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Voxish
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16 Aug 2017, 3:12 pm

The Cat Ghost wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm a Canadian living in Canada but my wife is American. The whole "party before country" thing that Americans seem to be doing right now confuses me greatly.

There are a number of reasons why the media won't let go of the Trump story.

1. Media outlets are for-profit companies and publishing story after story on the president is generating ad revenue. It's what people want to click on right now.

2. Journalists generally try to speak truth to power and inform their fellow citizens of what is happening in the government. This provides accountability for the actions of your elected representatives. The government is carrying on in a highly unorthodox manner (this is true whether you believe their actions are good or bad) and this should be reported back to those who elected them.

3. The president has a manner of behaving and speaking that drives people crazy. Trump does not care about details he perceives as unimportant and will say whatever pops into his head to move on and avoid questions. He believes he has a plan for the country and that the media is trying to stop his efforts by holding him accountable for things he has said that have no bearing on the task at hand. For instance, with the first Charlotteville speech he denounced hatred on both sides. This is both a ridiculous thing to say but also a technically correct thing to say. He denounced both hatred (the hate groups) and the actions of the counter-protesters. To those who understand that there is no moral equivalence between an anti-hate group and a hate group this is an awful thing to say. To someone who believes that this dispute over a statue should not have become violent in the first place, there is blame on both sides... it takes two to tango, essentially. This leaves us in a situation where the president perceives himself as being under attack for no good reason, and the media is deliberately finding fault wherever fault can be found because it drives traffic to their news sites.

4. The actions of the president, and most specifically the things he says on Twitter, are embarassing the country on the world stage. Trump seems to not care about this as he believes that he is representing Americans in the fight to make the American homeland a better place to live and that how this domestic rebuilding looks to the rest of the world is not an important part of his mandate.

5. Is is possible that the president has committed crimes before taking office, during his campaign, and during his presidency. The current threads are:
A) Collusion with Russians to win the election through a cyber disinformation campaign
B) Russian money laundering through his casino and various properties
C) A deal to relax sanctions to allow Exxon to make use of and export from their massive oil reserve in Russia
D) Tax fraud

6. The president has a proven history of racism and a lot of the things he has done so far, or has attempted to do, will negatively affect minority groups.

7. The administration is leaking information like crazy and if you hand a dog a bone he will take it; hand the media a story and they will run with it.

8. The adminstration is deeply-misguided about a number of ways in which the government is supposed to work and how its plans will affect Americans. For instance:

A) the idea for a border wall, regardless of how stupid and ineffective you might think this idea is, will need to use the takings clause of the constitution to steal land from citizens who live against the border. Land rights is something that I think a lot of Americans feel strongly about and the administration seems to not understand the practical implications of this project. The media likely believes that they need to inform the public about the implications of poor policy.

B) The ACA is really hurting a lot of families who make a bit too much money to qualify for subsidies but not enough money to pay full price for their medical care. My wife's family is in this group and it is really troubling. The GOP "repeal and replace" idea is a selfish political act that refuses to accept an idea created by their rival party as having any merit when the obvious answer here is to keep the parts of ACA that work, put through new legislation that will fix and stabilize the markets, and put the subsidies through an act of congress so it is not an executive order that can be toyed with at the president's whim (something that is currently destabilizing the market greatly). Without the media's help, as the administration and the GOP are not telling the truth about what they are trying to do, the American healthcare system would be worse off than it already is.

C) The administration's war on illegals and on sanctuary cities is making the country a less safe place to live. Not less safe for white Americans, but for America's second-class citizens: minorities and recent immigrants (legal and illegal). Why would someone report a crime if it might cause them to be deported? Community policing is a very effective tool in keeping citizens safe. This conflict, regardless of how you stand on this issue, is important enough to be discussed by the media.

D) The adminstration's actions are running counter to the promises made by Trump the candidate. He promised to be an advocate for all Americans, and the way he has dealt with immigrants, demonized Islam (there are lots of people peacefully practicing Islam in America... there always has been) without any regard for the fact that Islamic Americans are Americans too, attempted to ban transgender Americans from serving in the military to save money, he didn't replace the ACA with "something wonderful" or whatever it was, he withdrew America from the Paris Accord which is a largely symbolic effort by almost every country on earth where they get to set their own targets... and the list goes on. All of this is newsworthy.

In summary, the media is covering Trump because it makes them money, because the administration is acting irresponsibly, because the words uttered by the "most powerful person on earth" make little to no sense when dissected, and mostly because the administration cares about results and winning and does not care about truth if truth doesn't help them meet their goals.



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sly279
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16 Aug 2017, 7:58 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
sly279 wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Trump won't nuke nk. We can completely lay wast to nk with massive amounts of traditional bombing and cruise middle strikes followed with a mop up operation and then United Nations occupation. We can level whole cities with air strikes. We can also strategically target every military institution they have with minimal civilian loses. If they attempt to nuke us they will be hit and I suspect like Iraq their military will surrender by the millions rather then fight. We thought the Iraqi military would fight hard until the last man. We gathered a worlds coalition and built up a huge force. The fighting was over in days and most the military withreor surrendered, then during the 2nd war there was minor fighting with massive surrenders. These troops are forced to serv the. Poorly fed and cared for, I doubt most will be loyal. The upper leadership might, but who knows they may assinate dear leader before he can even try to nuke us.


If defeating North Korea were possible, the military-industrial complex probably would have done it already.

The billionaires have plenty of good reasons to conquer North Korea. If they aren't already doing it, it's probably impossible.


We can't because it'd be war with China to attack North Korea unprovoked. We don't want a war with China. If China wasn't backing them they'd been destroyed in the Korean War and we would put have a crazy dude with nukes today.


Our megacorps have been feeding China. That's why it's so powerful.

See? Capitalism is to blame, again.

Man, I get tired of being right all the time.

Chinca kicked our ass in the Korean War long before we bought things made in china. They have the number, and the will. Same reason soviets beat Germany. Sure we killed 50'chinese per every American. I think one guy persona killed like 150 or more as they crossed the river with his machine gun, but they have billions of people. Only difference ow is their troops have gotten fatter from McDonald's



sly279
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16 Aug 2017, 8:03 pm

The Cat Ghost I disagree with a lot that you wrote but I don't have time to reply, have to get house ready for inspection on Tuesday.

I do agre about the party thing. People are loyal to their party over the nation. They refuse to work with the other party cause that would be disloyal to the party. They refuse to speak out against their party's polices they disagree with cause they fear the party will throw them out. It's terrible. It's a us vs them mentality.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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16 Aug 2017, 8:08 pm

sly279 wrote:
People are loyal to their party over the nation. They refuse to work with the other party cause that would be disloyal to the party. They refuse to speak out against their party's polices they disagree with cause they fear the party will throw them out. It's terrible. It's a us vs them mentality.


Party could be replaced by any of several other groups,

"People are loyal to their family/clan/tribe over the nation. They refuse to work with the other family/clan/tribe cause that would be disloyal to their family/clan/tribe. They refuse to speak out against their family/clan/tribe's polices they disagree with cause they fear the family/clan/tribe will throw them out. It's terrible. It's a us vs them mentality."

It appears to be a fundamental human behavior pattern.


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sly279
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16 Aug 2017, 8:37 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
sly279 wrote:
People are loyal to their party over the nation. They refuse to work with the other party cause that would be disloyal to the party. They refuse to speak out against their party's polices they disagree with cause they fear the party will throw them out. It's terrible. It's a us vs them mentality.


Party could be replaced by any of several other groups,

"People are loyal to their family/clan/tribe over the nation. They refuse to work with the other family/clan/tribe cause that would be disloyal to their family/clan/tribe. They refuse to speak out against their family/clan/tribe's polices they disagree with cause they fear the family/clan/tribe will throw them out. It's terrible. It's a us vs them mentality."

It appears to be a fundamental human behavior pattern.


Loyalty to family and love ones isn't the same as blind loyalty to a part run by the rich who's policies you don't entirely agree with and who work against your best interest.
And actually party loyalty leads people to disown their family . So party loyalty seems to trump loved ones



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18 Aug 2017, 6:13 am

sly279 wrote:
The Cat Ghost I disagree with a lot that you wrote but I don't have time to reply, have to get house ready for inspection on Tuesday.

I do agre about the party thing. People are loyal to their party over the nation. They refuse to work with the other party cause that would be disloyal to the party. They refuse to speak out against their party's polices they disagree with cause they fear the party will throw them out. It's terrible. It's a us vs them mentality.


That's totally fair if you don't agree with what I wrote. If you have time after your inspection I would love to hear what you have to say about it. I thought I was being fairly balanced in my assessment, but I'm always open to criticism.

Also, yeah, tribalism is the worst.



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16 Sep 2017, 7:05 am

...Your first three paragraphs don't really make sense :x , even presuming that " college vote " was a mis-post of " electoral college. ".
Obama won the Electoral College vote twice, Trump has won once to date.
However, Obama won the Popular Vote both times as well. Trump lost that vote, by more than 2, 750, 000 votes.
Addirionally, Trump, in 2012, made a tweet (Apparently at a moment when it looked like Obama would win the EC but lose the PV.) that arguably called for a violent uprising against Obama, and.definitely.complained in tweet about the EC system - then, after his EC victtory in 2016, came out in favor of the EC.







te="The_Blonde_Alien"]Even after the 2016 elections, the media can't help but desperately search for negative things about Donald Trump.

Why didn't the same thing happened to Obama after winning two elections straight?

Why are people and the media complaining about the college vote system now and not when Barrack Obama won two times? I mean, isn't that enough to make









eligiously brand Trump as some kind of monster when, really, all I see is a businessman financially managing the government. A good example would be when he banned transgender people from the military, mainly because the U.S. military would have to spend on their gender surgeries and such. This would essentially cut costs and make sure that 100% of the money being spent on said military would go on kicking I.S.I.S.'s @$$.

Source: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/2 ... nes-240990

All of this makes me think that maybe there is some kind of effort to create this "new world order" that conspiracy theorists have been raging about for years now.

Let's face it, Trump won. There's nothing we can do about it. Doing something about it would not only be immature , but also could make you a terrorist if taken to the extremes. Speaking of which, killing him won't make things better, I don't believe in killing presidents, a terrorist might, but not an american civilian such a I.

Can't we wait 4 years util we can vote him out of the presidency? I mean, we still have the power to take him out peacefully via the elections.

Why can't the media let go of Trump? If they can let go of Barrack Obama then surely they can do the same with Trump.

Surely there has to be a bigger agenda being enforced by the media here...

Am I the only one who thinks the same about this?[/quote]


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16 Sep 2017, 8:00 am

auntblabby wrote:
it seems to me that the people who like him hate what they fear themselves becoming when they see people who hate him.


Huh?

Can you walk me through what you are trying to say here?



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17 Sep 2017, 5:26 am

naturalplastic wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
it seems to me that the people who like him hate what they fear themselves becoming when they see people who hate him.


Huh? Can you walk me through what you are trying to say here?

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17 Sep 2017, 8:46 am

Got it. Interesting take.



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17 Sep 2017, 1:28 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
The_Blonde_Alien wrote:
Why can't the media let go of Trump?

1. Releases the energy of their repressed outrage.
2. They realized it gets clicks and views and sales which pay the light bill and their salaries.

The_Blonde_Alien wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks the same about this?

Unknown.
If the question were, "Am I the only one who thinks about this?"
Apparently not. :D


Why do you think I no longer watch any of the U.S. news networks?

It's an awfully sad state of affairs when one has to watch the BBC, NHK, and Deutsche Welle to find out what gives in the USA without the vitriol and extreme bias that gets presented as news.



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17 Sep 2017, 1:58 pm

The media needs to pay attention to Trump because he is literally putting human lives in danger.


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18 Sep 2017, 12:23 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Our megacorps have been feeding China. That's why it's so powerful.

See? Capitalism is to blame, again.

Man, I get tired of being right all the time.

tfw you want to help the poor, so you become anti-capitalist, but then you find out that capitalism feeds the poor, but you're anti-capitalist now, so you decide the poor deserve to starve, so you blame capitalism for not letting poor people starve, giving you a reason to hate capitalism.