Christopher Columbus monument vandalized political reasons

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drwho222
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09 Oct 2017, 2:58 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Columbus was a scumbag. He didn't discover America. The Native Americans did.

Columbus started the Native American genocide. Why should we honor him with a statue?


Because he was a great explorer who achieved things most thought impossible in his day. But I'm sure you don't care about that, you see all things through modern PC s**t filled glasses.



drwho222
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09 Oct 2017, 3:09 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Christopher Columbus monument vandalized in Baltimore

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A monument in Baltimore to Christopher Columbus — believed to be the first one erected to the Italian explorer in America — was vandalized.

A video posted to YouTube on Monday by a user named “Popular Resistance” shows a man striking the base of the monument near Herring Run Park repeatedly with a sledgehammer. Another person holds a sign that reads: “Racism, tear it down.” Another sign is taped to the monument reading: “The future is racial and economic justice.”

The celebration of Columbus’ exploits in the Americas has long been criticized by those who feel the Italian explorer’s misdeeds are too often glossed over. Many associate Columbus, who is often falsely credited with “discovering” what is now the United States, with enslaving, brutalizing and killing the native people he encountered in his travels.

Columbus statues and monuments have been defaced and damaged over the years, as more people learn about Columbus’ deadly legacy.

“This is happening everywhere,” said Kevin Caira, president of the Sons of Italy’s Commission for Social Justice. Over the weekend, a Columbus statue in Boston was painted red and a protest was held at a statue in Detroit, he said.

In 2015, someone splashed red paint and planted a hatchet on the head of a bronze statue of Columbus in Detroit, according to the Detroit News.


There are a lot of good reasons to mock Trump but he was spot on with the slippery slope statement about the statues.


Columbus must be understood in terms of the standards of his own time, not ours. Much like Vlad the Impailer, whose actions made him a national hero by the standards of his time, place, and day. Columbus was a John Glenn of his day--a fearless explorer who went on an almost suicidal voyage given the technology and knowledge base of his time.



drwho222
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09 Oct 2017, 3:12 pm

Marknis wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
^The Natives were here first, but as far as any european discovery it was the Vikings who found Vinland...and that was before Columbus I am pretty sure.

Columbus day is a double insult to me....I am part Native American and of norse decent, so not only did he kill my ancestors but then he got credit for a discovery the Vikings made.


Leif Erikson beat Columbus by about 400 or so years. Communication with the natives wasn't very steady, though, and Vinland didn't last very long.

I have Cherokee in my ancestry myself.


Vineland didn't last long because the weapons of the Nordics were no better than those of the Natives.



cyberdad
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09 Oct 2017, 3:46 pm

drwho222 wrote:
Marknis wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
^The Natives were here first, but as far as any european discovery it was the Vikings who found Vinland...and that was before Columbus I am pretty sure.

Columbus day is a double insult to me....I am part Native American and of norse decent, so not only did he kill my ancestors but then he got credit for a discovery the Vikings made.


Leif Erikson beat Columbus by about 400 or so years. Communication with the natives wasn't very steady, though, and Vinland didn't last very long.

I have Cherokee in my ancestry myself.


Vineland didn't last long because the weapons of the Nordics were no better than those of the Natives.


I'm not sure weapons were the primary issue. The settlement might not have thrived because the colonists probably did not acclimatize in terms of maintaining crops and controlling disease. There's a number of stories like this in early Australia, Canada and North America..



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16 Oct 2017, 12:55 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Columbus was a scumbag. He didn't discover America. The Native Americans did.

Columbus started the Native American genocide. Why should we honor him with a statue?


He doesn't deserve a statue or a day.


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16 Oct 2017, 7:42 pm

I do believe Columbus opened the floodgates to the near-genocide of the Native American people, but vandalism- no matter what the motivation- is wrong. I believe statues etc. should be framed in a proper historical context.

There are several towns and a country named after Columbus. Renaming them all would be costly and confusing.


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17 Oct 2017, 9:37 am

Now that some states have banned Columbus Day, and Christopher Columbus statues are being removed, I have a compromise solution. Keep the day as a holiday, and replace the Culumbus statues with statues of Leif Erikson. -- Happy belated Leif Erikson Day!

Also, as an aside, the statues of Leif Erikson must not be ruined with wings or horns on the helmets, aas is the one of him on the Minnesota Capitol grounds.


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ASPartOfMe
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17 Oct 2017, 11:37 am

Fogman wrote:
Now that some states have banned Columbus Day, and Christopher Columbus statues are being removed, I have a compromise solution. Keep the day as a holiday, and replace the Culumbus statues with statues of Leif Erikson. -- Happy belated Leif Erikson Day!

Also, as an aside, the statues of Leif Erikson must not be ruined with wings or horns on the helmets, aas is the one of him on the Minnesota Capitol grounds.


Mr.Erickson lived before any possible racist, sexist, homophobic, ableist, non-binary phobic views he may have had could be preserved for 2010's SJW's to target.


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drwho222
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09 Nov 2017, 5:17 pm

If they are tearing down monuments to "racists" then how come Malcom X isnt up on the block?



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09 Nov 2017, 8:02 pm

In New Zealand, there was the same tendency when I was growing up to ascribe "discovery" to Europeans like Abel Tasman (sighted NZ in 1642) and James Cook much later (1769), (the Englishman James Cook was usually cited as the European discoverer of New Zealand and the Dutch Tasman ignored, a startling piece of revisionism to please the English colonists in New Zealand in the 19th century), and that myth is still heard occasionally now. Both these accounts completely ignored the real discoverers centuries before, who happened to be another colour. The Empire ambitions of the English and other relics of European colonisation in New Zealand tend to preserved only in museums now, (rightly so, as they are of historical interest) rather than as statues that continue to represent the colonialist myths and one-sided representations in public spaces.

For a long time there was another colonialist myth that the pre-European voyagers who came across the Pacific in canoes arrived here "accidentally" because the wind blew them here, which is now known to be completely false, though the accidental myth was used to embellish the European discovery narrative.

Columbus was financed to find riches for Spain, and the atrocities committed to secure those riches make very grisly reading, though they tend to have been concealed for a long time in the popular accounts and in what was taught to schoolchildren who believed the whitewashed versions they were told.

I am glad that New Zealand is now a more mature and inclusive country which now embraces the whole picture of our history, and sees the colonialist accounts as inherently biased toward European dominance.

Pioneer cultures generally tried to prioritise accounts that favoured and honoured European accounts as the only accounts of "history". South Africa was unusual in that two groups of Europeans fought with each other to each prioritise their dominance in the country both wanted for its riches, which resulted in a bloody war between them. It is a sad fact that the English invented concentration camps in the Boer War, though one little mentioned by the English, not surprisingly, even today. History is very revisionist, even now, though not as much as a century ago or even 50 years ago. The narratives of former times need constant reconsideration in less colonialist times such as ours. Greater knowledge, better education and sound research challenging the old narratives have made a huge difference in NZ, though there is still a way to go yet.