put all the pieces together, I figured out he was living as a post-op lesbian woman and was beleaguered by his inability to attract lesbian women. That led me to conclude his motivation was primarily to get a LTR with a woman. Since he couldn't cut it as a man, he thought he could do better as a lesbian radical feminist. Had the surgery and everything, too.

And to me it just shows nobody can really have it all their way. You can't force genuine acceptance any more than race laws can end racism (doesn't make it right, just sayin) or Supreme Court decisions can force acceptance of gay marriage. 2+2 will =4 in the minds of most no matter what you force them to say or try to make them believe.

And thus you'll never resolve the problem of finding a partner if it's really the case that most men won't go for trans women. But, hey, if Rick and Maya can get together on the Bold and the Beautiful, why not, right?

You can't transition without extensive psychotherapy to determine that you are truly transgender and you need your body to match your gender identity to be happy. But obviously you know better than this person's psychotherapist that she was really a failed man and not a "proper" transgender woman, which is why you insist on misgendering her. All you prove with this comment is that you are very ignorant of what transgender actually means.

It seems from the LGBTQ section of WrongPlanet that there are a decent amount of transgender and non-binary autistic people here. I'm disappointed that so much transphobia is present, you would think such a place would be more accepting of difference than elsewhere. I guess autistic people are just as prone to hypocrisy as everyone else.

The person in question was unable to get an operation stateside and somehow managed to go overseas to have it done...and the operation was botched, anyway. This is a person who displays a pattern of poor judgment. I can't go into a whole lot of detail for lack of time, but this was someone who was clearly mentally unstable and delusional. I didn't use the term "failed man," so I don't know what that's all about. I believe this is a case of a neurotic, narcissistic attention hog.

If you want to go there with the hypocrisy angle, explain to me why it is this guy can't seem to attract a radical feminist lesbian woman. The way you make it sound, he's entitled to such a partner. Dang, not even the cisgendered hetero world works like that.

Hypocrisy? Nah, I'm just being honest. You cannot dictate to people what their preferences in a mate must be any more than you'd want me to dictate to you what trans or LGB should be or do.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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13 Jul 2017, 10:27 pm

Right, and because you knew this one person--what? What is the point of bringing up this person other than to express transphobia and to imply that trans people aren't worth being around and no wonder no one wants to date them? What point are you trying to make here, what are you really trying to say? Because it sounds like you're using an anecdote to promote dangerous stereotypes about transgender people being mentally unstable and desperate for attention.

AngelRho
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13 Jul 2017, 10:28 pm

Oh, and FTR as you might be relieved to know, this is my final comment on the LGBT thing. I've found the longer I stay in those discussions, the sooner the mods show up, and I just don't need that on me right now.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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14 Jul 2017, 6:38 pm

AngelRho wrote:

That's probably for the best, if you can't directly address your ignorance on the subject better to avoid it and avoid embarrassing yourself or contravening the forum rules.

Chichikov
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14 Jul 2017, 6:40 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

I'm disappointed that so much transphobia is present, you would think such a place would be more accepting of difference than elsewhere. I guess autistic people are just as prone to hypocrisy as everyone else.

Throwing around pejorative terms like transphobic and hypocrite doesn't do your case any good, those are the words of someone trying to shut the dialogue down, not explore it. Those are the words of someone trying to bully others who don't agree with them into "shutting up".

Seeing as I was accused of being "transphobic" for my own remarks I feel I should clarify a few things. Someone can have an negative opinion about something without being "phobic". In my post I was simply explaining why most men would not date a trans woman. Now that's just a fact, a fact about how men think and you not liking the fact or not wanting the fact to be true doesn't mean that everyone is transphobic. I wouldn't have sex with another man because I am heterosexual, men are not my preference. Does that make me homophobic? No, it simply makes me a person with a preference.

I don't want this thread to suddenly turn into a thread about trans people so I'll leave it there, but I'll leave you with something to think about as well. If trans people are not suffering some kind of mental illness why are the suicide rates of trans people so disproportionately high? This is where your internal monologue tells you that it's because they're driven to it by "transphopic" people, and when it does ask it why the suicide rates of other discriminated groups such as blacks are not high. To finish off now think about what other group of people have high suicide rates....those with mental illnesses. All facts I'm afraid and none of your pejorative abuse will change those facts, and if you'd rather not think about them just personally abuse me or report me for being transphobic because that's going to solve everything.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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14 Jul 2017, 6:49 pm

Chichikov wrote:

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

Not wanting to sleep with men does not make you homophobic--but if you were to claim that all gay men are mentally ill, that would make you homophobic. Not wanting to sleep with transgender people does not make you transphobic--but claiming that all transgender people are mentally ill does. Transgender people are more likely to be depressed and suicidal for similar reasons to why many autistic people are depressed and suicidal. Bullying and exclusion and abuse will do that to people.

Chichikov
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14 Jul 2017, 6:57 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

but if you were to claim that all gay men are mentally ill, that would make you homophobic.

Would it? I would consider that having an opinion.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

Not wanting to sleep with transgender people does not make you transphobic--but claiming that all transgender people are mentally ill does.

Would it? Did you know that there are drugs that trans people respond to that remove their feelings of being transgender? Maybe people who say trans people are mentally ill aren't transphobic; maybe they're just right and you're just wrong? You don't have to say that's the case but you have to at least admit it's a possibility, no?

Being "phobic" means to have an irrational dislike or be prejudiced against. I have no dislike for trans people nor am I prejudiced against them, but I do think they have a mental illness.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

Transgender people are more likely to be depressed and suicidal for similar reasons to why many autistic people are depressed and suicidal. Bullying and exclusion and abuse will do that to people.

It's interesting that even though I covered this argument in my post because I knew it would be your response, you completely ignored it and said this anyway. Curious.

boofle
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14 Jul 2017, 7:36 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

That's probably for the best, if you can't directly address your ignorance on the subject better to avoid it and avoid embarrassing yourself or contravening the forum rules.

I must admit I was going to initially post and question HOW you managed to see "hate" where there was none (angelrho's post). Your subsequent explanations on how you were reading his post appeared to inflame and answer to an agenda YOU had set.

I do not doubt posts have been reported, this thread has been reported, because YOU have been guilty of making "leading" posts that ostensibly champion Trans-Rights but which in actual fact is just blatant bullying.
NOT the best way to make a case!

Plus, the thread has gone hideously off topic which I don't doubt ALSO serves your agenda!

@angelrho. I did not find your post offensive and understood what you were driving at.
I think you made some good points

In an effort to stop further derailment and getting back to topic...Dating ultimately comes down to Prefs. And we are ALL entitled to make those.

With that said, I hope OP finds luck, and soon.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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14 Jul 2017, 8:18 pm

boofle wrote:

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

That's probably for the best, if you can't directly address your ignorance on the subject better to avoid it and avoid embarrassing yourself or contravening the forum rules.

In an effort to stop further derailment and getting back to topic...Dating ultimately comes down to Prefs. And we are ALL entitled to make those.

With that said, I hope OP finds luck, and soon.

Asking not to call all transgender people mentally ill is bullying now? That's a fascinating take on the issue.

boofle
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14 Jul 2017, 8:28 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

Asking not to call all transgender people mentally ill is bullying now? That's a fascinating take on the issue.

You are obviously easily enthralled.

I *could* give the retort that it's not nearly as fascinating as your earlier Misinterpretation of AngelRho's post that kick-started all this, but I won't, because I'm not particularly gullible.

Instead, I'd politely ask that you stick to topic. Thank you.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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14 Jul 2017, 8:42 pm

boofle wrote:

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

Asking not to call all transgender people mentally ill is bullying now? That's a fascinating take on the issue.

I really don't understand what I did to prompt such hostility. I just don't think it's right to make incorrect statements like transgender people are mentally ill. Would it be OK if someone who was NT came into this forum and started telling us all we are mentally ill because we are autistic? Because that would be equally as incorrect, and ignorant, and would promote a harmful stereotype and stigma about autistic people, would it not?

Chichikov
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14 Jul 2017, 8:50 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

Asking not to call all transgender people mentally ill is bullying now?

No, but calling people transphobic, ignorant and other pejorative terms just because they disagree with you is.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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14 Jul 2017, 8:56 pm

Chichikov wrote:

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

Asking not to call all transgender people mentally ill is bullying now?

No, but calling people transphobic, ignorant and other pejorative terms just because they disagree with you is.

I said the things you were saying were ignorant and transphobic, because they are. That is not the same as calling you personally a transphobe and an ignorant person. When you say ignorant transphobic things, people might call you on that and point out how those things you're saying are incorrect and misinformed. That's not what bullying is.

Chichikov
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14 Jul 2017, 8:57 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

I just don't think it's right to make incorrect statements like transgender people are mentally ill. Would it be OK if someone who was NT came into this forum and started telling us all we are mentally ill because we are autistic?

You are presenting your opinions as fact and people with different opinions as wrong, transphobic etc. It's your opinion that trans people are not mentally ill, others have their own opinion.

And yes it would be ok if an NT person said that. Why wouldn't it? They'd be right. We have some mental illness. You could argue the semantics but the sentiment is accurate. The difference is that many people are not offended by facts they don't like. Not everyone is perpetually offended and enraged and "triggered" by everything. Many of us can hold sensible rationale debates about a topic.

Chichikov
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14 Jul 2017, 8:58 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

Chichikov wrote:

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

Asking not to call all transgender people mentally ill is bullying now?

No, but calling people transphobic, ignorant and other pejorative terms just because they disagree with you is.

So prove what I'm saying is wrong.

boofle
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14 Jul 2017, 9:03 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

boofle wrote:

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

Asking not to call all transgender people mentally ill is bullying now? That's a fascinating take on the issue.

calling you on your behaviour in the tone YOU initially used with angelrho isn't nice, is it? HE was a gentleman and withdrew but, you didn't even have the courtesy to let him go ...without another barb, belaboring a point that did not even exist.

here is his post...

"I used to get in these intellectual conversations with a trans woman who was a particularly hateful and heinous person. Once I put all the pieces together, I figured out he was living as a post-op lesbian woman and was beleaguered by his inability to attract lesbian women. That led me to conclude his motivation was primarily to get a LTR with a woman. Since he couldn't cut it as a man, he thought he could do better as a lesbian radical feminist. Had the surgery and everything, too.

And to me it just shows nobody can really have it all their way. You can't force genuine acceptance any more than race laws can end racism (doesn't make it right, just sayin) or Supreme Court decisions can force acceptance of gay marriage. 2+2 will =4 in the minds of most no matter what you force them to say or try to make them believe."

you cherry picked the first paragraph and deliberately ignored the next para where he was making a salient point. NONE of which suggests "transphobia", i might add.

YOU are the one creating the argument and then YOU are the one crying foul because you are being called on it?

seriously?

anyways, i am now done with this...you have pushed enough, gotten enough of the reaction you clearly wanted to get...but, enough is now enough.

pls, stick to topic.

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