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pawelk1986
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08 Aug 2017, 10:53 am

Why atheist are some time so fanatics not better than Muslim or Christian fanaticism some time :-)

For example, I believe in God, even though I am not His God good books, because I think I'm gay, but I still try to attend church whenever I can :-)

After WW2, our Polish communist authorities want to create model Marxist industrial Town, it was Nowa Huta (New Foundry) Industrial Iron works town, it was to be modern fully atheist town (In fact plan to create such town, but non atheist, was on Agenda of prewar Polish Government

http://www.krakow.pl/english/instcbi/36 ... stcbi.html

https://translate.google.pl/translate?s ... edit-text=

The town's initial plans for the construction of the church included the construction of the church, but the Stalinists quickly withdrew, instead of the planned church, a public school was built, although there was plenty of room for development.

But before that cross was placed there, it is such a Polish custom, in the place of the planned churches, not only Catholic churches are often placed cross as the place marked for the construction of the house of God, so to speak.

The authorities ordered the removal of this cross when the workers came to do so, they were attacked, by pissed-off people, communist power, unable to afford to lose, faces sent support, civic militia (police formation in communist Poland) were to disperse demonstrators, Tear gas and firearms, however, were attacked by the crowd, women in the windows poured boiling water on them.

The commie police started shoot at demonstrators but they was soon caught of gourd, and some of them become lynched, and crowd disarmed their service weapon, they angry mob goes for National Council (town hall and town archives ) and local communist party and secret police HQ at the same time,
They set fire to the building to flush out the hated commies and officers of the secret police.

When fire brigade from our Polish State Fire Service they also been attacked by town people, only to relent when local fire chief told them that if they not extinguish fire on communist HQ, the fire can caught other buildings and put ablaze whole town.
Karol Wojtyla freshly appointed auxiliary bishop of Cracow , later Pope John Paul II, tried to calm the situation, saying that I understood the anger of the locals, caused by arrogance and hatred of God, but protesting in such an aggressive way did not put our Polish Catholics In the best light



Atheism vs Theism, and Marxist nonsense?

What do you think about that

Communist was against religion Christianity in ti's Catholic version especially, they accused us Catholics that Roman Catholic Church is more loyal to Vatican State, than our own government, that in turn was more loyal to Kremlin and Communist Russian barbarism than it's own citizens :-)


Roman Catholic Church in communist countries vs state sponsored atheism?



adifferentname
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08 Aug 2017, 11:40 am

pawelk1986 wrote:
Why atheist are some time so fanatics not better than Muslim or Christian fanaticism some time :-)


Same reason some rugby supporters are just as fanatical as basketball supporters. Tribal supremacy isn't limited to religions (or niche cults).

Quote:
After WW2, our Polish communist authorities want to create model Marxist industrial Town, it was Nowa Huta (New Foundry) Industrial Iron works town, it was to be modern fully atheist town (In fact plan to create such town, but non atheist, was on Agenda of prewar Polish Government


Your problem there is with socialism, not atheism. Marxism is, for all intents and purposes, a parasitic secular religion.

You can't worship both Big Momma Government and God.



pawelk1986
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08 Aug 2017, 12:08 pm

adifferentname wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
Why atheist are some time so fanatics not better than Muslim or Christian fanaticism some time :-)


Same reason some rugby supporters are just as fanatical as basketball supporters. Tribal supremacy isn't limited to religions (or niche cults).

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After WW2, our Polish communist authorities want to create model Marxist industrial Town, it was Nowa Huta (New Foundry) Industrial Iron works town, it was to be modern fully atheist town (In fact plan to create such town, but non atheist, was on Agenda of prewar Polish Government


Your problem there is with socialism, not atheism. Marxism is, for all intents and purposes, a parasitic secular religion.

You can't worship both Big Momma Government and God.


LOL :mrgreen:

viewtopic.php?t=352272

Although most'm full of admiration for firefighters who wanted to save those commies when people set fire to their Commie headquarter, why they want to risk their lives for communists :mrgreen:



BettaPonic
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08 Aug 2017, 8:16 pm

I think secularism is better for government. You let people practice their religion in a way that respects their rights.



pawelk1986
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09 Aug 2017, 4:05 am

BettaPonic wrote:
I think secularism is better for government. You let people practice their religion in a way that respects their rights.


Yes, it is true, for example, I am a believer but fanaticism is also bad, otherwise we Christians, we would not differ from those ISIS freaks :mrgreen:

Like it was in my Poland in 60's when, angry people tried to put fire on Commie HQ, with commies inside :mrgreen:
And than they started even attack firefighters who started rescue operation :(

viewtopic.php?t=352272



funeralxempire
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09 Aug 2017, 12:22 pm

adifferentname wrote:
Your problem there is with socialism, not atheism. Marxism is, for all intents and purposes, a parasitic secular religion.

You can't worship both Big Momma Government and God.


You seem to have a poor understanding of socialism. Among issues, Marxism and socialism aren't synonymous and not all socialists are non-believers - otherwise Christian socialism, Islamic socialism, etc wouldn't exist. :wink:


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pawelk1986
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09 Aug 2017, 5:52 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Your problem there is with socialism, not atheism. Marxism is, for all intents and purposes, a parasitic secular religion.

You can't worship both Big Momma Government and God.


You seem to have a poor understanding of socialism. Among issues, Marxism and socialism aren't synonymous and not all socialists are non-believers - otherwise Christian socialism, Islamic socialism, etc wouldn't exist. :wink:


So why so many socialist love Karl Marx so much? :mrgreen:



funeralxempire
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10 Aug 2017, 1:24 am

pawelk1986 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Your problem there is with socialism, not atheism. Marxism is, for all intents and purposes, a parasitic secular religion.

You can't worship both Big Momma Government and God.


You seem to have a poor understanding of socialism. Among issues, Marxism and socialism aren't synonymous and not all socialists are non-believers - otherwise Christian socialism, Islamic socialism, etc wouldn't exist. :wink:


So why so many socialist love Karl Marx so much? :mrgreen:


Not sure if srs, or just messing. :lol:

Many religious people love Jesus, are all religious people Christian?
Many ice cream fans prefer chocolate, is all ice cream chocolate? Even if 99% of ice cream fans would only eat chocolate ice cream that wouldn't cause other flavours to cease to exist.

Karl Marx is undeniably important to the development of socialist doctrine, even to non-Marxist forms of socialism, but to pretend that he's the be-all, end-all of socialism is either ignorant/naive/uninformed, or just flat-out dishonest depending on if one knows better or not.

Socialism predates Karl Marx. Some socialists both during his lifetime and afterwards have rejected much of his ideas. Marxism only represents one limb on the tree of socialist ideology. Pierre-Joseph Proudhon was a contemporary of Marx who strongly disagreed with him, and the anarchists and counsel communists and social democrats and others who were inspired by him tend to be critical of all evolutions of Marxism. Beyond them, the various religious socialists I mentioned previously reject Marxism and use their religion of choice as the main argument in favour of their interpretation of a socialist lifestyle.

Someone like Tommy Douglas is a socialist but most certainly not a Marxist.


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adifferentname
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10 Aug 2017, 2:19 am

funeralxempire wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Your problem there is with socialism, not atheism. Marxism is, for all intents and purposes, a parasitic secular religion.

You can't worship both Big Momma Government and God.


You seem to have a poor understanding of socialism. Among issues, Marxism and socialism aren't synonymous and not all socialists are non-believers - otherwise Christian socialism, Islamic socialism, etc wouldn't exist. :wink:


You seem to have poor reading comprehension. Where did I suggest Marxism and socialism are one and the same?

Socialism is a necessary transitional stage in Marxist theory, and therefore innate to it - which I'll assume you're aware of, as you're presenting yourself as an expert. Marxism necessarily includes socialism.

Which was referred to in pawelk's OP, and specifically in the part I quoted?

"our Polish communist authorities want to create model Marxist industrial Town"

Next time you feel inclined to step into a large puddle of fallacies, consider pausing to measure how deep it is.



pawelk1986
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10 Aug 2017, 4:26 pm

adifferentname wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Your problem there is with socialism, not atheism. Marxism is, for all intents and purposes, a parasitic secular religion.

You can't worship both Big Momma Government and God.


You seem to have a poor understanding of socialism. Among issues, Marxism and socialism aren't synonymous and not all socialists are non-believers - otherwise Christian socialism, Islamic socialism, etc wouldn't exist. :wink:


You seem to have poor reading comprehension. Where did I suggest Marxism and socialism are one and the same?

Socialism is a necessary transitional stage in Marxist theory, and therefore innate to it - which I'll assume you're aware of, as you're presenting yourself as an expert. Marxism necessarily includes socialism.

Which was referred to in pawelk's OP, and specifically in the part I quoted?

"our Polish communist authorities want to create model Marxist industrial Town"

Next time you feel inclined to step into a large puddle of fallacies, consider pausing to measure how deep it is.



http://www.krakow.pl/english/instcbi/36 ... stcbi.html

http://inside-poland.com/t/battle-for-a ... uta-cross/



funeralxempire
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11 Aug 2017, 12:52 am

adifferentname wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Your problem there is with socialism, not atheism. Marxism is, for all intents and purposes, a parasitic secular religion.

You can't worship both Big Momma Government and God.


You seem to have a poor understanding of socialism. Among issues, Marxism and socialism aren't synonymous and not all socialists are non-believers - otherwise Christian socialism, Islamic socialism, etc wouldn't exist. :wink:


You seem to have poor reading comprehension. Where did I suggest Marxism and socialism are one and the same?

Socialism is a necessary transitional stage in Marxist theory, and therefore innate to it - which I'll assume you're aware of, as you're presenting yourself as an expert. Marxism necessarily includes socialism.

Which was referred to in pawelk's OP, and specifically in the part I quoted?

"our Polish communist authorities want to create model Marxist industrial Town"

Next time you feel inclined to step into a large puddle of fallacies, consider pausing to measure how deep it is.


You're welcome to attempt to re-interpret your post however you wish to make it less indefensible, but I'll stand by my initial response, kthnxbai.


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11 Aug 2017, 4:53 am

funeralxempire wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Your problem there is with socialism, not atheism. Marxism is, for all intents and purposes, a parasitic secular religion.

You can't worship both Big Momma Government and God.


You seem to have a poor understanding of socialism. Among issues, Marxism and socialism aren't synonymous and not all socialists are non-believers - otherwise Christian socialism, Islamic socialism, etc wouldn't exist. :wink:


You seem to have poor reading comprehension. Where did I suggest Marxism and socialism are one and the same?

Socialism is a necessary transitional stage in Marxist theory, and therefore innate to it - which I'll assume you're aware of, as you're presenting yourself as an expert. Marxism necessarily includes socialism.

Which was referred to in pawelk's OP, and specifically in the part I quoted?

"our Polish communist authorities want to create model Marxist industrial Town"

Next time you feel inclined to step into a large puddle of fallacies, consider pausing to measure how deep it is.


You're welcome to attempt to re-interpret your post however you wish to make it less indefensible, but I'll stand by my initial response, kthnxbai.


Yet in failing to support it, concede the point whilst simultaneously admitting the strawman.

As the de facto authority on the contents of my mind, I find in favour of my intended meaning over your uncharitable misrepresentation. Thanks for playing.



izzeme
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11 Aug 2017, 11:58 am

With Trias Politica, the government isn't supposed to have a stance on religion, not theism, not atheism (which is a rejection of dieties), nothing at all.
If any stance has to be applied to governments, it would have to be agnostisism (in the translation of "dunno, dun care")



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11 Aug 2017, 1:32 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
You seem to have a poor understanding of socialism. Among issues, Marxism and socialism aren't synonymous and not all socialists are non-believers - otherwise Christian socialism, Islamic socialism, etc wouldn't exist.


I can't comment on Islamic socialism but Christian socialism has always puzzled me, it's like being a moral vegetarian and simultaneously hunting animals for sport on the weekends. They must have a very strange understanding of the Christian message, or a very limited understanding of socialism - or both.


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funeralxempire
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12 Aug 2017, 12:30 am

Mikah wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
You seem to have a poor understanding of socialism. Among issues, Marxism and socialism aren't synonymous and not all socialists are non-believers - otherwise Christian socialism, Islamic socialism, etc wouldn't exist.


I can't comment on Islamic socialism but Christian socialism has always puzzled me, it's like being a moral vegetarian and simultaneously hunting animals for sport on the weekends. They must have a very strange understanding of the Christian message, or a very limited understanding of socialism - or both.


Your analogy sounds deeply flawed and suggests a limited understanding of what is meant by Christian socialism. While someone like Francis Bellamy or John Ruskin or Adin Ballou certainly can't speak for all Christians everywhere, I feel like they're likely better informed on Christian theology than you or I are.

Both religions promote charity and in the case of Christianity many early (and later, for that matter) Christian sects have promoted communal living. They're critical of those who horde wealth, they're utterly intolerant of those who would turn their back on their fellows in need. That's what drives religious socialism, you're welcome to disagree with them over their interpretation but it would be misguided at best to insist they're not motivated by their interpretation of their faith and it's core tenants.

Any religion that promotes charity among the community of believers could hypothetically spawn a socialist ideology rooted in that religion.


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