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C2V
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28 Jul 2017, 11:03 pm

Not sure if this is the right forum for adult education, but anyway -
I've been vaguely looking at university options (again) but I'm not an 18-year-old kid anymore. It just seems like it might all be too late for this sort of thing, too late to be getting into a whole new field of study and career progression after the last one failed so completely. I know people say it's never too late to start fresh, to have a career change at any age is possible and you shouldn't let considerations about not being a school kid anymore deter you - but those things are usually said to people to make them feel better and ease some kind of insecurity. Which isn't really relevant for me - I need to know if this is actually going to be worth it after the age of about 20.
Some of the inquiries I made about prerequisites for mature-aged students (especially as the topic I was interested in at the time was a high bracket) would have entailed about $40,000 worth of pre-admission courses to get the high "rating," and that's before you even got to uni and spent another $60,000 in student loans. Plus the prerequisite courses would have added up to about three years full time, so no opportunity to work, then there was three years or so at uni full time, no work. And I'm too cautious now of making another expensive mistake.
By the time I got out of all that I wouldn't exactly be at the age where people are starting their careers.
So I dismissed it as not going to work.
But now I'm rethinking. Minimum wage jobs just aren't working out for everything I have to accommodate being autistic. I reasoned perhaps a specialty job would have more accommodations possible, especially as the path I'm considering would be in the sciences, and mostly solitary.
But I can't seem to get an idea about whether or not getting involved with study and a whole new direction in an academic field is worthwhile or appropriate as an adult. At the moment I'm studying in basic adult education, and the course is almost pointless there is so much "filler" in it. Would higher education be the same?
Opinions?


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Chronos
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28 Jul 2017, 11:37 pm

C2V wrote:
Not sure if this is the right forum for adult education, but anyway -
I've been vaguely looking at university options (again) but I'm not an 18-year-old kid anymore. It just seems like it might all be too late for this sort of thing, too late to be getting into a whole new field of study and career progression after the last one failed so completely. I know people say it's never too late to start fresh, to have a career change at any age is possible and you shouldn't let considerations about not being a school kid anymore deter you - but those things are usually said to people to make them feel better and ease some kind of insecurity. Which isn't really relevant for me - I need to know if this is actually going to be worth it after the age of about 20.
Some of the inquiries I made about prerequisites for mature-aged students (especially as the topic I was interested in at the time was a high bracket) would have entailed about $40,000 worth of pre-admission courses to get the high "rating," and that's before you even got to uni and spent another $60,000 in student loans. Plus the prerequisite courses would have added up to about three years full time, so no opportunity to work, then there was three years or so at uni full time, no work. And I'm too cautious now of making another expensive mistake.
By the time I got out of all that I wouldn't exactly be at the age where people are starting their careers.
So I dismissed it as not going to work.
But now I'm rethinking. Minimum wage jobs just aren't working out for everything I have to accommodate being autistic. I reasoned perhaps a specialty job would have more accommodations possible, especially as the path I'm considering would be in the sciences, and mostly solitary.
But I can't seem to get an idea about whether or not getting involved with study and a whole new direction in an academic field is worthwhile or appropriate as an adult. At the moment I'm studying in basic adult education, and the course is almost pointless there is so much "filler" in it. Would higher education be the same?
Opinions?


I don't understand what these pre requirement courses you are speaking about are, and why they are so expensive. That aside, if you were in your mid 20s or early 30s I don't think you would be unusual in your pursuit of higher education.

I have a friend who was 31 when I met him. He was working in a low wage job in the food service industry. He talked about going back to school but he never did and now he's almost 50 and still working a low wage job in the food service industry. Had he gone to school to be a radiological technician (which is a 4-6 year degree), he could be making $90,000 per year right now.



the_phoenix
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29 Jul 2017, 12:24 pm

What I did after college
when I was in between contract jobs,
is that I went to a computer training course
that would last a day or two
so I could earn a certificate and put a new skill on my resume.
It cost hundreds of dollars,
not thousands.

Age didn't matter.

What kind of courses are you interested in?



shortfatbalduglyman
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29 Jul 2017, 8:44 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
What I did after college
when I was in between contract jobs,
is that I went to a computer training course
that would last a day or two
so I could earn a certificate and put a new skill on my resume.
It cost hundreds of dollars,
not thousands.

Age didn't matter.

What kind of courses are you interested in?

________________________________________________________________

every situation is different. there are many variables. some variables you might not even be aware of.

in some ways, age matters. sometimes, younger students have an easier time performing at school than older students. younger students sometimes have more energy to stay up late studying. however, there are many young students and many old students. not all young students are the same. not all old students are the same. old students are more likely to have a spouse and family and career. and more responsibilities, financial and otherwise.

in some ways, age does not matter. allegedly, instructors hold students to the same standards regardless of age. ideally, students treat other students the same regardless of age.

cost benefit analysis :lol:



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30 Jul 2017, 9:52 am

Posting in this thread by OP's request.

My thoughts are that you need to do strategic planning about this. You said in the other thread that your interest is limnology, which google tells me is the study of fresh water areas. Did you finish an undergraduate degree in criminal justice?

Let's assume you did. You may be able to start a graduate degree in environmental science off of your criminal justice degree. I know a medical doctor who went to medical school with an undergraduate major in French, and when I was in grad school for sociology, people had all kinds of different undergraduate majors. So starting there would save you money.

You could look around to see if there were any grants available. If you're any kind of minority, there's usually something. But some of them will give you money just for writing a nice essay or doing charity work. So there's that.

Then, you can try to get your graduate work funded. There are two ways of doing this. 1) work as a graduate assistant teacher. When I was going to school, all the other students were doing this. I didn't because of my health. So I was like the only person in my cohort with loans. 2) get a company to fund you. I think this is done by getting an internship with a company you'd like to work for afterward, but I'm not sure. Talk to people at the university and they'll tell you how to get funding this way.

Okay and then the last thing is that you just have to be prepared socially to go back. The atmosphere is hard for an older student. You cannot speak freely- just accept that right now. Not just with your vocabulary. You cannot give your opinions on politics, religion, people's race or orientation, anything like that you just keep your mouth shut. Universities these days should be considered socially dangerous. I'm not kidding about that. I watched some students shut other students down with whatever they said because they perceived some kind of racism or privilege (when there clearly was none). It's a weapon these days to avoid hearing a different point of view. That's how it is now and you can't change it, so don't try. That's all I can tell you about that.



C2V
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30 Jul 2017, 11:15 am

^ I didn't end up graduating fully. It was a bit of a weird situation as it was a fast-track program, so people like me "graduated" without actually finishing the uni portion of the degree - that was to be completed on the job via internship.
I coped with the studying portion of things, but when I got out there on internship in the real job it all fell apart. The job was proven to be utterly pointless but with the arrogant gravitas of something that was kidding itself that it actually mattered, there was a very strong "group" conformist culture, and I couldn't stand my colleagues and of course, did not fit in socially. Which was absolutely essential in that job.
So no joy in applying as a graduate, because I never got the paper. All my inquiries with unis have told me that I'd have to start from scratch, hence the 40K prerequisite courses to qualify for another option I was considering.
I vaguely recall taking an aptitude test that got me straight into uni bypassing all the courses and subsequent wank I'm being directed to this time, so may look into straight out testing. Which ironically was how I got through highschool - I couldn't handle actually going, so I just turned up for the tests.
I'm not really familiar with academia in this area, so no idea what students can do to support themselves - I did know someone who was working on his masters in psychology, and worked as an undergraduate tutorial teacher. So I assume there's things like that, but I'm less than confident I would be any use in such a functional position.
It's interesting your comments on the fellow you knew who was studying Pedology / edaphology, and just ended up selling out to the corporates. The little I have looked into what an environmental science degree would eventuate into seems suspiciously close to this - you end up giving advice to local councils and developers, urban planners and so on about how much they can get away with destroying the natural environment before it's illegal, rather than active conservation. I was interested in the conservation and research areas, not the mundane building development and environmental health areas. Though I need money for certain things like everyone else, I am extremely non-materialistic. Dangling the proverbial carrot of a big paycheck at the expense of actually studying / working in an interesting or fulfilling area would not interest me.
I'm just so wary of utter BS. The course I'm in right now is horribly basic (they did claim I had to start from scratch after all) and even that is up to the eyes in BS. Fluff. Filler. Boring crap. Pointless shite invented by educational institutions to drag it out 3/4 longer than it should be, with very little to do with the core topic. So yeah I'm more wary of unis, adding all this fluff just to end up somewhere boring many thousands of dollars later. I really should talk to a uni careers advice centre, I think, but then again, they have been worse than useless in the past.
As for the social aspect - I will tend to avoid this altogether. I'm not about to go bandying my opinions around. I don't actually plan on much speech at all. What I am is controversial, but I tend to keep that to myself. I doubt anyone could hit me with a privilege stick - I'm basically every minority known to man.


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QuantumChemist
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31 Jul 2017, 6:41 pm

If you want to get though higher education without having a large debt, then you need to plan well first and stick with your plan as best you can. I see many students that start in one program, get part way and then switch to a totally different field. That mistake usually costs them big money (and time). The advice I can give you is to do a net cost analysis of what you are looking at going into (using data from what people are being paid) and see if the paycheck justifies the education cost/time that you will need to get there. If it does not make financial sense, then it will likely not pay off the way you think it will. You may have to rethink your plans.

As for being to old for higher education: If you are 50 and wanting to go to medical school to become a surgeon, yes it is likely too late for you (net cost analysis would be extremely negative). There just would not be enough working time once you complete the M.D. to pay off all of the loans and the hefty insurance needed for that job. Remember, it takes a decade or so to get completely through that program, so one would be 60 just starting that job.

However, that does not mean that all jobs are off the table. I went to school with someone who graduated with his Ph.D. at age 50. He started college at age 37, after being homeless for a decade. He went into the Army right after high school. Now 60, he works for a large energy company, so it has paid off well for him. He will likely retire in five years with zero debt. He planned ahead for his future. So, it can be done.



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01 Aug 2017, 4:47 am

^ Well I'm certainly not 50, but even so, to me, considering this in any real way after the age of about 25 is risque.
Your suggestion is sound. This is one aspect I'm really looking at, but at the same time, making sure I am not just getting seduced into a bad situation by the allure of a promised job. Which is what happened at my last university escapade. I was guaranteed a job at the end of it - good conditions and wages and so on, that I ignored clear warning signs that it was all going to end badly.
I need to be sure this time and consider all angles. It needs to be something I can cope with as an autistic, but also not one of these degrees that school kids spend four years on and tens of thousands of dollars on, only to come out unemployed. It needs to lead to a real world job to be worth the time and money and fuss.
Yeah. It's difficult. I have made some inquiries of course and career planners at the community college where I am currently studying a low-level adult education course, plus at the local uni outsourced campus, about my options. :mrgreen:


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01 Aug 2017, 8:46 am

There isn't much in the way of non-corporate science jobs in the US.

This was the case when I was figuring out what to do--I had top Science marks at very good private school and there was a good chance I could have gotten one of those very rare research jobs, but I opted to get an EE degree instead.

The government isn't funding research the way it used to decades ago. There are "bake sale" funded research jobs. People with a rare disease will do fundraising and then give out research grants for people to study their rare disease.



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02 Aug 2017, 10:41 am

Wait, are you younger than 30 and worried about being too old? Seriously? Lol you can stop worrying. You're not too old.

Keep in mind that any college you go to will advise you to start at the bottom because they want your money. Do you think you could go to one of the organizations that you would want to work at and ask THEIR advice for getting your foot in the door?

Before I gave up on it, I asked a younger professor I actually respected how I would get my foot in the door at a particular university here. He told me to get to the ABD (all but dissertation) level of PhD and come back and they would hire me to teach, give me priority over other applicants. Even though I could "technically" teach there with a Masters he told me I would not be considered. That was very nice info. I also knew that I had to go to grad school in the first place at a different university than the one I wanted to teach at if I wanted to get hired there. A weird thing, but there it was. If you go right to the horse's mouth you can find out details like that.

So for you, it could be that they know a way for you to finish up and then start grad school somewhere. A person you could talk to or some program you could get in. Another thing you can do is look up Glassdoor.com, put in the organization, and find out what real people have to say about working there and what they pay. If they pay minimum wage or near that, you might want to think again. A girl I know got her bachelors in wildlife science and then went to work at a zoo making less than 30k/year. She's 31 now and last I heard her parents still help support her. She can't buy a house, can't even think about having kids. So you kind of have to think about money a little bit. Either that or you'll be depending on your current or future partner to bring in the rest of the household income, and that would suck.



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06 Aug 2017, 12:22 pm

SocOfAutism wrote:
I also knew that I had to go to grad school in the first place at a different university than the one I wanted to teach at if I wanted to get hired there. A weird thing, but there it was.


That is to prevent nepotism from occurring. Even with those rules in place, it can still happen. At my PhD university, I know of a classmate who graduated with her PhD and is still continuing her Post Doc appointment there a decade after. Somehow, she thinks that it will allow her to work her way into a full tenured professorship, but it will not. If anything, it is slowly killing her chances of a good job elsewhere.

Also, I work with a tenure-track professor who really, really wants to teach at his PhD university. However, per the rules, he cannot be hired on. Unfortunately, he takes out his frustrations of not being there on coworkers like me. I really wish they would bend the rules for this guy and just get him out of my work life.



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06 Aug 2017, 12:31 pm

C2V wrote:
^ Well I'm certainly not 50, but even so, to me, considering this in any real way after the age of about 25 is risque.
Your suggestion is sound. This is one aspect I'm really looking at, but at the same time, making sure I am not just getting seduced into a bad situation by the allure of a promised job. Which is what happened at my last university escapade. I was guaranteed a job at the end of it - good conditions and wages and so on, that I ignored clear warning signs that it was all going to end badly.
I need to be sure this time and consider all angles. It needs to be something I can cope with as an autistic, but also not one of these degrees that school kids spend four years on and tens of thousands of dollars on, only to come out unemployed. It needs to lead to a real world job to be worth the time and money and fuss.
Yeah. It's difficult. I have made some inquiries of course and career planners at the community college where I am currently studying a low-level adult education course, plus at the local uni outsourced campus, about my options. :mrgreen:


One thing that you have to do is to figure out what the projected income levels may be for the particular career that you are interested in. The hard part is that the projected income levels become much harder to predict the longer you are in school. It happened to me. When I started college, being a scientist was a respected, well-paying prospect. During the long term that I was in higher education to get my degrees, it changed dramatically to a point that I would likely question my sanity to take this route again if I had the chance. Part of the problem with this issue is the great push for STEM education at all levels without thinking what happens to those who are already there in the low-paying STEM jobs. The teachers tend to not tell students about that problem, they have to find out the hard way.