Certain things are fraud but not regarded as such

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AgusCahyo
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16 Jul 2017, 9:11 pm

I've been thinking about how many things are pretty much a lie.

For example, say I buy a widget for $1 and sell it at $2.

Then I told the buyer, oh I can't sell below $2. My margin is already too thin.

Am I committing fraud?

I lied.

But people think it's sort of part of the game.

I sort of understand that "wrong" means something government have to step in to prohibit. I would say it's reasonable to think that such thing should be legal. After all, the customer do get the agreed widget for $2.

It doesn't hurt customers. Does it? Well, if the customer believe that the margin is thin, the customers probably won't seek other widget sellers and hence cannot get it at even cheaper price. Obviously it's not toward customers' interests to believe such claims.

The fact that it's legal doesn't mean it's believable.

How do we resolve this issues? What other sort of lies are simply not considered lies by society?



the_phoenix
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16 Jul 2017, 10:03 pm

AgusCahyo wrote:
For example, say I buy a widget for $1 and sell it at $2.


1) How much time did it take you to research the type of widget you wanted to buy and resell?
2) How much money did you invest to advertise the widget that you bought for $1 and want to sell at $2?
3) How much does it cost you for packaging, shipping, and handling the widget to get it to the customer? Mailing supplies, gas mileage to the post office?
4) How much time does it take for you to pack and ship the customer's widget?
5) What is the postage cost? Depending on how much it weighs, it could be costly to send through the mail.
6) How many years of experience / expertise do you have when it comes to choosing the best widgets to resell? (Assuming that you are in fact choosing to resell the best?)

Heck, $2 is cheap.
Will you be able to make any kind of a profit, break even, or lose money?

Personal Example, since I own an online store and sell fine art photos.

An 8x10 photo costs me $2.99 to get printed out at the camera shop.
Advertising costs me ... a lot ... let's just put it that way. :)
I have to pay for a special padded bubble envelope to protect the print, let's say that envelope cost me $1.
The post office charges me around $3 to mail it first class. Then there's gas, wear and tear on the car, and the time it takes me to travel back and forth to the post office to consider.
On top of that, in order to take the nature photo, I had to travel out to the country ... more gas mileage and time.
I have over ten years experience as a photographer, and spent hundreds of dollars taking a Photoshop course.
I've also invested hundreds of dollars in camera equipment over the years.
It took me hours at the computer post-processing the photo after I took it.
It took me roughly an hour to submit the order to the professional lab, then go and pick it up from the lab.

And since I don't work for free, and deserve to earn money for my expertise as an artist, and for creating a work of art for you to enjoy for many years, yes, I will build in a profit margin for myself according to what the market will bear.

So the photo that cost me $2.99 to have printed at the lab,
is on sale in my online shop for $24.95 ...
plus $3.50 shipping and handling,
which is quite reasonable, as a matter of fact.
It could be argued that I should charge even more
since my award-winning artwork has been exhibited in art galleries and museums for years,
but I'm sticking with a price that works for me.

Simply put,
I have the right to be paid / reimbursed
for the time, money, and effort I invested
while creating a work of art
that somebody decides they want to own.



sos72
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18 Jul 2017, 9:05 pm

You're really overthinking the whole supply/demand thingy...

And that doesn't really take into account the number one thing, in my opinion, regarding value...

The value that you place on something vs the value someone else places on something. It can be as complex as the previous post. Or as simple as "I just want it and am willing to pay X dollars for it..."

I have sold things for a loss simply for the reason that at the time the value of said thing was worth that amount at that time to me. And vice versa...

i am really rambling tonight...


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18 Jul 2017, 9:12 pm

AgusCahyo wrote:
I've been thinking about how many things are pretty much a lie.

For example, say I buy a widget for $1 and sell it at $2.

Then I told the buyer, oh I can't sell below $2. My margin is already too thin.

Am I committing fraud?


I suppose it depends on what is meant by "Can't". Technically, the seller can sell it for less than $2 and technically less than $1. The seller can even technically give it away for free. But the problem is, if the seller sells for $1 they break even. The problem with this is, the seller has put resources in the form of time and energy into buying and selling, and gets nothing for it. The seller takes a loss in terms of energy and resources.

If the seller sells it for less than $1, the seller takes a loss in terms of energy, resources, and money.

Businesses attempt to operate in positive feedback mode to stay salient. When a shop owner tells me "I can't sell it for less than x" or a person tells me they can't offer their services for less than x, I take it to mean it's not economically profitable for them to do so. Not that they can't literally do so.



HistoryGal
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26 Jul 2017, 8:35 pm

24.95 is not a lot of money to pay for your photo service. You are offering an incredible bargain.



the_phoenix
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27 Jul 2017, 4:55 pm

HistoryGal wrote:
24.95 is not a lot of money to pay for your photo service. You are offering an incredible bargain.


Thank you for understanding, HistoryGal! :)



AngryAngryAngry
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12 Aug 2017, 6:04 am

That is a very fair price.
You have got to take into account all the work that you did to source the product, time taken to list it, monitor sales, and process postage.
You have costs. And risk, you may be undercut or even trends could change and be stuck with stock that you have to sell at a loss.

Your mark up is standard.



the_phoenix
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12 Aug 2017, 6:30 am

Thanks, AngryAngryAngry!

You make excellent points.