AngelRho
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02 Oct 2017, 4:21 pm
envirozentinel
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04 Oct 2017, 2:52 am
AngelRho
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04 Oct 2017, 9:55 am
envirozentinel wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Michael829 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
The reality of God is not the issue. Nice deflection from the morality issue. Nice that I made you uncomfortable enough to try to deflect.
The issue is Christians following a genocidal son murdering God while thinking that vile demiurge to be good.
Your post made my point and I had no need of re-enforcing it my true statements.
Regards
DL
The issue is Christians following a genocidal son murdering God while thinking that vile demiurge to be good.
Your post made my point and I had no need of re-enforcing it my true statements.
Regards
DL
Evidence please. You haven't proven that God even IS genocidal. You haven't proven that God committed murder. All you've done is impose YOUR morality on God.
This has nothing to do with anything that God did. There's unequivocal evidence that the Bible attributes to God, some things that God wouldn't do.
Michael829 wrote:
The Book of Joshua says that God ordered and facilitated in the massacre of innocent Canaanite women & children. The Bible says that God tested Abraham to assure that he was willing to murder his son as proof of loyalty.
Where does Joshua say God ordered a massacre of innocent people?
Where in the Bible is Abraham told to murder anyone?
Where in the Bible is Abraham told to murder anyone as proof of loyalty?
Evidence, please.
Michael829 wrote:
The Bible, claiming to be the "Word of God", says that slave-owners have a right to kill their slaves.
Where?
Michael829 wrote:
None of that proves anything about God, but it says something about the veracity of the Bible, and the barbaric, authoritarian and genocidally-inclined men who wrote it.
Are you sure?
Michael829 wrote:
Does any of that sound like God?
Well, thanks for thoroughly confirming the OP's opinion of traditional authoritarian belief.
Michael829
Well, thanks for thoroughly confirming the OP's opinion of traditional authoritarian belief.
Michael829
I was responding to Gnostic. It’s not about confirming or denying anything. It’s about who God is. And I’m not attacking or defending anything from any emotional bias. I’m going by what Genesis reveals about God in the creation account, to wit: God created the heavens and the earth for His pleasure and His alone; He can destroy any part or even all of it at His choosing and needs no approval for it, certainly not from His creation.
Whether that makes God “good” or “evil” from man’s perspective is entirely a matter of subjective opinion. God never forced anyone to like Him. To love and obey God is a choice He leaves to us.
It should be clear what actions are considered good and loving, and somewhere in the Bible it says God is love. Which however doesn't accord with a lot of the other stuff apparently attributed to God.
As an animal lover am I supposed to approve their sacrifice as indicated in many places including the unfortunate ram which was sacrificed in place of Isaac because his dad simply had to find something to sacrifice. But true sacrifice is an attitude of the heart, not a physical thing.
Yeah, God is love. But God is lots of things. God is mercy. God is patience. God is justice. Patient, because He has always held out for sinners to turn back. His justice for the Canaanites was looooong in coming. Israel’s sin went on for many generations before He destroyed them as a nation. Judah went even longer because of the covenant God had with David, and at least they had a few good kings. And God has shown mercy to those asking for it—if God didn’t hold back punishment, the punishment He gave them was never what they deserved. There is always room for one last chance.
I understand where you’re coming from as an animal lover. But no one is superior to God, and God needs no approval. I don’t mean to be harsh, I’m just making a logical point. I think you’ll understand Jews no longer sacrifice animals because there is only one legal context for that making it impossible to offer animal sacrifices. But if you read the Bible, burnt offerings were in effect massive barbecues reserved for feeding the priests and celebrating a sort of communion between religious leaders and families. They are primarily an act of obedience, but it was never meant as a simple waste of meat. So, yes, you are right in that true sacrifice is from the heart. Physical sacrifice is merely an extension of that in response to God’s commands. For Christians, there is no longer a need for sacrifice because God’s promise symbolized by past sacrifices has already been fulfilled through Jesus.
Why do people get so hung up on Abraham and Isaac? Do people just not read the Bible? This is not a rant against you, because your point was about animal cruelty. It’s just this comes up a lot and I don’t understand why. God already promised Abraham his line would continue through Isaac. This tells us a few things about Abraham. He believed that God would either provide a substitute at the right time, OR if he went through with it, God would resurrect Isaac. This isn’t complicated. It also prefigures Christ and the resurrection.
But for the Israelites, it answers the important question of Abraham’s role as their father in faith, same goes for Christians. After all that God promised, Abraham displayed total faith in God by going the distance. And, of course, God shows up and provides a substitute, just as Abraham knew He would. Thus Abraham is WORTHY of his position in Hebrew veneration. THIS is how we know who God is and His plan for our people. Christians also receive the blessing through Jesus. But in the ancient world, all nations were to be blessed by Abraham’s faith by the role the Hebrew people played in the ancient world. Whether the Hebrews remained faithful is another matter, but surrounding nations did benefit socioeconomically from Israel for a long time. Not a bad legacy for a man willing to give up his heir for God, amiright?
I’ve never been one for animal rights advocacy personally. But Genesis does outline man’s role as steward of creation. Jewish identity requires only consuming certain meats and even details strict standards for preparing meat. One does not sin by only eating plants, however, and thus if consuming correct meat prepared correctly for the sake of holiness and obedience is too difficult, vegetarianism is perfectly acceptable. Protestant Christians aren’t particularly sensitive about it, but I know quite a few Catholics who have very strong feelings about killing animals, I believe extending from a deep respect for ALL life. If you’re concerned with Biblical relevancy for present-day understanding of animal treatment, you have nothing to worry about. When sacrifices were required, procedures for slaughter were remarkably humane for the time. No serrated knives, no points on knives that could enter the wound, no stabbing. One smooth, quick cut, drain the blood, begin processing the meat for the meal. Biblical instruction for sacrifices set a powerful standard for ancient times that modern day slaughterhouses can learn from.
What you should be more concerned with when it comes to animal rights is not what the Bible says. Someone who lives a scripturally consistent life will want to give animals humane treatment anyway. Animal mistreatment is extra-Biblical, so you want to go straight to the people who are doing this.
On a lighter note...
What’s the deal with animals being “unclean” anyway? For example, does God just hate owls? Or maybe it’s just God loves owls and wants to protect them from us. I mean, think like an ancient Hebrew. You know SOMEBODY was traveling through the desert, was short on food and saw a desert owl. He knows owls are forbidden, right? But, wait a minute, what about DESERT owls? Maybe God doesn’t want us eating owls, but it’s ok if we eat desert owls. Lemme pull out the scrolls...oh, crap, no desert owls, either.
So if it’s that God just loves owls, what happens when you die? You get to heaven and it’s just you and the owls. God says, yeah, you’ve kept all my commandments, you’ve been faithful. But I have to choose. It’s either you or the owls. So...I’m really sorry about this...
05 Oct 2017, 7:43 am
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05 Oct 2017, 1:19 pm
05 Oct 2017, 1:59 pm
AngelRho
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05 Oct 2017, 3:15 pm
