Canada vs. U.S.A. Which is better off right now?

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The_Blonde_Alien
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12 Aug 2017, 5:56 pm

As a Puerto Rican, the idea of moving to another country is a common destiny I share with my peers. Most Puerto Ricans would move to the U.S. (either to Florida or NYC) since most of us have U.S. citizenship and don't need to have a passport to enter, and, unlike Puerto Rico, the U.S. has a more developed economy meaning more job opportunities for us to get.

Sadly, after the 2016 elections, the U.S. has never been the same again. Democrats and Republicans are at war with each other, with many violet protests, events and crimes are being done by both sides, with one that just recently happened at Charlottesvile: https://www.yahoo.com/gma/car-rams-crow ... ories.html

^Apparently there was a white nationalist rally over there. And, after doing a little research over here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nat ... ite_note-2 I realized that white nationalism can essentially be considered a form of racism.

"So what if there was a racist rally?" the angry grey Mustang driver probably asked him/herself, "They surely dissever to be criticized!" he/she probably said.

...Unfortunately the would-be social justice warrior's definition of "criticism" was rather...deadly. :cry:

It's almost as if there was second civil war already. :cry:

I have since tried to defend president Donald Trump in hopes of making sense of the chaos that has been unleashed among the american people, but I have grown tired of doing so. Both sides are as corrupt as they claim each other to be, and I want nothing to do with their petty political/cultural war!

So I want to move to Canada. How it over there? :) It surely must be better how the U.S.A. is doing with the Trump administration right now, right?

Is Canada doing any better than the U.S.? Or are they even more problems over there than I think?

Please let me know with your reply.

-Molly


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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12 Aug 2017, 7:46 pm

One factor:

Quote:
"Canadian health care has been steadily going downhill for the past 30 years. It’s currently ranked 10th out of 11 similar public systems around the developed world, yet spends the sixth-highest amount of money.

In short, said Avery, it is “an expensive system that doesn’t actually give people what they need.”

In Avery’s view, Canadian health care is now at a crossroads — either it can continue along the path it’s on and keep going downhill, or governments can come together to institute a national set of guidelines, and turn a corner."

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/politic ... -standards

Quote:
Canada has some of the longest waits for medical care in the developed world. Same-day or next-day appointments with a doctor are difficult to get – and in the evening or on weekends, fuggedaboutit. Waits in the ER can be seemingly endless. Referrals to specialists result in lengthy waits. The wait for elective surgery is often painfully long.

These badges of shame are laid bare once again in a new report from the Canadian Institute for Health Information.

Worse yet, the CIHI data barely scratch the surface. The wait to see a doctor in the ER may stretch for hours, but if you need to be admitted to hospital, it can jump to days. The wait for home care services often stretches for months, and a patient needing a long-term care bed can languish in limbo for years.

Canada’s health-care system suffers from what experts call “code gridlock” – provision of care moves at a glacial rhythm because of clogs in the system.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... e34056251/

Quote:
The Ontario health care system may not be “sustainable,” Health Minister Dr. Eric Hoskins acknowledged this week.
...
But the largest and arguably wealthiest province in the country has the fewest hospital beds and nurses per capita, spends $1 billion of its home care budget on administration, is in a prolonged battle with its doctors over compensation and is plagued by long wait times, especially for specialist services.

Unless the federal government coughs up more cash than it’s currently offering, it’s going to get worse.

It might get worse anyway.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/02/11/on ... ing-behind


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Last edited by kitesandtrainsandcats on 12 Aug 2017, 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Chronos
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12 Aug 2017, 7:50 pm

The_Blonde_Alien wrote:
As a Puerto Rican, the idea of moving to another country is a common destiny I share with my peers. Most Puerto Ricans would move to the U.S. (either to Florida or NYC) since most of us have U.S. citizenship and don't need to have a passport to enter, and, unlike Puerto Rico, the U.S. has a more developed economy meaning more job opportunities for us to get.

Sadly, after the 2016 elections, the U.S. has never been the same again. Democrats and Republicans are at war with each other, with many violet protests, events and crimes are being done by both sides, with one that just recently happened at Charlottesvile: https://www.yahoo.com/gma/car-rams-crow ... ories.html

^Apparently there was a white nationalist rally over there. And, after doing a little research over here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nat ... ite_note-2 I realized that white nationalism can essentially be considered a form of racism.

"So what if there was a racist rally?" the angry grey Mustang driver probably asked him/herself, "They surely dissever to be criticized!" he/she probably said.

...Unfortunately the would-be social justice warrior's definition of "criticism" was rather...deadly. :cry:

It's almost as if there was second civil war already. :cry:

I have since tried to defend president Donald Trump in hopes of making sense of the chaos that has been unleashed among the american people, but I have grown tired of doing so. Both sides are as corrupt as they claim each other to be, and I want nothing to do with their petty political/cultural war!

So I want to move to Canada. How it over there? :) It surely must be better how the U.S.A. is doing with the Trump administration right now, right?

Is Canada doing any better than the U.S.? Or are they even more problems over there than I think?

Please let me know with your reply.

-Molly


You might consider asking "Why do some Canadians move to the U.S.?" I've by no means done any comprehensive research on this, but the reason I have come by tend to be things like nicer weather and more economic opportunities.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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12 Aug 2017, 7:58 pm

From 2011, I do not know if things have changed for autism.

Quote:
"Last week a story in the Ottawa Citizen told the story of 17-year-old Lewis Crowe. Because he has autism the Canadian Government has banned Lewis from living in Canada and in order to visit the country he needs special permission from the immigration department.

To make things worse, his father and stepmother have also been refused permanent resident cards due to the fear that they will bring Lewis with them. This is after the Crowe’s told Canadian Immigration Officials that Lewis would stay with his biological mother in England and has long-term plans to enroll in a residential college for individuals with learning disabilities. The article continues to rip the immigration department for being cruel and cold hearted.

As Lewis’s “autism spectrum disorder might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demand” on Canada’s health and social services, immigration officials ruled he was “inadmissible … on health grounds.”"


http://www.friendshipcircle.org/blog/20 ... -dont-mix/


Quote:
York University prof denied permanent residency over son's Down syndrome
Family believes Canada's medical inadmissibility laws are discriminatory
CBC News Posted: Mar 14, 2016 9:28 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 15, 2016 7:48 AM ET
A Costa Rican family is leaving Toronto after three years in Canada because immigration officials say their son's Down syndrome is too much of a burden on taxpayers.

Moncton family to be deported to South Korea over son's epilepsy
5 times the U.S., Canada have barred immigrants based on race, nationality or disability

This is not the first time Canada has barred entry or denied residency to people with illnesses or disabilities.

In 2011, a South Korean family living in New Brunswick faced deportation because their teenage son is autistic. The deportation order was later reversed amid public outcry.

The National Post reported in 2012 that a University of Victoria professor from the U.S. and his family members were denied permanent residency in Canada because of their four-year-old son's autism.

The Immigration and Citizenship Act states "a foreign national is inadmissible on health grounds if their health condition might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demand on health or social services."

The couple said this is at odds with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/p ... -1.3489120

Quote:
The government bets that people won’t have the time, money or energy to fight and doesn’t back down when they do. They do this despite the Charter and despite the UNCRPD which Canada has ratified. Article 18 of the UNCRPD directly states that
...
18(2) is particularly important to one case of refusing a Yukon family residency because in this case the disabled child was born in Canada and thus a Canadian citizen but because the rest of the family were noncitizens, when they were deported, they had to choose to either take him with them (and saving Canada the cost of his care) or leaving him behind (ensuring care but depriving them of him). Basically, Canada was able to deprive a disabled Canadian citizen of his rights by forcing his noncitizen parents into an impossible choice.

https://crippledscholar.com/2016/04/19/ ... in-canada/


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Chronos
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12 Aug 2017, 10:07 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
From 2011, I do not know if things have changed for autism.
Quote:
"Last week a story in the Ottawa Citizen told the story of 17-year-old Lewis Crowe. Because he has autism the Canadian Government has banned Lewis from living in Canada and in order to visit the country he needs special permission from the immigration department.

To make things worse, his father and stepmother have also been refused permanent resident cards due to the fear that they will bring Lewis with them. This is after the Crowe’s told Canadian Immigration Officials that Lewis would stay with his biological mother in England and has long-term plans to enroll in a residential college for individuals with learning disabilities. The article continues to rip the immigration department for being cruel and cold hearted.

As Lewis’s “autism spectrum disorder might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demand” on Canada’s health and social services, immigration officials ruled he was “inadmissible … on health grounds.”"


http://www.friendshipcircle.org/blog/20 ... -dont-mix/


Quote:
York University prof denied permanent residency over son's Down syndrome
Family believes Canada's medical inadmissibility laws are discriminatory
CBC News Posted: Mar 14, 2016 9:28 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 15, 2016 7:48 AM ET
A Costa Rican family is leaving Toronto after three years in Canada because immigration officials say their son's Down syndrome is too much of a burden on taxpayers.

Moncton family to be deported to South Korea over son's epilepsy
5 times the U.S., Canada have barred immigrants based on race, nationality or disability

This is not the first time Canada has barred entry or denied residency to people with illnesses or disabilities.

In 2011, a South Korean family living in New Brunswick faced deportation because their teenage son is autistic. The deportation order was later reversed amid public outcry.

The National Post reported in 2012 that a University of Victoria professor from the U.S. and his family members were denied permanent residency in Canada because of their four-year-old son's autism.

The Immigration and Citizenship Act states "a foreign national is inadmissible on health grounds if their health condition might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demand on health or social services."

The couple said this is at odds with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/p ... -1.3489120

Quote:
The government bets that people won’t have the time, money or energy to fight and doesn’t back down when they do. They do this despite the Charter and despite the UNCRPD which Canada has ratified. Article 18 of the UNCRPD directly states that
...
18(2) is particularly important to one case of refusing a Yukon family residency because in this case the disabled child was born in Canada and thus a Canadian citizen but because the rest of the family were noncitizens, when they were deported, they had to choose to either take him with them (and saving Canada the cost of his care) or leaving him behind (ensuring care but depriving them of him). Basically, Canada was able to deprive a disabled Canadian citizen of his rights by forcing his noncitizen parents into an impossible choice.

https://crippledscholar.com/2016/04/19/ ... in-canada/


It's not unusual for a country to prohibit those with "serious" health problems from immigrating. They are worried the person would be a burden to the tax payers.



The_Blonde_Alien
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14 Aug 2017, 1:13 am

Judging by what has been posted here so far, it looks like the U.S.A. is a better place to move in, asuming the Trump administration doesn't think I am too much of a burden to american taxpayers because I'm autistic and transgender. :roll:


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Chronos
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14 Aug 2017, 2:15 am

The media and protesters are giving more presence to these racist groups than they actually have.



0_equals_true
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14 Aug 2017, 3:21 pm

Chronos wrote:
The media and protesters are giving more presence to these racist groups than they actually have.


I would have to agree although it not so much one protest or counter protest, but more the regressives who have snubbed the liberals that pointed out the illiberality of their ideas, which has given legitimacy to extremists over recent years. Actually it is worse than snubbed, they have attempted to have them fired from their jobs and shunned, and used taboo as propaganda as a weapons. Just look at Evergreen College as an example. Considering how hard fought it was to remove segregation from education, these activist don't seem to act with any sense of irony, or respect for the principled leaders of the original civil rights movements.

it seems very a very popular fad to sew the seed of division, though misguided thinly veiled bigoted ideologies of intersectionality, with a flawed power model to boot.

Both trough some tacit support of extremist, some appeasing, and wishing for the opposition they hoped for, as is obvious due do their mischaracterization anyone the criticised them as fascist/racist/far right, and their inability to understand their own hypocrisy an bigotry.

The next person that calls someone who points out how regressive policy violates the very tenets of rights a fascist, should maybe tell use what their knowledge is of the history of fascism in the 20 and 21st century.

I can understand that people can be angry and frustrated, but that doesn't make them clued up or just.



The Cat Ghost
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15 Aug 2017, 8:54 am

My wife and I had a similar talk years back; she is American and I am Canadian. We were going to start a family and had to figure out where we were going to live. I'll spare you a lot of details but we decided to stay in Canada. One thing to consider is that immigration is VERY expensive. My wife's permanent resident application was approved a few days ago and we have our final interview in about 2 weeks where she will get her PR card and new SIN card. All said, this little adventure with the government has cost us over $6,000 CAD and has taken a year and a half to get through.

As a part of our application we've had to dig up details of our relationship from the very beginning and provide supporting documents such as text message history month to month over a period of two years, photos of us together along with descriptions of the date of the event and who was attending along with us, over a dozen letters of support from friends and family who attest to our relationship being genuine, letters and ultrasounds from our doctor confirming that my wife is pregnant, etc. It was a HUGE ordeal that took hundreds of hours of work to complete.

I'll go to bat for Canada a bit here... "Canada" is a huge country with a small population (less than the population of California). You can consider Canada as a bunch of different countries put together. You've got:

-The West, which has better weather than the rest of Canada, a very diverse population, but is quite expensive.
- Upper Canada, which is cold, dark, and beautiful but you really will only live there if you were born there.
- The prairies, which are probably a lot of fun if you are a farmer
- Eastern Canada, where most people end up (Ontario or Quebec- specifically Toronto or Montreal). I hated Toronto but I've only ever visited there and I lived in Montreal for 3 years and my social phobia didn't let me go outside because there are just too many people!
- Atlantic Canada. It's where I live. There isn't as much diversity here and the wages are pretty low compared to the rest of the country but in terms of quality of life, it ranks right up there with the west coast.

All I can really say about Canada in general is that if you're looking to escape violence and racial persecution, Canada is a better bet than America right now but Canada is not a perfect place to live. Oh! If you move to Canada, get a good parka for the winter. I have had lots of friends from Panama, Colombia, etc. and they are just not built to handle our winters.



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15 Aug 2017, 12:23 pm

Canadian taxes are mean.

Americans have the mortgage interest deduction and property tax deduction which can greatly reduce their taxes, Canadians don't.