"You'll be a conseravtive when you're older."

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15 Aug 2017, 3:53 pm

I've been on a similar road with the OP. Although I started out with liberalish beliefs before I even knew what a liberal or conservative was, I became a libertarian after becoming more politically aware . I was never extreme enough to want to get rid of a safety net altogether, but I still saw it as something that can be used as a hammock and my meritocratic views in hindsight were naive and based on victim blaming rhetoric.

Nowadays I am far left and have disowned both the entire right side of the spectrum and centrists altogether. Being both an Aspie and a racial minority, I have always known that racism and discrimination against Aspies was a thing but I never really realized the full extent of it until I learned the hard way. I have come to embrace identity politics (which I loathed as a rugged individualist) after dealing with both white NT's and Aspies being out of touch with racism. I have more in common with socialists than liberals, but socialists in my experience tend to focus on class above all while identity politics is more of a liberal thing (which is still more of a mixed bag among liberals) so I really don't know what to label myself.

Throughout all these changes, I have still maintained a few views on some issues. I have always been pro-gun and anti-drug prohibition throughout life and I look down on religion (especially Christianity and Islam) just as much as I did in my libertarian days. As much as I hate the horseshoe rhetoric that centrists like to use, it still blows my mind that both liberals and conservatives like to defend one religion while bashing the other.

I know people might get the wrong idea about me associating myself with the far-left, but that doesn't mean I swallow everything associated with it. For one, I consider the white privilege definition of "racism" to be highly flawed and acknowledge that even though white people are the majority and have a higher concentration of power, white people can in fact face racism. Also, I stay the hell out of gender politics altogether since both men and women are inherently out of touch with each other's issues as well as people of different sexual orientations.

slam_thunderhide
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15 Aug 2017, 6:09 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Hi all. Brace yourselves. This is going to be another rant. I want to talk about a political argument that I'm sick of hearing.

"I used to self-identify as a liberal. You'll become a conservative when you're older."

I find this to be a garbage argument because I was actually a conservative when I was younger.

I was very right-wing as a kid because I was hyper-ambitious. I felt as though I was destined for great things because I was smarter than everyone else. Now I'm an adult and I struggle to stay employed. I've discovered that the capitalist system is brutal, even for people who are intelligent. As a kid, I assumed that all poor people were gangsta thugs who weren't working hard enough. I was wrong. I regularly work until I'm on the verge of an emotional breakdown and I still struggle.

Additionally, I was a user on a conservative forum for a while when I was in my early twenties. Lots of people were using the phrase "Nuke em' till the sand glows!" when discussing the Middle East. Nobody there had a reasonable plan for liberating he Middle East.

In other words, most of these war hawks aren't driven by reason. They're driven by juvenile testosterone fantasies.

The conservative-liberal divide sold to the masses by the media is a false dichotomy that you, like about 99% of people, are obviously unable to see through.

There are other approaches to politics apart from supporting unfettered capitalism and pointless wars in the Middle East on the one hand (as media-approved conservatives do) and supporting open borders and all manner of state-enforced degeneracy (as media-approved liberals do). The globalist establishment in fact supports all these things, as anyone who’s been paying attention should be able to work out.

By the way, if you simply continue holding the same opinions then in 15 or 20 years you will be considered a conservative by default, as by then the left will be supporting forms of social degeneracy you haven’t even dreamed of.

slam_thunderhide
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15 Aug 2017, 6:10 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Neo-liberalism exists because the most privileged people in the world want an even more cushy existence.

Neo-liberalism embraces the market forces which are effectively taking from the rich and giving to the poor.

50 years ago, about 1/7th of the world was rich and 6/7th were poor with little prospect of getting rich. Now, 1/7th is rich, 4/7ths are fairly comfortable and could realistically become rich in their lifetimes, 1/7th is poor but getting richer, and 1/7th is poor with little prospect of getting rich. This is because of neoliberal policies which have a) encouraged money to circulate around the world, and b) enabled innovations which have further encouraged global capitalism and development.

That's why it is despised both by nationalist populists like Sanders, Trump, and Melenchon, who see money that goes to poor countries as money that their countries have "lost".

Walrus with his neoliberal propaganda again. I guess that parroting this stuff must make him feel intellectually superior to those losers who can’t cut it in the real world and yet simultaneously morally superior to all those who don’t care as much as he (really really) does about the world’s poor. He probably read something about Adam Smith’s Invisible Hand at 16 and still hasn’t got over the thrill of knowing something most of his peers didn’t.

His views will probably be closer to Darth’s in 10 or 15 years, ie- different, but still wrong.

funeralxempire
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15 Aug 2017, 9:23 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:

as by then the left will be supporting forms of social degeneracy you haven’t even dreamed of.

There's nothing new in that field left to do, unless maybe they were to embrace the degenerates known as Nazis - but so far that appears to be more typical of the other side.

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15 Aug 2017, 9:39 pm

I'm 51 years old. If I haven't become a conservative yet - which I definitely haven't - then I doubt I ever will.

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marshall
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16 Aug 2017, 5:29 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

marshall wrote:

Modern conservatism is not true conservatism in the older sense. Worship of capitalism is something entirely modern. Neo-liberalism is entirely modern.

You are very right and very intelligent, but I want to add something.

Neo-liberalism is very modern, but the idea behind it is very old. Neo-liberalism exists because the most privileged people in the world want an even more cushy existence.

As technology marches on, world leaders find new ways of controlling people. The elites wish they could destroy democracy outright, but that would trigger internet backlash, so they stealthily manipulate our democratic institutions instead.

Maybe there are some in the elite that take advantage of it, but the typical conservative does not believe he/she is merely fighting for the elites to have more wealth and power. They believe they are defending what they see as the "tried and true" way.

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16 Aug 2017, 5:38 pm

I used to be more conservative when I was younger, but all the knocks I've had in life have taught me compassion and that we need to look out for the little guy. I feel that conservatives live in a bubble, like I used to, and don't realise what other people are experiencing. They just know their own truth, not what others are living.

I'd be happy for a conservative to correct that view. But that's how it comes across to me.
I reckon all people should have to do volunteer work and help a diverse range of role to get some scope to their world view.

slam_thunderhide
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18 Aug 2017, 12:57 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

On the whole, the left has offered my hope and emotional comfort. The right only ruined my youth with false "rags-to-riches" promises. To Hell with them.

Oh yeah, and I forgot to add ...

baww! abloo bloo bloo!

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18 Aug 2017, 1:06 pm

[MOD]

Let's limit the personal jabs, please.

[/MOD]

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marshall
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18 Aug 2017, 3:22 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:

If you don't support unfettered capitalism, Murrikan conservatives will paint you as a lefty... by definition. Believe in global warming? Lefty. Don't want to destroy the environment? Lefty. Think trade unions play a vital role in protecting the middle class? You commie!! ! This isn't Eurofagland where people are allowed to have nuanced political opinions. Get with the program and choose a side. Since you aren't into capitalism you might as well put on your Che shirt and join the club, comrade.

Even if you don't believe in the "left-right" dichotomy, someone else will go ahead and put you in it.

funeralxempire
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18 Aug 2017, 3:38 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

On the whole, the left has offered my hope and emotional comfort. The right only ruined my youth with false "rags-to-riches" promises. To Hell with them.

Oh yeah, and I forgot to add ...

baww! abloo bloo bloo!

I hope someday I can be as edgy as you. :lol:

slam_thunderhide
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25 Sep 2017, 5:08 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

slam_thunderhide wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

On the whole, the left has offered my hope and emotional comfort. The right only ruined my youth with false "rags-to-riches" promises. To Hell with them.

Oh yeah, and I forgot to add ...

baww! abloo bloo bloo!

I hope someday I can be as edgy as you. :lol:

Thanks funeralxempire, I got the meme from darth himself.

I like your meme too. I think I might borrow it.

marshall
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25 Sep 2017, 5:49 pm

Mikah wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

This is precisely why I'm not a conservative. Life throws enough responsibilities at me. Religion adds more responsibilities on top of that. Why would I want to deliberately make my life harder?

It's a different kind of responsibility, a moral responsibility and a hope that your neighbours will follow similar rules to ease the burden of the other, more temporal responsibilities.

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

It was my "world-changing exuberance" that made me a young conservative. I thought "I'm a genius! I can do everything myself, without any help from the community!"

Well not everyone follows the stereotype... besides your particular young man's disease sounds like Thatcherism or Reaganism: economic liberalism, a godless strain of conservatism. Not socialism, but not as far from the anti-tradition world reformers as you might think.

Modern conservatism in the west is economic liberalism with a side-dose of Ayn Rand testosterone worship. With the election of Trump, the most fundamental tenet of conservatism is "empathy is for weaklings". "Values" conservatism is dead.

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26 Sep 2017, 7:49 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Pepe
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26 Sep 2017, 8:01 pm

Chichikov wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

You'll become a conservative when you're older.

What people mean by that is that when you're young\a student you're typically unemployed so it's easier to believe in the left-wing socialist ideology. However when you're older you'll have a job and you'll understand how the real world works, and when you see the deductions on your pay packet for tax and you see that tax going to people who simply didn't work as hard as you have you'll give up those socialist ideas. It's very common for the left-wing advocates to be students\unemployed\unemployable etc. Basically anyone who will benefit from being given things rather than working for them.

Well said...
And yes, most people on welfare seem to vote Labor, for obvious reasons...

While I still lean to a more conservative political orientation, I was more conservative 30 years ago.
However, give me another Bob Hawk and Paul Keating Labor party partnership, I'd jump at the chance to vote for them.

I still laugh at the chagrined expression on John Howard's face when they kept stealing the Liberal party's good conservative policies...<chuckle>

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