How do I apply business skills to relationships and dating

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Lately, I've been purging all my friends that are non-music related this year and have been focusing hard on making music, DJing, and finding ways to get a 9 - 5 job in music because of Aspergers. I've been feeling a bit lonely and want a girlfriend just to have her pay attention to me as well as be there for me as I will be there with her.

I've been behaving badly while on dates and have not been demonstrating good behavior that shows I am a great Return on Investment dating-wise. Even in friendships, I have behaved badly (e.g. creeping out friends' female friends, not having a filter, falling asleep while doing group activities, etc.) and have been applying a lot of business concepts to relationships. Like understanding opportunity cost as a means of which friends to cut ties with and which friends to make for music as well as enforcing boundaries when talking opportunity costs. I have also been understanding sunk costs as a means of paying attention to when a friendship is leading to resentment and drifting away.

What other ways can I apply business to understand friendships, relationships, and dating to prevent social errors and bad behaviors? So far ever since I have viewed all my new friends as business, I have been able to better behave myself and not present bad behaviors of the past.

Rapport
Respect
Understanding
Forgiveness
Your value point.

Rapport
Respect
Understanding
Forgiveness
Your value point.[/quote]

What do you mean by your point value? I do know that all relationships (friendships and girlfriends) often require a "minimum cost requirement" where I'm expected to at least chip into something to maintain the relationship. I often had a problem with freeloading from folks and other stuff. I'm also thinking of Return on Investment as a means of listing what traits of mine are already great for the girl that I am trying to date.

What do you mean by your point value? I do know that all relationships (friendships and girlfriends) often require a "minimum cost requirement" where I'm expected to at least chip into something to maintain the relationship. I often had a problem with freeloading from folks and other stuff. I'm also thinking of Return on Investment as a means of listing what traits of mine are already great for the girl that I am trying to date.[/quote]

Your value point is the answer to the question of "Why do people want to associate with you?"

You don't...If all people are to you is a business investment, then they aren't really going to want to have close relationships with you.

You cannot apply a business model to relationships, or even close friendships. It might work for superficial "friendships", but that is all. A relationship is not a business transaction. You could apply the model to dating, but then you will fail as soon as it gets more serious because girls typically don't want to be business transactions.

That which makes someone pleasant to interact with in business also makes them pleasant to interact with as friends. The difference in a pleasant business relationship and a pleasant friendship is the radius of the social boundaries and a slightly different set of ethics.

Okay, so how do I solve this problem of being able to read girls while interacting with them and even trying to make it past the 6-month mark of dating. What I mean by a business investment in a friendship is basically asking "how are we benefiting one another's company" and "what is it that I offer that can keep the relationship going".

Truthfully speaking, I just want all my friends to be people I am willing to do business with. It's so f*****g confusing to have friends outside of music when most of the time, I just want to be solo and produce music as well as do music-related tasks. Is that type of friendship possible?

Hmm. Maybe but I doubt you'll have much luck somehow.

You're basically working on people like a favour system.
No one likes to be used. Even more so when there's nothing in it for them.

I don't know about that there is a lot of superficial pleasantries in business, which actually don't work so well with close friendships/relationships in more casual settings. I wouldn't find it pleasant to interact with someone who treated casual interaction as business interaction it would be pretty off putting.

I'm really having a hard time trying not to climb on a high horse about your post, Mr. Henry, so I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate.

Okay - to be blunt from one "businessman" to another; you lack business acumen and it cannot be disputed that you lack social grace and etiquette. I don't understand how you expect to apply business skills you don't have successfully into another area of life you also lack the skills in. Seminars for handling people -business or otherwise- in the right way are commonly dished out at desk jobs and online. Have you not considered investing time in these first?

Well... ok, there are two sides to business: the consumer end and the provider end.

Successful businesses drive their focus to the consumer. Without the consumer, there is nothing. It's all about the consumer. The question you must answer is "What do I have to offer the consumer?" This might be tricky. Reason is you enjoy certain activities or hobbies. Music is my thing, same as you. The music I make, however, is not marketable to our local population or demographic. What else can I do? I can teach music. I play piano for a church, sub for our minister of music occasionally for middle-of-the-week activities, assist in worship planning, act as a liason between the worship leader and volunteer instrumentalists, prep lyric/chord charts for guitars/bass, etc. And I strengthen relations with the community through non-paid volunteer work. And there's other stuff, too, a lot of work with sometimes more, sometimes less return on my investment. It is what it is, but you can't make a living in music without working your tail off 24/7. I've also expanded my interests more in an athletic direction, which has the side-benefit of connecting with another consumer base, plus the activity is good sensory stimulation, cardio strength building, and I've got PLEEEEEENTY time to listen to electronic music of all kinds (I alternate between Goa and downtempo lounge) for workout motivation and inspiration. You succeed the more you diversify, just enough you have a lot to offer but not so much that your work becomes mediocre. Consider your top restaurants, the really high class ones. Their menus are minimalist compared with, say, the Golden Arches. But that focus on a few superior dishes instead of a lot of inferior ones will always solidify your reputation and keep high-end clientele coming back for more. Fast food, by contrast, is all about mass quantities for a mass market, so best quality might just mean it's cheap food that didn't kill anybody. You have to decide what your audience or consumer base is and just really go for it, using your talents to produce what people want most. You can't sell 5-star dining to an impoverished community, and high-end customers will drive out of town for gourmet steak and seafood, so you wouldn't build a Taco Bell in a classy neighbourhood and expect to do well. To sell, and to succeed, KNOW YOUR CUSTOMERS.

The other side is the business side. I can't say much about that, and you'll see why. This side is the hiring/firing and operations side. Building relationships with employees, 3rd party janitorial staff, vendors, distributers, etc. Basically anyone and everyone you depend on to get your product "out there." If all you see is a big power play between those in charge and the "underlings," then, sure, it looks like one big fun game in which you have all the control. You bark orders and people scurry to carry them out for fear they'll get fired. The most successful businesses emphasize relationships from corporate headquarters to operations to the local branch/store/franchise/whatever. They need you too much to fire you and don't really want you to leave. So they'll spend thousands on you for training. If you are incompetent, they'll work side-by-side with you to raise your competency. They will periodically raise your salary and offer promotions, move you out of the way for the next entry-level team, and put you side-by-side with them to pass on your unique experience and skills. The best corporate cultures operate that way. And if you can't earn a raise or promotion, you get an invitation to a free lunch from your team leader to discuss how happy you are in your current position. I advise you say you're just not feeling it and considering making a move, and ask if you can count on your team leader for a good recommendation. Flip that around--you have to communicate that your employee isn't growing and you'd like to help him find a better opportunity elsewhere. Poor businessmen just go with "you're fired" or a suspension just prior to "the phone call of doom." I've seen this happen with a lot of people and I must say they lost my respect. Hmm...I said more than I meant to! lol

Anyway, what do they have in common? Relationships. Just like romantic relationships. No different. As someone looking for a date, you put yourself in the position of a business, a provider of a service. You have something someone else wants. What is it? See, it always seemed to me that women were mysterious, that there was no way to gauge that. As I've gotten older, I've discovered there's no real difference between men and women. Maybe some cultural nuances, but we are not by nature any different. We have the same human nature that makes us flawed. We are greedy, selfish, sex-crazed perverts. And the only thing stopping us from destroying ourselves and each other is the fact that bringing others down will ultimately kill us. And we KNOW that. Which is why most people tend to look out for each other. We all want others to have our back. Therefore, we'll cover each others' backs for the sake of our own personal protection and benefit. A mutually beneficial relationship is ALWAYS easiest and best.

And thus, in solving the problem of what women want, the answer is simple--what everyone wants: to feel important. This means something different to everyone, hence why women appear so mysterious. How do you find out what customers want? Just ask, for starters. Or just observe their habits. And once you offer what they want, innovate, experiment, and just see if they'll go for something new. With partners and employees, same thing. What do want? Will giving them that motivate them to give you superior work? Or are they simply there for the paycheck? Are there innovative ways to enhance or build team morale?

Are a woman's basic desires adequately met by being IAR with you? If yes, are there ways of improving or innovating what you are to her so that she'll want to continue the relationship? Is the relationship growing or stagnating? And that's just the tip of iceberg, but you can't lose when you start with the basics, keep it simple, and grow from there over time.

Final word: did you notice I said not one word about meeting your own needs? Focus on self is a relationship killer. Always meet her wants and needs, always make her feel special. Don't worry about yourself. One way or another your needs WILL be met. Simply wanting a girl for yourself will never work in the long run. Only want her for HER. It never fails.

What AngelRho wrote about business and relationships above sounds really strange to me. Maybe that IS the way it works for NTs, I have no idea, but it certainly is not the way it works for me, and not for all girls either.

In the work space, I really don't fit any of his models either. I don't work for the paycheck, I don't have any ambition to rise in the hierarchy, and I certainly don't form "alliances" for my own benefit or protection. I simply prefer to work on things I find interesting, without wanting to advance, and get the paycheck so I can live. I really don't switch jobs because of opportunities, but I might based on how interesting things I can work with. But, then, what he describes here are NT preferences too that many NDs don't have.

I very well can understand how dating can be reduced to a business "deal" or a customer relation, but this is part of the reason why I really hate dating. The similarity between selling things and "having things to offer" in dating is also striking, and utterly disgusting. If you want to have that kind of exchange, why don't you just visit a prostitute instead? That will give you the variety that a relationship won't give you, and does it really matter if you spend money on a partner to get your favours or on a prostitute? I don't think it does. What is wrong is not if you are in a relationship or not, but using money, power or resources in exchange for love and sex.

So, no, I don't seek partners as a business deal, I prefer them not to know anything about what I can "offer", I expect them to be independent creatures in the NT cultural environment. I especially despise the notion that a girlfriend is a potential for bragging, both based on her attractivity and her social position. And a girl that want to brag about me as her boyfriend is a definite turn-off and deal breaker.

The issue (for me) is not what I or want or what she wants, but building a strong mutual attachment that will last. Once I have that, I will act completely selflessly towards her, helping her and supporting her the best I can without any hidden motives or agendas. This is how I want a relationship to be, not a tit-for-tat game similar to business deals.

The OP wants to apply business skills to dating. HIS idea, not mine. I'm just attempting a response based on his framework.

The OP also mentioned a return on investment. Thing is, you need to understand what investments are. Investing means you assume not only the benefits of ownership, but also the risks. Investment dividends most consistently come with a long term strategy. It's possible to make huge short term gains through speculation. However, doing so incurs more risk. There are normally more losers than winners in aggressive speculation. Unless you're involved in insider trading, which is more often ILLEGAL, speculation is not a roadmap for success.

That's why diversification is so important to your portfolio. You can literally throw darts at the mutuals page blindfolded and somewhere in there you're guaranteed to pick a winner. Over time, you can observe who the winners and losers are, slowly reduce your high risk capital funds together with the losers, pick more conservatively, and end up with huge returns by retirement.

This works because you can afford high risk when you're young. These investments are your startups. You're looking for the next Google or Microsoft or Apple. Most of these will fail. However, when you find the next Google, you're gonna break even FAST. Once the winners show themselves, you can put more money in them. There's always a risk, like Worldcom. But with a little digging you can uncover debt management and high risk behavior that might predict failure.

I'm writing in parables. You invest in everyone you encounter, every relationship you make. You don't know who the winners and losers are, so you invest in everyone equally without the expectation of return. You know you are going to strike out (rejection), but you accept the risk in the HOPE that you get lucky with a handfull of modest winners (dating girls with strong character, not letting looks or personality be the ONLY criteria. Will she stay with you or cheat? Is she really nice or is she psychotic?). You cut your losses with failed investments (relationship disintegrates, you break up). You invest more conservatively over time in the winners that show consistent steady gains (exclusive relationships, marriage, family).

A smaller, simpler way to look at it is running your own gig at home. Do you have the best tools for the job? I landed an important gig last year, so I bought a new piano. It paid for itself within WEEKS. After that I made enough money to buy a new laptop and a huge sample library and take a college course so I could fully reinstate my teaching license. Guess what happened? Things went south with the band and I got the axe. But NOT before I was able to invest in a little security. So things might be a bit slow right now. That's ok. More time for volunteer work putting my own band together, and maybe even composing more commercial type work. Build up my BMI catalog, perhaps release an album on bandcamp. Or use those technical skills to enhance what I'm doing in the classroom.

See, you can't always know when she’s going to dump you because for guys it more often happens out of the blue. You don’t want to jump on a breakup because it makes you look like an @$$hole. But at the same time you want to begin and end relationships on your own terms. There’s no guaranteed strategy here, you just do the best you can. So you take what you learn from one relationship and use that to build on another. In my case, I don’t do BBW, the reason being I’ve discovered a connection between appearance, behavior, and attitude that I can’t tolerate. Doesn’t mean all BBW are like that. It just means I’ve dated a few and found we don’t work well together. See, people can scream “looks aren’t everything,” but that doesn’t mean dating unattractive people because “everyone deserves s chance” is really a good idea. You’ll always fail in relationships if you don’t learn anything from one to the next. You take what you can get from one relationship and build on that in the next.

And you don’t stop with marriage and family, either. You take those gains and you pass that along to someone else who hasn’t arrived yet. Knowledge and time are better means of exchange than money, IMO. Generosity is the ultimate expression of wealth, and the unemployed are well-endowed with time. Give every chance you get. If you’re out of a relationship, invest heavily in friendships and acquaintances, just like you would a business partner, a college course, new equipment, etc.

Investing in the right mindset or spirit is the key to long term success. You buy new equipment because it works best to take your game to the next level. You invest in corporations because you believe in what they do. You invest in people because you enjoy taking care of them. The goal isn’t immediate dividends. It’s the long term strategy that matters most. New equipment breaks down in the warranty period? Take it back for a refund. Corporation has too much debt? Sell your stock. Employee/boss turns out to be douchebag? Fire the employee or quit the job. Not because you aren’t getting anything out of them. Remember the point is to take care of people and things, not to “get something out of them.” You cut them loose because either they are better off elsewhere/without you (you’re doing them a favor) or because their poor performance is harmful to other beneficial relationships you’re trying to maintain. Does your gf cuss your momma? Cut her loose. Is she a complainer/gossiper? Cut her loose. Does she make fun of you around your friends or her? Cut her loose. Heck, GHOST her of she does any of that. Just freakin vanish on her, and I don’t care if it’s 6 dates or 6 YEARS. Nothing good comes from that. Just like dumping bad stock, firing a boss/employee cuz, like, we’re all ultimately self-employed, anyway, right?, or selling bad equipment on eBay as-is, no reserve, for parts/not working. You take care of you and yours. Anybody set to hurt you and yours gotsta go.

It’s all about taking care of people. The BEST way for a relationship to go out is when you are both able to be adults and admit that you’ve gone as far as you can together. You part as friends and maybe you’re able to keep in touch afterwards. Rather than burn bridges, you simply change the nature of the relationship. “Hey y’know, I feel like maybe I’m going a different direction. No hard feelings, y’all are awesome. But consider this my 2-weeks notice. And, btw, I know this guy who really wants this job. He’s really good. I think you should give him a call.” Incidentally, I haven’t put resumés out in nearly a decade. Every job or gig I’ve gotten since has been word of mouth. In fact, the only reason I fill out job applications anymore is because an employer wants it for the file. It’s strictly a formality. I’m always offered the job first, THEN I apply for it. Relationships are no different. You establish yourself as a world-class guy, you get world-class gf’s. It’s not about what you say about yourself, but what others say about you.

Jesus never came out and said “I am your Messiah,” at least not in so many words. He LIVED as the coming Messiah and His people proclaimed Him as such. If a girl’s friends like you, chances are it will be easy to get a date with her. If her parents like you, marry her. lol Always invest generously in relationships.

Investments are inherent in the neurotypical relationship model, comprised of tit-for-tat and having a gf for the social benefits of having one. So, by "having something to offer", buying her things, and investing time in her, NTs expect she will become exclusive, and indirectly, your possession. None of that is part of ND preferences. In fact, just as you say, it's just an extension to NTs social preferences applied to relationships. So why would somebody ND want to learn or adopt this? Beats me, unless they are NT in the relationship area.

Investments work in a very different way in the natural ND relationship model. First, the aim is not to get a girl as your possession (I'm sure many ND women actually object to that idea too). The investments are basically time, not money, status, or "what can I offer". By investing time in a girl, I expect us to build a strong mutual attachment, which is the ultimate goal of ND courtship. Once the attachment is in place, everything becomes unconditional, and there is no tit-for-tat game or "if you don't do this for me, you won't get this from me". There is also no "when I get tired of you, I'll break up" because you cannot easily break a strong attachment just like that. Which is also why NDs have trouble moving on. Because these bonds are very strong, they seldom lead to breakups, but in the natural state of things, many NDs can form multiple bonds like this, and they don't need to end one relationship before starting another. Thus, the end goal is not exclusivity, but a long-term bond. And, yes, you basically know she will NOT dump you when things have been going on for a while.

That also means that risk management is different. In ND courtship, the outcome is more or less failure or success only, unlike in NT relationships where you can "learn" and improve for the next one, and so the outcome is more like a continuum. Thus, ND risk management will validate if the outcome will be failure or success, and nothing else will really matter. If the probability of a failure is high enough, it is best to end things as early as possible. There is no value of "experience" as a failure is always wasted time.