Nobel Peace Prize winner allows troops to behead children

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cyberdad
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09 Sep 2017, 1:29 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And seriously, I can't conceive of Obama - or any American President - purposely aiding monsters like ISIS.

A rather tired and worn conservative right wing tactic to smear Obama's reputation with fabricated conspiracy theories peddled by the likes of Bannon's Brietbart news.


Unfortunately, too many right wing Americans believe it's true. They're doubtlessly the same people who say: "I don't like Nazis, but..."

Those on the right will invoke Voltaire and constitutional freedom of speech to justify allowing Nazis to walk around saying how much they want to kill "untermenschen"



JohnPowell
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11 Sep 2017, 3:53 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I assumed this was about Obama and ISIS.


Obama's style is to rain fire from the sky, via drone, not decapitation. And it's ISIS who were his usual recipients of having fire rained from the sky on them.


Uh no, it was mostly innocent civilians, some even US civilians. He supported ISIS in Syria and Libya.


Actually, most of the people Obama supported in Syria tended to be Pro-Iran, not ISIS. Obama rained fire on Assad's and ISIS forces.


That's pure nonsense. Obama was supporting the 'moderate rebels' that were trying to remove Assad and who hate Iran. That's why ISIS were driving around in US sponsored Toyota trucks via the "non-lethal aid package". Iran, Russia and Hezbollah came in to fight the US's 'rebels'.


Last time I looked, Toyota was a Japanese, not American, company.
And while mistakes had probably been made searching for moderate Anti-Assad rebels, but the fact remains, American and American sponsored forces have been killing ISIS. Don't believe everything out of Trump's mouth.


They were made in America and given by America. They weren't 'mistakes' and there were no 'moderate rebels'. They killed some ISIS but were fighting Assad too who was fighting ISIS. The US wanted to support groups that are part of Al Qaeda and they did. Obama tried to get troops to fight with them against Assad. I didn't get it from Trump, it came out of leaked emails and peace activists who actually went to the fighting zones. The mainstream media didn't go near it and were getting most of their info from the 'rebels' and from a guy in his basement in Coventry in the UK.


Even if that's the case, the whole situation is such a cluster f*ck that it's impossible to pick good guys from bad guys, because almost everyone are bad guys. The best one can hope for is choosing the bad from the worse.
And seriously, I can't conceive of Obama - or any American President - purposely aiding monsters like ISIS.



Well the lesser evil was supporting Assad, who was fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda. Well that's down to you, it's true but you don't have to accept it.


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JohnPowell
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11 Sep 2017, 3:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And seriously, I can't conceive of Obama - or any American President - purposely aiding monsters like ISIS.

A rather tired and worn conservative right wing tactic to smear Obama's reputation with fabricated conspiracy theories peddled by the likes of Bannon's Brietbart news.


You are utterly clueless, this isn't about Obama personally. Cameron was doing the same and other Western leaders. Watch the 2 videos from the UN peace council, from people who've actually been to the war zones in Syria. The lamestream media wouldn't go near those zones and relied on news from the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights or whatever, a guy in his apartment in Coventry, England. And the White Helmets who are affiliates of Al Nusra/Al Qaeda. Take the time here and you might actually learn something for once.




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Kraichgauer
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11 Sep 2017, 7:32 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I assumed this was about Obama and ISIS.


Obama's style is to rain fire from the sky, via drone, not decapitation. And it's ISIS who were his usual recipients of having fire rained from the sky on them.


Uh no, it was mostly innocent civilians, some even US civilians. He supported ISIS in Syria and Libya.


Actually, most of the people Obama supported in Syria tended to be Pro-Iran, not ISIS. Obama rained fire on Assad's and ISIS forces.


That's pure nonsense. Obama was supporting the 'moderate rebels' that were trying to remove Assad and who hate Iran. That's why ISIS were driving around in US sponsored Toyota trucks via the "non-lethal aid package". Iran, Russia and Hezbollah came in to fight the US's 'rebels'.


Last time I looked, Toyota was a Japanese, not American, company.
And while mistakes had probably been made searching for moderate Anti-Assad rebels, but the fact remains, American and American sponsored forces have been killing ISIS. Don't believe everything out of Trump's mouth.


They were made in America and given by America. They weren't 'mistakes' and there were no 'moderate rebels'. They killed some ISIS but were fighting Assad too who was fighting ISIS. The US wanted to support groups that are part of Al Qaeda and they did. Obama tried to get troops to fight with them against Assad. I didn't get it from Trump, it came out of leaked emails and peace activists who actually went to the fighting zones. The mainstream media didn't go near it and were getting most of their info from the 'rebels' and from a guy in his basement in Coventry in the UK.


Even if that's the case, the whole situation is such a cluster f*ck that it's impossible to pick good guys from bad guys, because almost everyone are bad guys. The best one can hope for is choosing the bad from the worse.
And seriously, I can't conceive of Obama - or any American President - purposely aiding monsters like ISIS.



Well the lesser evil was supporting Assad, who was fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda. Well that's down to you, it's true but you don't have to accept it.


Even so, it would still be a falsehood to say that we never got around to killing ISIS fighters, and pushing their territory back.


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JohnPowell
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12 Sep 2017, 11:30 am

Well yeah, but that's just an excuse to stay in there and help the war industry. The US was fighting a war on 2 fronts.


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Kraichgauer
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12 Sep 2017, 2:08 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Well yeah, but that's just an excuse to stay in there and help the war industry. The US was fighting a war on 2 fronts.


Maybe, but I have to think Trump isn't the only American leader to want to kill ISIS.


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12 Sep 2017, 3:15 pm

He's the only candidate and recent leader that done something different in Syria. Bush1, B.Clinton, Bush2, Clinton, Obama or Sanders would all have helped the conflict drag on, leading to more and more deaths and the destruction of the country.


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Kraichgauer
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12 Sep 2017, 6:26 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
He's the only candidate and recent leader that done something different in Syria. Bush1, B.Clinton, Bush2, Clinton, Obama or Sanders would all have helped the conflict drag on, leading to more and more deaths and the destruction of the country.


I haven't seen him extract us from that Middle Eastern tar baby.


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13 Sep 2017, 5:49 pm

Syria has been saved.


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Kraichgauer
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13 Sep 2017, 6:23 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Syria has been saved.


Only because our allies in Iraq have beaten them repeatedly, and they (ISIS) are now losing ground.


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14 Sep 2017, 2:38 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Syria has been saved.


Only because our allies in Iraq have beaten them repeatedly, and they (ISIS) are now losing ground.


And because a change of policy by the US. If Clinton or Sanders had got in they would have removed Assad.


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Kraichgauer
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14 Sep 2017, 4:02 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Syria has been saved.


Only because our allies in Iraq have beaten them repeatedly, and they (ISIS) are now losing ground.


And because a change of policy by the US. If Clinton or Sanders had got in they would have removed Assad.


The problem isn't removing a homicidal dilettante like Assad so much, but with replacing him with someone who can protect and promote actual freedom.


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15 Sep 2017, 1:55 pm

For one, America has no right to do either. Secondly, you support far worse than him and thirdly you don't do it because you want people to be free.


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Kraichgauer
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15 Sep 2017, 4:59 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
For one, America has no right to do either. Secondly, you support far worse than him and thirdly you don't do it because you want people to be free.


No, those things you rattled off are policies of the United States government, not me. As a matter of fact, I do personally want people to be free.
As for removing Assad - no one seems to have had a problem when the US and it's allies had removed homicidal maniacs like Hitler and Mussolini. As I already said, Assad is a dilettante, but a homicidal one just the same. I can't believe the rest of the world would regret his removal.


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cyberdad
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15 Sep 2017, 8:40 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
As I already said, Assad is a dilettante, but a homicidal one just the same. I can't believe the rest of the world would regret his removal.


The US did do similar alliances with Chile's Augusto Pinochet and other south American dictators like Juan Peron and Alfredo Stroessner purely because they were anti-communist. Back in the day Soviet Russia and Red China were the ISIS of their time. These dictators used the opportunity of these temporary alliances with the US to murder many hundreds of thousands of (often poor) civilians using right wing death squads with implicit approval (and sometimes military support of the US) under the guise of labelling opposition as communists.

There is (therefore) a historic precendent



cyberdad
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15 Sep 2017, 8:42 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Syria has been saved.


Has nothing to do with a "change" in American foriegn policy. How are your buddies in HAMAS going?