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Drake
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17 Aug 2017, 12:03 pm

Until Charlottesville, I hadn't seen this argument before. I saw it elsewhere first, and then a similar one here on Wrong Planet today. Basically, the assertion is that centrism is flawed because centrists position themselves purposely in the centre of the left / right political spectrum. I have always thought centrists are just there because their beliefs put them there, and if the centre moved, they wouldn't move with it.

Anyway the argument goes that this incentivises extremists to to become more extreme, because this moves the centre, and the centrists will move with it, and thus move away from the side said extremists are opposing and towards them.

Does this type of Centrist actually exist? If you are one, I'd be interested to hear from you about why.



adifferentname
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17 Aug 2017, 12:54 pm

There's certainly an argument that centrists are plastic to their environment, but the reaction you're proposing is based on a flawed assumption. The more radical the extremists get (or extreme the radicals get), the more the centrists will likely oppose them.

The centrist viewpoint is founded on reason and pragmatism, not on moderation - although this is a prominent feature. Compromise is one of many options worth consideration, not the go-to solution.

You're not describing a centrist, you're describing some kind of near-impossible ideological moderate.



sly279
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17 Aug 2017, 1:25 pm

I call myself a centerist simple cause I do not agree 100% with either party and am therefor not welcome in either party.



Drake
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18 Aug 2017, 6:22 am

Thanks you two.



DarthMetaKnight
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18 Aug 2017, 7:40 am

sly279 wrote:
I call myself a centerist simple cause I do not agree 100% with either party and am therefor not welcome in either party.

Really?

I've never seen you criticise the political right.


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Aristophanes
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18 Aug 2017, 8:03 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I call myself a centerist simple cause I do not agree 100% with either party and am therefor not welcome in either party.

Really?

I've never seen you criticise the political right.

That's because people can claim they are whatever they want, their words and actions tell the real story.



adifferentname
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18 Aug 2017, 8:28 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I call myself a centerist simple cause I do not agree 100% with either party and am therefor not welcome in either party.

Really?

I've never seen you criticise the political right.


And you're omniscient, right?

:roll:



kraftiekortie
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18 Aug 2017, 8:41 am

I believe some centrists are consistently moderate.

There are others, though, who are "left" on some things, "right" on others, so they are, "on average," centrists.

I am one who has both moderately "left" and moderately "right" views.



adifferentname
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18 Aug 2017, 9:04 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe some centrists are consistently moderate.

There are others, though, who are "left" on some things, "right" on others, so they are, "on average," centrists.

I am one who has both moderately "left" and moderately "right" views.


There's an error in thinking that infers that "centrist" or "moderate" means someone who seeks compromise on every issue, as I alluded to earlier. Rather, they're people who judge the worth of arguments, as pertaining to individual issues, primarily on their merits. I say "primarily", because nobody is entirely immune to reactive bias.

I prefer to think of myself as "unaligned", in part because I reject the flawed dichotomy of "left" vs "right" and see it as a gross oversimplification, a shortcut to bigotry and as a fundamentally flawed yardstick to determine 'morality'. The same stupid shortcuts feed the theist vs atheist debate. One can be an atheist without being an anti-theist, and vice versa, but people are so fond of their tribes.

It's said that crowds are wise, but they're not especially smart.



AspieUtah
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18 Aug 2017, 9:21 am

President Clinton was a "triangulating centrist" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation_(politics) ), or claimed to be so, anyway.

I am a Jeffersonian constitutionalist because the Constitution for the United States of America defines many political and social constructs under which voters align themselves (or not). But, when it comes to political parties and their ideologies, I am reminded of Thomas Jefferson's writing that "I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in any thing else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all. […] I am neither federalist nor antifederalist; that I am of neither party, nor yet a trimmer between parties." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson (March 13, 1789).


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Drake
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18 Aug 2017, 9:23 am

It's good for giving someone a rough idea of where you stand, but if someone says they're centre left, that doesn't mean they're left leaning on every subject. You could get two people take a political test, get the exact same result, and not answer a single question the same.



kraftiekortie
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18 Aug 2017, 10:12 am

I believe a certain degree of "ability to compromise," based upon specific contexts, is almost essential in life. One has to be flexible when encountering some "truth" which is antithetical to the belief system which one has previously formulated, yet which seems to be, overall, most plausible.

However, it is also better to have definite and consistent beliefs, rather than have them vary according to some "tide" or other. It is better to be rock solid/malleable than to be chameleon-like.



RetroGamer87
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18 Aug 2017, 7:07 pm

adifferentname wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I call myself a centerist simple cause I do not agree 100% with either party and am therefor not welcome in either party.

Really?

I've never seen you criticise the political right.


And you're omniscient, right?

:roll:


Sly criticises the left as well.


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sly279
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19 Aug 2017, 12:09 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I call myself a centerist simple cause I do not agree 100% with either party and am therefor not welcome in either party.

Really?

I've never seen you criticise the political right.

In criticize them all the time it just doesn't fit your bias of me.
I'm pro education, welfar, universal healthcare care(eventually if done right), I'm mixed in abortion, I'm pro gay right, I support trans in most cases though I personally find myself uncomfortable dating one, however I'm strOngly pro 2nd amendment , bill of rights, constitutional, anti illegal immigration, and against democrats continued attempt to over tax us in my state. I'm also pro military as my uncles, grandfather and most my friends serve/served. Though I do think the current military spending needs audited and cut back. They have a lot of wasteful spending so do the federal agencies. Mean the FBI spent millions on making fan Star Trek films. Then there's the dhs spending money to train their agents to shoot old women, kids and pregnant women(aka desensitizing them, military don't even do that) meannwhile military is being forced to get ride of working equipment in favor of spending billions on new equipment which cant adequately replace the old stuff. Oh and let's not forgot The Who army's ucp camo disaster.

I'd love to dig into and cut that budget but atlast I'm not in the administration or dod.

So no neither side will have me.



sly279
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19 Aug 2017, 12:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe a certain degree of "ability to compromise," based upon specific contexts, is almost essential in life. One has to be flexible when encountering some "truth" which is antithetical to the belief system which one has previously formulated, yet which seems to be, overall, most plausible.

However, it is also better to have definite and consistent beliefs, rather than have them vary according to some "tide" or other. It is better to be rock solid/malleable than to be chameleon-like.


I willing to compromise one most things but the gun rights issue. We've already compromised many times on it and the left keeps asking for more and never giving anything in return. So actually we've never compromised we've just given into their past demands. We draw the line where it's at and no more . We'd like some back actually.

But that's life you can only give so much before you have to say no.



sly279
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19 Aug 2017, 12:16 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I call myself a centerist simple cause I do not agree 100% with either party and am therefor not welcome in either party.

Really?

I've never seen you criticise the political right.


And you're omniscient, right?

:roll:


Sly criticises the left as well.


Do you mean to say right?
I've gotten into disagreements here with the right leaning people a lot though they do tend to be less aggressive to me then some left leaning people here.
There's a lot less right leaning people on wrong planet which is probably while I'm not seen to criticize the right as much. There is simply far more left leaning posts here and therefor far more views I disagree with.