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Ichinin
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06 Aug 2017, 10:29 am

So i was offered this teaching position in the south of Stockholm. For 6 weeks i now have the option to teach network security, some basic pentesting (not my thing, but i know enough to teach the basics), and then the defensive side which involves forensics, which is my speciality (got experience and training).

I was called in one day to sign the contract, but it got delayed until the end of the day when someone realised that the right person isn't there to sign it. At this day i was also offered a specific amount of monthly pay.

When i came back, the guy i had talked to seemed to "play" confused and wanted to recalculate the offered pay, scratched his head and wanted to come to a conclusion to lower the pay. Not much, but enough to get me pissed off (didn't reflect this at the meeting). A few weeks(!) later, they sent me the contract to sign and we agreed to let it sit during the vacation time. I also have the option to continue after 6 weeks for 4 more weeks, totalling 10 weeks/2.5 months.

Now the vacation is over and i feel like i should skip the whole thing. They wanted me to sign it as quick as possible (because i'm looking for more steady work than just 6 weeks), and want to make sure there is a teacher there. People with these kinds of skills do not grow on trees. There were also parallel courses taking place and i had a candidate in mind that could jump in, but now i'm not very keen on helping out.

However, i still feel pissed off and that i cannot trust their word, even to the point where i actually would get paid for my work. I already told the guy that i feel sickened by the lack of moral in the IT/Security business and he really should understand that.

I've had bad experiences earlier with corporations and the warning bells are being set off in all directions. I have the following options:

1. Go with it, take the lowered pay, and forget that it ever happened later on (not my thing really).

2. Do the 6 weeks, but decline the rest, leaving them hanging, and at the same time teaching them a lesson that this is something you just dont f-ing do to people.

3. Decline everything and just leave them hanging, and continue to search for a steady job.

The thing is, i really love teaching and to teach a subject you love is fun and you'll learn things yourself. But i really do not want to be screwed over.

It is nothing that will add anything to my resume, i've already got enough experience. Rent money is currently not an issue. Some people i spoke to told me to drop it and move on and "let those a**hats sort themselves out". It is currently 2 weeks until the course starts.

Now - what would you do - and why? Do you have a 4th option?


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Ichinin
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08 Aug 2017, 5:05 pm

Thanks, i really know i can count on WP for input.


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aikoinazuma
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08 Aug 2017, 7:38 pm

Given your position I would consider either 2 or 3 depending on your preference. Employers do need to be taught a lesson that you don't pull this kind of crap on people. It's bad here in the US where this kind of stuff happens all the time. If money really isn't an issue I personally would go with 3 and badmouth them to anyone that might qualify for the position if you really wanted to teach them a lesson.

Sorry that no one responded earlier. I didn't see your post until a couple of moments ago.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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08 Aug 2017, 9:29 pm

I would say listen to the warning bells. Say, "Thank you, sorry I'm not your person, but I hope you find what you are looking for", then walk away and keep your life moving in directions which are good for you.


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Ichinin
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09 Aug 2017, 6:23 am

aikoinazuma wrote:
Given your position I would consider either 2 or 3 depending on your preference. Employers do need to be taught a lesson that you don't pull this kind of crap on people. It's bad here in the US where this kind of stuff happens all the time. If money really isn't an issue I personally would go with 3 and badmouth them to anyone that might qualify for the position if you really wanted to teach them a lesson.

Sorry that no one responded earlier. I didn't see your post until a couple of moments ago.


You don't have to be sorry, it's just that it was 97 people who had looked at the thread, but no one had bothered to respond.

I don't want to badmouth them, but i'm considering going there anyway, giving the background to the students as to why they wont have a teacher this fall. The number of candidates that can teach at that level is quite low, most Infosec people here in Sweden only know how to do security in Microsoft word, ask them to do anything practical and they will fail.


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Ichinin
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09 Aug 2017, 6:35 am

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
I would say listen to the warning bells. Say, "Thank you, sorry I'm not your person, but I hope you find what you are looking for", then walk away and keep your life moving in directions which are good for you.


I'm trying to, thought this was that good thing... I remember that i loved teaching.

Anyway, i am fortunate enough that recruiters contact me on LinkedIn (for how long that will last), have been to a few interviews but it is always something that prevents me from getting it, or me deciding not to continue: sometimes i can tell that they are ignorant of AS, sometimes i feel like it's a bad place (like having security department under IT = bad idea, ends up in political games that i really dislike).


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Ichinin
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09 Aug 2017, 7:00 am

Anyway, i made a decision, wrote to the guy and told that i wasn't going to do the whole thing.

Just cant get past this kind of crap.


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smudge
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09 Aug 2017, 8:56 am

1) Nobody here listens to my advice, and instead think I'm trying to put them down when I'm not, so I made a decision the other day to never offer it again.

2) I have no experience in this sort of thing.

3) Most of those visitors to your thread were likely bots.

4) You made the right decision IMO. I would have politely told them why.


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Ichinin
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09 Aug 2017, 10:44 am

smudge wrote:
1) Nobody here listens to my advice, and instead think I'm trying to put them down when I'm not, so I made a decision the other day to never offer it again.

2) I have no experience in this sort of thing.

3) Most of those visitors to your thread were likely bots.

4) You made the right decision IMO. I would have politely told them why.



1. I've had the same experience, but if i know something and feel like i can contribute to a discussion, i offer my advice to people who want it. People who whine, i put on ignore if the forum allows for it to make sure i'll never help them again.

4. I did. With an explanation that you just don't pull this kind of crap to people and that my advice would be to hire expensive consultants instead.

Sure, i miss a few months of rent, but i have this covered. I'm just glad i could do this instead of swallowing my pride.

The guy wrote me back an hour ago, but i just deleted the mail.


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kraftiekortie
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10 Aug 2017, 12:32 pm

It depends on how much you like the job, in my opinion.

How much "less" was the salary offered?

If this is a "permanent," rather than a "one-year" contract, I would more likely seek to stay with the job.

The organization employing you seems disorganized more than anything else.



Ichinin
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10 Aug 2017, 4:31 pm

I would have enjoyed it, but i'll live.

Like mentioned earlier, i do not like it when employers pull this kind of crap and it was more of a moral line they stepped over. Brought me back to when i was younger and someone tried a similar thing.

It was a total of 10 weeks, so no biggie.


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zer0netgain
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31 Aug 2017, 2:56 pm

I'm not following the situation 100 percent.

However, if I was in a similar position (told I was going to earn X then got paperwork saying X-Y), I'd not turn my nose up at the job, but I'd make a call/visit to the head of HR (or someone higher than who is dealing with me on the contract) and raise my "concerns" about the discrepancy in pay. It might get you what you were promised in the first place, and if not, having a job is better than not having a job.

I had something like this happen where I went for a job with two openings. One full-time and one part-time. While I said I was willing to consider the part-time position, when I was called with the offer, I asked and was told it was the full-time position. I show up for the paperwork and find they gave me the part-time position. I turned it down because I was so upset that I turned down a full-time job elsewhere based on their misrepresentation. Overall, it might have been better to swallow my pride and just voice to the new boss that their error resulted in me turning down a better paying position and that I did not appreciate it.



Ichinin
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31 Aug 2017, 4:43 pm

Zero, I get what you are saying, but i do not think they even have an HR department. And it was only for 10 weeks (while they offered a continuation, i wasn't very interested in this because i want a genuine full time job).

My major gripe is the lack of trust with the employer because all of this, and the obvious attempt to "play" confused. I knew where it was going after he had been trying at it after a hour. We had agreed earlier to a specific salary, but it was obvious that he was trying to lower it. A blind mouse could have picked that up.

Anyway, i'm far from poor, i have an income for a while, and i'm not exactly without options: the IT industry is screaming for people, especially in infosec. Today i was offered another possible position that i may go towards - likely with a higher pay grade above that of any infosec job. I guess time will tell.

Anyway, i've decided and acted and if any mod reads this, you can close this thread.


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