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ASPartOfMe
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15 Aug 2017, 2:37 pm

Antifa and the Alt-Right, Growing in Opposition to One Another There is a cancer in the body politic. We must cut it out, or be destroyed.

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On Saturday, a crowd of alt-right white supremacists, neo-confederates, and Nazi sympathizers marched in Charlottesville, Va.; they were confronted by a large group of protesters including members of the Marxist Antifa — a group that has time and again plunged volatile situations into violence, from Sacramento to Berkeley. There’s still no certain knowledge of who began the violence, but before long, the sides had broken into the sort of brutal scrum that used to characterize Weimer-era Germany. The two sides then carried the red banner and the swastika; so did the combatants on Saturday.

The president of the United States promptly failed egregiously to condemn alt-right racism; instead, he opted for a milquetoast statement condemning “hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides.” The Left leapt into action, declaring Trump’s statement utterly insufficient — which, of course, it was. But they then went further, declaring that Antifa was entirely innocent, despite Antifa’s launching into violence against pro-Trump marchers in Seattle over the weekend, as they have in Sacramento and Berkeley; berating New York Times journalist Sheryl Gay Stolberg for having the temerity to report that “the hard left seemed as hate-filled as the alt-right”; and suggesting that all conservatives were, at root, sympathizers with the Nazi-friendly alt-right.

And so here we stand: On the one side, a racist, identity-politics Left dedicated to the proposition that white people are innate beneficiaries of privilege and therefore must be excised from political power; on the other side, a reactionary, racist, identity-politics alt-right dedicated to the proposition that white people are innate victims of the social-justice class and therefore must regain political power through race-group solidarity. None of this is new, of course. The Left has engaged in identity politics since the 1960s and engaged in heavy violence in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The white-supremacist movement has been with us since the founding of the republic. But both movements had been steadily shrinking until the last few years. Now they’re growing. And they’re largely growing in opposition to one another. In fact, the growth of each side reinforces the growth of the other: The mainstream Left, convinced that the enemies of social-justice warriors are all alt-right Nazis, winks and nods at left-wing violence; the right, convinced that its SJW enemies are focused on racial polarization, embraces the alt-right as a form of resistance. Antifa becomes merely a radical adjunct to traditional Democratic-party politics; the alt-right becomes merely a useful tool for scurrilous Republican politicians and media figures. Three factors led to this self-reinforcing growth loop.

Left-wing media — and “objective” media — saw an advantage in highlighting the antics of racists such as Richard Spencer and David Duke. Focusing on the racist alt-right allowed the media to draw the convenient conclusion that the alt-right was a growing force in Republican politics that had to be fought through support for Democrats. Meanwhile, the media cast a blind eye toward Antifa’s violent Weimer-style rioting in Sacramento and Berkeley. In response, right-wing media began tut-tutting the alt-right as victims of Antifa and focused exclusively on Antifa as a nefarious force; they also responded to the Left’s disgusting attempts to lump in the Right with the alt-right by accepting a broader, false definition of the alt-right that could include traditional conservatism. They even bought into the shameful rebranding of the alt-right as defenders of Western civilization by shills such as Milo Yiannopoulos. That rebranding provided a convenient way of fighting the Left: “If the Left is calling us alt-right, that’s just because they hate that we stand for Western civilization!”

Obama’s repeated references to American racism weren’t his only sin. He repeatedly shunned opportunities to tamp down leftist racial radicalism. He made excuses for riots in Ferguson and Baltimore. He used the shooting of Dallas police officers by a radical black activist as an opportunity to lecture Americans about the evils of racist policing. He knew that his political support came in large measure from SJWs, and he cultivated them. Meanwhile, on the right, Trump did the same. During the campaign, he ignored opportunity after opportunity to break with the alt-right. He refused to condemn the KKK on national television; he refused to condemn his supporters’ sending anti-Semitic messages to journalists; he hired as his campaign strategist Steve Bannon, a man who openly celebrated turning Breitbart into a “platform for the alt-right.” Trump saw the alt-right as convenient allies, his meme-making “deplorable” friends on the Internet. They reveled in both his unwillingness to condemn them and his willingness to share their work. And so here we are. The mainstream Left has been increasingly suckered into walking hand-in-hand with the SJWs while ignoring the most egregious activities of Antifa; the mainstream Right has been increasingly seduced into footsie with alt-right associates while feigning ignorance at the alt-right itself. That’s why Charlottesville matters: not only because we saw destruction and terror, but because if all Americans of good conscience won’t do some soul-searching and move to excise the evil in their midst, that evil will metastasize. There is a cancer in the body politic. We must cut it out, or be destroyed.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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15 Aug 2017, 4:27 pm

Brings to mind this:

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A similar cycle has played out at UC Berkeley. In February, masked antifascists broke store windows and hurled Molotov cocktails and rocks at police during a rally against the planned speech by Yiannopoulos. After the university canceled the speech out of what it called “concern for public safety,” white nationalists announced a “March on Berkeley” in support of “free speech.” At that rally, a 41-year-old man named Kyle Chapman, who was wearing a baseball helmet, ski goggles, shin guards, and a mask, smashed an antifa activist over the head with a wooden post. Suddenly, Trump supporters had a viral video of their own. A far-right crowdfunding site soon raised more than $80,000 for Chapman’s legal defense. (In January, the same site had offered a substantial reward for the identity of the antifascist who had punched Spencer.) A politicized fight culture is emerging, fueled by cheerleaders on both sides. As James Anderson, an editor at It’s Going Down, told Vice, “This s**t is fun.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ft/534192/
I wonder if a chunk of our society is now in a cycle which can not be stopped.

Quote:
What’s eroding in Portland is the quality Max Weber considered essential to a functioning state: a monopoly on legitimate violence. As members of a largely anarchist movement, antifascists don’t want the government to stop white supremacists from gathering. They want to do so themselves, rendering the government impotent.

Quote:
All of this fuels the fears of Trump supporters, who suspect that liberal bastions are refusing to protect their right to free speech.
...
In late June, James Buchal, the chair of the Multnomah County Republican Party, announced that it too would use militia members for security, because “volunteers don’t feel safe on the streets of Portland.”


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techstepgenr8tion
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15 Aug 2017, 4:35 pm

I really don't think we can count on politicians or news media for integrity, we have to at this point bring that to the table ourselves.


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15 Aug 2017, 4:42 pm

The real National Socialist (Nazi) party in Germany didn't arise out of nowhere. It was a reaction to the growing power of the International Socialist (Communist) party who wanted a communist takeover of Germany.

The old Nazis really did just about die out, but the Communists (now "antifa" guerrillas in the US) did not die out. The popularity (even the "coolness") of the antifa guerrillas, fed and encouraged by the mainstream left and the lying media, is now predictably generating an upswing in Nazi-like groups, exactly as it did in Europe in the early 20th century. Destroy the communist guerrillas, and the neo-Nazis will vanish very quickly, since they are almost entirely a reaction to the communist left.


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15 Aug 2017, 4:43 pm

Antifa isn't a cancer. It's chemotherapy.

Chemotherapy can be harsh. Sometimes you lose all of your hair, but it's better than dying of cancer.


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ASS-P
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15 Aug 2017, 4:57 pm

.

You start with some good points, then move towards seemingly encouragng, from a distance, violence (" destroy the guerrillas ") and boo-hoo weeping about those pooorr persecuted alt-righters
.Rarlier you said that leftover people shouldn't have counter-demonstrated in Charlottesville and that, anyway, the disputed statues should have been left up - even after a vote, IIRC, in Charlottsville called for removal of the statues. Why ?
..


,














ok"]The real National Socialist (Nazi) party in Germany didn't arise out of nowhere. It was a reaction to the growing power of the International Socialist (Communist) party who wanted a communist takeover of Germany.

The old Nazis really did just about die out, but the Communists (now "antifa" guerrillas in the US) did not die out. The popularity (even the "coolness") of the antifa guerrillas, fed and encouraged by the mainstream left and the lying media, is now predictably generating an upswing in Nazi-like groups, exactly as it did in Europe in the early 20th century. Destroy the communist guerrillas, and the neo-Nazis will vanish very quickly, since they are almost entirely a reaction to the communist left.[/quote]


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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15 Aug 2017, 5:00 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Antifa isn't a cancer. It's chemotherapy.
Chemotherapy can be harsh. Sometimes you lose all of your hair, but it's better than dying of cancer.

Quote:
30 August 2016 • 11:30pm
Patients should be warned about the dangers of chemotherapy after research showed that cancer drugs are killing up to 50 per cent of patients in some hospitals.
For the first time researchers looked at the numbers of cancer patients who died within 30 days of starting chemotherapy, which indicates that the medication is the cause of death, rather than the cancer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016 ... ing-drugs/

Then since you equate Antifa to chemotherapy you will agree that just like chemotherapy the antifa is toxic because it doesn't discriminate between good, healthy and bad, unhealthy;
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Chemotherapy is toxic for the body because it does not discriminate between healthy and cancerous cells.


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Last edited by kitesandtrainsandcats on 15 Aug 2017, 5:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

cyberdad
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15 Aug 2017, 5:02 pm

Darmok wrote:
The real National Socialist (Nazi) party in Germany didn't arise out of nowhere. It was a reaction to the growing power of the International Socialist (Communist) party who wanted a communist takeover of Germany.]

Not true. The rise in popularity of the Nazis was due to anger over the perception that economic demise of Germany resulting in unemployment sue to reparations paid for WWI. The Nazis conveniently blamed Jews for orchestrating the German recession to punish German people (even though it was entirely the megalomaniac Kaiser Wilhelm who laid the ground for what was to come)



DarthMetaKnight
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15 Aug 2017, 5:17 pm

Darmok wrote:
The real National Socialist (Nazi) party in Germany didn't arise out of nowhere. It was a reaction to the growing power of the International Socialist (Communist) party who wanted a communist takeover of Germany.


You are oversimplifying things. Go through all of the logical steps.

Was Nazism created as a buffer against socialism? Yes, but that's not the whole story.

Socialism became popular in Germany because Germany was suffering through capitalist brutality. Social anarchism was also popular in Germany at the time.

The Nazi Party was funded by German capitalists who wanted to exterminate all of the real socialists in Germany. They were trying to exterminate both communists and anarchists.

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The old Nazis really did just about die out, but the Communists (now "antifa" guerrillas in the US) did not die out.


The radical left did not die out because Nazism never fully died out.

Quote:
The popularity (even the "coolness") of the antifa guerrillas, fed and encouraged by the mainstream left and the lying media, is now predictably generating an upswing in Nazi-like groups, exactly as it did in Europe in the early 20th century.


Nope. Most of the people in the so-called "liberal media" think that Antifa are as bad as the Nazis. That's the lie they have been spewing for some time now. Their corporate puppeteers must be so proud.

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Destroy the communist guerrillas, and the neo-Nazis will vanish very quickly, since they are almost entirely a reaction to the communist left.


You have it around backwards. The radical left exists because the system is making people suffer, to the point where they can no longer contain their rage.


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15 Aug 2017, 6:10 pm

Antifa seems to make bigots more powerful. When you persecute people you empower there message.



ASPartOfMe
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15 Aug 2017, 6:20 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Antifa isn't a cancer. It's chemotherapy.

Chemotherapy can be harsh. Sometimes you lose all of your hair, but it's better than dying of cancer.


Antifa is like a new form of chemotherapy that not only kills innocent cells but metastasizes another cancer which is cool for the drug companies because they can make a profit off of a new wonder drug. Antifa is not unhappy at all somebody got killed, it was a free recruiting drive for them. The problem with a lot of these end justify the means groups is that they can never mentally accept winning they need an enemy, it is a never ending cycle.

[quote=Bottapanic"]Antifa seems to make bigots more powerful. When you persecute people you empower there message.[/quote]
Not only that the regressive left often brags how intellectually and culturally superior they are and talk about how their opponent needs to go or be forced to make way for the "enlightened" ones. This validates bigots and radicalizes others.


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15 Aug 2017, 9:34 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Antifa isn't a cancer. It's chemotherapy.

Chemotherapy can be harsh. Sometimes you lose all of your hair, but it's better than dying of cancer.


I wish there was an emoticon for clapping hands.


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techstepgenr8tion
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15 Aug 2017, 9:40 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Antifa isn't a cancer. It's chemotherapy.

Chemotherapy can be harsh. Sometimes you lose all of your hair, but it's better than dying of cancer.


I wish there was an emoticon for clapping hands.


And you'll eventually get the kinds of fascists that DMK's 'chemo' will dredge up - with their own antitode.

Suppose you can't fight the monsters without making em first. Not my kind of game, nor am I really sure I want much to do with the kind of world that a swarm of cliff-walking partisan lemmings are going to create.

We might eventually just have to make a death match state, city, or region, where idiots can go and take each other out of everyone else's misery. High walls, barbed wire, and a no-return policy should do the trick.


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15 Aug 2017, 9:51 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Antifa isn't a cancer. It's chemotherapy.

Chemotherapy can be harsh. Sometimes you lose all of your hair, but it's better than dying of cancer.


I wish there was an emoticon for clapping hands.


And you'll eventually get the kinds of fascists that DMK's 'chemo' will dredge up - with their own antitode.


What are you saying?

The left has to change its strategy in order to counter the alt-right. Thus, the left will be victorious ... for a while. Eventually, the right will come up with new strategies, forcing the left to concoct new strategies also. Is that what you are saying?

That's just the tide of history dude. The forces of oppression and liberation are locked in an endless struggle ... though the liberators tend to gain more in the grand scheme of things.


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techstepgenr8tion
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15 Aug 2017, 10:30 pm

There's only one way the left will be 'victorious' - get their factual arguments together, if a high-quality leftist argument is to be had, and ditch Antifa and immediately defund and deny support/validation to them or anyone like them who wants to make blood flow in the streets.

OTOH - if your tides of history require 'eggs to be cracked to make an omelette' - have fun with that, though better to put yourself out there as a foot-soldier for legal and/or physical reprisal rather than talking someone else into taking up that responsibility for you.

My own opinion - this Zoroastrian/Manichean good vs. evil other-ing thing has been a fog of cultural and moral retardation (I believe I'm using that term correctly here) on society at large for millenia and I'd rather have something to do with people growing out of the tribal shenanigans rather than indulging it, throwing down the pen, and picking up bullets or bombs. That's how you turn a 1st world country into a 3rd world sh--hole in relatively short order.


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16 Aug 2017, 12:03 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Antifa isn't a cancer. It's chemotherapy.

Chemotherapy can be harsh. Sometimes you lose all of your hair, but it's better than dying of cancer.


I wish there was an emoticon for clapping hands.


And you'll eventually get the kinds of fascists that DMK's 'chemo' will dredge up - with their own antitode.

Suppose you can't fight the monsters without making em first. Not my kind of game, nor am I really sure I want much to do with the kind of world that a swarm of cliff-walking partisan lemmings are going to create.

We might eventually just have to make a death match state, city, or region, where idiots can go and take each other out of everyone else's misery. High walls, barbed wire, and a no-return policy should do the trick.


I'm sure no one agrees entirely with Antifa's actions, but the fact is, they are still on our side.


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