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Marknis
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11 Aug 2017, 11:14 pm

Usually when you hear about Creationism, it's usually Christian creationism. But what a lot of people don't know is that there are other schools of creationism, most notably Vedic creationism. Michael Cremo is probably the best known example of this and has a few books, most notably Forbidden Archaeology, published on the subject.

He's at odds with both Christian creationists and evolutionary scientists. One one hand, he thinks the Earth is billions of years old but on the other hand, he thinks Darwinian evolution is wrong and the product of "knowledge filtration". To be fair, he's more intelligent than Ken Ham and Kent Hovind but his statements that knowledge of extreme human antiquity has been and is still being suppressed border on the insanity that are conspiracy theories.

http://www.mcremo.com

https://www.amazon.com/Forbidden-Archeo ... 0892132949



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11 Aug 2017, 11:53 pm

There are also Muslim creationists of course. A fellow called Adnan Oktar a few years ago sent thousands of copies of an Islamic creationist book to scientists around the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Oktar

And part of Erdogan's re-Islamicization of Turkey has been to cut evolution from Turkish schools:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... icial-says


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12 Aug 2017, 7:19 am

Pretty much anything you'd try to go on from 2000 to 500 BC, or earlier, will be dodgy and our inability to penetrate either the cultural or political psychology will also generate all kinds of strange ideas as well - such as Christian spiritual warfare types suggesting that the ancients were creating genetic chimeras as portals for demons (eg. Tom Horn et al.) from the hybrid human-animal glyphs they made or other theories of 'ancient astronauts' coming to visit us.

I was listening to someone recently, really a lecture he gave back in 2013, that's probably one of the most fascinating spiritualizations of evolution - as we know it - that I've ever heard, and he managed that without massive skews of historical data (or at least if he did make errors they were nothing that his points and ideas hinged on). With stuff like the Global Consciousness Project being a thing I do think it's possible that we could come to see evolution in at least a slightly less cold light and possibly the idea that there was a semblance of will and a cosmic desire to self-actualize driving it. I'd be hard pressed to call that creationism though, it might have a slightly Hindu or Buddhist flavor but I also think that the current knowledge processed into it would blow the hinges off a lot of the dogmas from those times, drafted with much less human knowledge, and also to consider that there's been any kind of cosmic will pushing forward for several billion years to create something causes me to increasingly doubt a) that we're likely to blow ourselves up b) that all of this came about so we could have a war with matter and consider our goal to be leaving physical reality by gnostic means.


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kraftiekortie
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12 Aug 2017, 7:29 am

I find the Vedic version to be much more sensical than the Biblical one.

It doesn't mean I believe in anything other than evolution, though.



Wolfram87
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12 Aug 2017, 7:38 am

If we're gonna do creationism, I'ma propose the nordic one; the world was made from the corpse of an ancient giant that was murdered by some dudes while he was nursing from a priordial cow. Clear?


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naturalplastic
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12 Aug 2017, 7:41 am

The Abrahamic religons adhere to a naïve and absurdly small timescale. That of less than then thousand years for the age of the Universe.

Hindu cosmology goes in cycles 4.3 billion year ages of destruction and rebirth. Its much more in tune with the timescales of the real Universe. But they don't have a concept of organisms changing gradually over time. So evolution doesn't fit in to it.



DarthMetaKnight
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12 Aug 2017, 2:41 pm

Vedic creationism is just another type of trash.

Yeah, the Vedic creationists think that the universe is billions of years old. That's nice. Unfortunately, many of them believe that humans have existed for billions of years, which makes no sense.

In reality, anatomically modern humans have existed for the last 300,000 years. The last common ancestor of humans and chimps lived 7 million years ago.

Some creationists use numbers that are too big. Others use numbers that are too small.

Why can't people just use science? It's far more interesting than any man-made fairy tale.


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Kraichgauer
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12 Aug 2017, 5:24 pm

I have to wonder what (Christian) creationists would say if the creation accounts of every religion were to be taught in public schools?


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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12 Aug 2017, 5:40 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I have to wonder what (Christian) creationists would say if the creation accounts of every religion were to be taught in public schools?
That could be, shall we say, interesting.
Fair is fair, is fair not.
(and I say that even as a Christian, not a very good one, but one nonetheless)


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Kraichgauer
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12 Aug 2017, 5:48 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I have to wonder what (Christian) creationists would say if the creation accounts of every religion were to be taught in public schools?
That could be, shall we say, interesting.
Fair is fair, is fair not.
(and I say that even as a Christian, not a very good one, but one nonetheless)


I fancy myself a Christian as well, but the last thing I want is to have the Biblical creation account taught in science classes.


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DarthMetaKnight
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12 Aug 2017, 6:14 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I have to wonder what (Christian) creationists would say if the creation accounts of every religion were to be taught in public schools?
That could be, shall we say, interesting.
Fair is fair, is fair not.
(and I say that even as a Christian, not a very good one, but one nonetheless)


I fancy myself a Christian as well, but the last thing I want is to have the Biblical creation account taught in science classes.


That's good.

Science was originally called "natural philosophy" for a reason. Science is about the natural world. When you start discussing the supernatural realm, you aren't discussing science anymore.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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12 Aug 2017, 7:42 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
When you start discussing the supernatural realm, you aren't discussing science anymore.
At least not until science can figure out how to peer-reviewably document the supernatural.
Which probably isn't going to happen this week :lol:


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