desiring religion, but turned off by various factors

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GnosticBishop
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10 Sep 2017, 5:40 pm

KaffyJane wrote:
I've recently been going to church.
But before i started going , i wrote down what I believed in and then researched where my beliefs fitted into religion .

I was able to cross off a few religions with ease , but finding the right branch of Christianity was a little more difficult .

It took me a while to 'come out' to my family , to say I wanted to go to church and how I felt God was saying to me to go to church.

I googled ' church near me ' in google maps and saw which ones were closer.
It took me several months to decide on a church and each time I looked , I was drawn to a particular church , which I took as a sign .

Even before I decided on a church I started reading the bible and reading plans on bible apps.

I believe in the bible and how most of the stories have some scientific backing and just have blind faith in the stories that have yet to have the scientific backing


Why did you choose a Christian denomination?

You are aware that Yahweh is a genocidal God. No?

What kind of moral teaching do you expect from a genocidal God?

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity? Unlike the homophobic and misogynous Christian Churches, they have a moral ideology.

Regards
DL



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10 Sep 2017, 7:31 pm

Claradoon wrote:
My position is that the building I pray in does not determine what I believe.

I pretty much agree with this. I am of the Christian faith (Protestant), and fairly religious----but, one of reasons I quit going to church, was because of the hypocrisy, backstabbing, competition, and gossiping, etc. I just didn't understand that behavior----people would attend church, and then be talking, in the parking lot, about what dress so-and-so was wearing; that's CRAZY, to me!! It seems alot of people go to church, because they feel it's their duty, or something----but, I feel that's the difference between "believing" and "following". I feel that "followers" are more apt, usually, it seems, to WANT to go to church.

I must admit, though, that, for the last couple of years, I've been wanting to try again----but, I just don't feel I have the what I call "brain space", right now. To me, trying to be what I feel is a "proper" Christian, is a big responsibility (well, dealing with the PEOPLE, at a church), and I just don't have room on my plate, right now, for it.





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AngelRho
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23 Sep 2017, 8:41 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
KaffyJane wrote:
I've recently been going to church.
But before i started going , i wrote down what I believed in and then researched where my beliefs fitted into religion .

I was able to cross off a few religions with ease , but finding the right branch of Christianity was a little more difficult .

It took me a while to 'come out' to my family , to say I wanted to go to church and how I felt God was saying to me to go to church.

I googled ' church near me ' in google maps and saw which ones were closer.
It took me several months to decide on a church and each time I looked , I was drawn to a particular church , which I took as a sign .

Even before I decided on a church I started reading the bible and reading plans on bible apps.

I believe in the bible and how most of the stories have some scientific backing and just have blind faith in the stories that have yet to have the scientific backing


Why did you choose a Christian denomination?

You are aware that Yahweh is a genocidal God. No?

What kind of moral teaching do you expect from a genocidal God?

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity? Unlike the homophobic and misogynous Christian Churches, they have a moral ideology.

Regards
DL

Genocidal God? So what? It's logically possible for a society to become depraved to the point that giving up depravity would itself destroy the society. They can reach a point, as frightening as it may sound to us in a post WW2 world, that they really aren't fit to live and pose an imminent threat to other nations. When you're dealing with "us or them" attitudes, your choices are understandably limited. It's not "cool" to suggest genocide as a viable option, but neither do we live in the ancient world nor do we understand what might justify wiping out an entire people group.

It's also logically possible that God's forknowledge of various peoples allowed Him to know that trying to redeem them would be pointless if they were given a choice. They would never willingly choose to abandon their evil practices, so genocide would be preferable and merciful as compared with lifelong slavery and abuse, not to mention the negative impact the slaves would have on their masters. Enslaved or conquered people have always impacted the societies that took them. With God returning the Israelites to Canaan, survivors would have a corrupting influence on the fledgling nation.

Using the Canaan conquest as an example, I have my doubts as to whether Yahweh really was genocidal. God told the Israelites that He would drive out the Canaanites ahead of the Israelites. That's not genocide. That's displacement. I imagine Assyria had an ugly refugee crisis on their hands back in the day, but at least those people witnessed God's displeasure and lived to see another day. The Wilderness era turned a ragtag group of slaves into a nation of warriors, a fact the Canaanite peoples MUST have known. I mean, after 40 years, SOMEONE had to have known what was coming. If I had to choose between move to Canada or die, what do YOU think I'd do? If nothing else, I can hope for a chance to make deals with the invading nation and maybe even become wealthy through trade between that nation and others like myself who've been displaced. If God is on their side, I'm going to examine my life to be sure I'm living according to God's will.



AngelRho
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23 Sep 2017, 9:03 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
Claradoon wrote:
My position is that the building I pray in does not determine what I believe.

I pretty much agree with this. I am of the Christian faith (Protestant), and fairly religious----but, one of reasons I quit going to church, was because of the hypocrisy, backstabbing, competition, and gossiping, etc. I just didn't understand that behavior----people would attend church, and then be talking, in the parking lot, about what dress so-and-so was wearing; that's CRAZY, to me!! It seems alot of people go to church, because they feel it's their duty, or something----but, I feel that's the difference between "believing" and "following". I feel that "followers" are more apt, usually, it seems, to WANT to go to church.

I must admit, though, that, for the last couple of years, I've been wanting to try again----but, I just don't feel I have the what I call "brain space", right now. To me, trying to be what I feel is a "proper" Christian, is a big responsibility (well, dealing with the PEOPLE, at a church), and I just don't have room on my plate, right now, for it.

I understand what you mean about church people. I'm on staff at my church in the area of worship ministry so...basically if I skip church my family goes hungry. :lol: But yes, I've seen and heard it all.

Church, no church--You have to do what you feel is best. My opinion is simply that we are ALL broken and flawed people and all equally deserving of God's wrath. Saved, unsaved, churchgoers or not. Our brokenness is what keeps even the redeemed falling back into sinful life patterns such as gossip and hypocrisy. I'm guilty of that gossip bit myself and once I became aware of what people think of as gossip, I began looking very closely at myself and guarding what I say. I still catch myself complaining about people, but I make every effort to not. I've gotten a lot better.

Christians are all works in progress. We can't help it, but God can. I would say get back into church so you don't have to worship alone (strength in numbers). Gossips and hypocrites (and all the other sinners) need our prayers, too.



Campin_Cat
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23 Sep 2017, 12:47 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Claradoon wrote:
My position is that the building I pray in does not determine what I believe.

I pretty much agree with this. I am of the Christian faith (Protestant), and fairly religious----but, one of reasons I quit going to church, was because of the hypocrisy, backstabbing, competition, and gossiping, etc. I just didn't understand that behavior----people would attend church, and then be talking, in the parking lot, about what dress so-and-so was wearing; that's CRAZY, to me!! It seems alot of people go to church, because they feel it's their duty, or something----but, I feel that's the difference between "believing" and "following". I feel that "followers" are more apt, usually, it seems, to WANT to go to church.

I must admit, though, that, for the last couple of years, I've been wanting to try again----but, I just don't feel I have the what I call "brain space", right now. To me, trying to be what I feel is a "proper" Christian, is a big responsibility (well, dealing with the PEOPLE, at a church), and I just don't have room on my plate, right now, for it.

Church, no church--You have to do what you feel is best. My opinion is simply that we are ALL broken and flawed people and all equally deserving of God's wrath. Saved, unsaved, churchgoers or not. Our brokenness is what keeps even the redeemed falling back into sinful life patterns such as gossip and hypocrisy.

Yep, I totally agree!!

AngelRho wrote:
I'm guilty of that gossip bit myself and once I became aware of what people think of as gossip, I began looking very closely at myself and guarding what I say. I still catch myself complaining about people, but I make every effort to not. I've gotten a lot better.

I would say get back into church so you don't have to worship alone (strength in numbers).

Yeah, I must say I've been guilty of it, myself (that's one of the reasons I try never to say "I'm a Christian", and always try to remember to say "I'm of the Christian faith", because I don't feel worthy of the "Christian" title, cuz I am aware [more than I'd like to admit] of how often I don't do things that are "Christian-like")----but, at least I wait 'til I'm outta the parking lot!! LOL

But, seriously, though..... I've done the exact same thing that YOU said----looked in the mirror----and, try always to do that.

I really don't mind worshiping alone, but I 'spect I'll be gettin'-back to church, here, d'rectly (cuz I really do miss it - it just really makes my whole week)----just as soon as I get a "proper" job, cuz that'll, pretty much, clear-off my entire plate (the bills / the worries, and so-forth); it's the very next thing, on my priority list.

P.S. It's always wonderful to see you over here!! I know you said you don't like posting in PPR, but.....





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I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
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anguslairdmcangus
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26 Sep 2017, 11:19 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I have a great desire for there to be a "heaven." I don't want to float in oblivion when I die.

But I just can't bring myself to believe in any god or spirit.


Have you ever looked into Taoism?

I am a pretty traditional Roman Catholic, but it was Taoism that "cured" me of my atheism and doubt. There are many similarities between the philosophies of Lao-Tze and Jesus of Nazareth.

The Kingdom of Heaven and the "Way" (or Tao) still sound awfully similar to me.

The objective beauty of the Traditional Latin Mass as a *pure sensory experience* is something that always makes me feel connected to the divine. It is truly perfect in its internal consistency.



GnosticBishop
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30 Sep 2017, 12:47 pm

AngelRho wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
KaffyJane wrote:
I've recently been going to church.
But before i started going , i wrote down what I believed in and then researched where my beliefs fitted into religion .

I was able to cross off a few religions with ease , but finding the right branch of Christianity was a little more difficult .

It took me a while to 'come out' to my family , to say I wanted to go to church and how I felt God was saying to me to go to church.

I googled ' church near me ' in google maps and saw which ones were closer.
It took me several months to decide on a church and each time I looked , I was drawn to a particular church , which I took as a sign .

Even before I decided on a church I started reading the bible and reading plans on bible apps.

I believe in the bible and how most of the stories have some scientific backing and just have blind faith in the stories that have yet to have the scientific backing


Why did you choose a Christian denomination?

You are aware that Yahweh is a genocidal God. No?

What kind of moral teaching do you expect from a genocidal God?

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity? Unlike the homophobic and misogynous Christian Churches, they have a moral ideology.

Regards
DL

Genocidal God? So what? It's logically possible for a society to become depraved to the point that giving up depravity would itself destroy the society. They can reach a point, as frightening as it may sound to us in a post WW2 world, that they really aren't fit to live and pose an imminent threat to other nations. When you're dealing with "us or them" attitudes, your choices are understandably limited. It's not "cool" to suggest genocide as a viable option, but neither do we live in the ancient world nor do we understand what might justify wiping out an entire people group.

It's also logically possible that God's forknowledge of various peoples allowed Him to know that trying to redeem them would be pointless if they were given a choice. They would never willingly choose to abandon their evil practices, so genocide would be preferable and merciful as compared with lifelong slavery and abuse, not to mention the negative impact the slaves would have on their masters. Enslaved or conquered people have always impacted the societies that took them. With God returning the Israelites to Canaan, survivors would have a corrupting influence on the fledgling nation.

Using the Canaan conquest as an example, I have my doubts as to whether Yahweh really was genocidal. God told the Israelites that He would drive out the Canaanites ahead of the Israelites. That's not genocide. That's displacement. I imagine Assyria had an ugly refugee crisis on their hands back in the day, but at least those people witnessed God's displeasure and lived to see another day. The Wilderness era turned a ragtag group of slaves into a nation of warriors, a fact the Canaanite peoples MUST have known. I mean, after 40 years, SOMEONE had to have known what was coming. If I had to choose between move to Canada or die, what do YOU think I'd do? If nothing else, I can hope for a chance to make deals with the invading nation and maybe even become wealthy through trade between that nation and others like myself who've been displaced. If God is on their side, I'm going to examine my life to be sure I'm living according to God's will.


To live the way a genocidal God wants you to, empowers people like Hitler.

Your main focus/justification fo God's genocide of mankind seems to be that God would not interfere with man's free choice to reject him, yet do not see God killing us as interfering in our free will choice to live.

You are not making a lot of sense my friend.

Genocide is always evil and only immoral Christian will try to justify God killing when he can just as easily cure.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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30 Sep 2017, 12:51 pm

AngelRho wrote:
[
Christians are all works in progress. We can't help it, but God can. I would say get back into church so you don't have to worship alone (strength in numbers). Gossips and hypocrites (and all the other sinners) need our prayers, too.



Why are you ignoring what Jesus said in terms of how to pray?

He specifically called for private praying and here you are promoting the opposite?

Explain please.

Regards
DL



AngelRho
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30 Sep 2017, 10:41 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
KaffyJane wrote:
I've recently been going to church.
But before i started going , i wrote down what I believed in and then researched where my beliefs fitted into religion .

I was able to cross off a few religions with ease , but finding the right branch of Christianity was a little more difficult .

It took me a while to 'come out' to my family , to say I wanted to go to church and how I felt God was saying to me to go to church.

I googled ' church near me ' in google maps and saw which ones were closer.
It took me several months to decide on a church and each time I looked , I was drawn to a particular church , which I took as a sign .

Even before I decided on a church I started reading the bible and reading plans on bible apps.

I believe in the bible and how most of the stories have some scientific backing and just have blind faith in the stories that have yet to have the scientific backing


Why did you choose a Christian denomination?

You are aware that Yahweh is a genocidal God. No?

What kind of moral teaching do you expect from a genocidal God?

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity? Unlike the homophobic and misogynous Christian Churches, they have a moral ideology.

Regards
DL

Genocidal God? So what? It's logically possible for a society to become depraved to the point that giving up depravity would itself destroy the society. They can reach a point, as frightening as it may sound to us in a post WW2 world, that they really aren't fit to live and pose an imminent threat to other nations. When you're dealing with "us or them" attitudes, your choices are understandably limited. It's not "cool" to suggest genocide as a viable option, but neither do we live in the ancient world nor do we understand what might justify wiping out an entire people group.

It's also logically possible that God's forknowledge of various peoples allowed Him to know that trying to redeem them would be pointless if they were given a choice. They would never willingly choose to abandon their evil practices, so genocide would be preferable and merciful as compared with lifelong slavery and abuse, not to mention the negative impact the slaves would have on their masters. Enslaved or conquered people have always impacted the societies that took them. With God returning the Israelites to Canaan, survivors would have a corrupting influence on the fledgling nation.

Using the Canaan conquest as an example, I have my doubts as to whether Yahweh really was genocidal. God told the Israelites that He would drive out the Canaanites ahead of the Israelites. That's not genocide. That's displacement. I imagine Assyria had an ugly refugee crisis on their hands back in the day, but at least those people witnessed God's displeasure and lived to see another day. The Wilderness era turned a ragtag group of slaves into a nation of warriors, a fact the Canaanite peoples MUST have known. I mean, after 40 years, SOMEONE had to have known what was coming. If I had to choose between move to Canada or die, what do YOU think I'd do? If nothing else, I can hope for a chance to make deals with the invading nation and maybe even become wealthy through trade between that nation and others like myself who've been displaced. If God is on their side, I'm going to examine my life to be sure I'm living according to God's will.


To live the way a genocidal God wants you to, empowers people like Hitler.

*yawn*. Non-sequitur.

GnosticBishop wrote:
Your main focus/justification fo God's genocide of mankind seems to be that God would not interfere with man's free choice to reject him, yet do not see God killing us as interfering in our free will choice to live.

Pure laziness. And uninteresting. I never said mankind was completely free. I don’t believe that God actually does resort to total genocide in the Bible. Try actually paying attention. God told the Israelites He’d drive the Canaanites before them, meaning the only people in their way would be the last few remaining holdouts.

It is logically possible for corruption of an entire people to be so pervasive that any positive change would make existence unlivable. When such a people pose a threat for a holy nation set aside for a specific purpose, God is well within His rights to exact justice on a sinful nation in favor of who He chooses. It’s God’s creation. He doesn’t require our understanding nor our approval to act.

And why jump to the assumption that God’s standard of goodness precludes destroying all or part of His creation? It’s His. He can do with it and with us whatever He decides is right. That doesn’t make God evil.

The “evil God” is yet again another unqualified assumption. You haven’t proven that God is evil. You’ve merely proven that you don’t like God. That’s bias. Your conclusions are not logically based.

GnosticBishop wrote:
You are not making a lot of sense my friend.

Again, you are making the assumption that displacement or extinction of evil persons is somehow a stain on God. You don’t know the mind of God. You weren’t there. Why impose a human standard of goodness on God? Why the need for so many false assumptions?

GnosticBishop wrote:
Genocide is always evil and only immoral Christian will try to justify God killing when he can just as easily cure.

Is it REALLY always evil? Or is it only your opinion that it’s evil? WHY is it evil? What makes it evil? How do you know the easy “cure” isn’t killing them? Again, more assumptions of something that must be proven. How can you be certain that the killing that was carried out wasn’t integral in shaping the world according to God’s ultimate plan? Do you know what that plan is?

I think at this point we can step away from the “genocidal God” argument. The Bible never indicates that God actually ever DID carry out genocide, but rather the Deluge seems to be a special incident that ended an ongoing cycle of destruction and creation (see Genesis 1:1-2).



GnosticBishop
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01 Oct 2017, 11:18 am

AngelRho wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
KaffyJane wrote:
I've recently been going to church.
But before i started going , i wrote down what I believed in and then researched where my beliefs fitted into religion .

I was able to cross off a few religions with ease , but finding the right branch of Christianity was a little more difficult .

It took me a while to 'come out' to my family , to say I wanted to go to church and how I felt God was saying to me to go to church.

I googled ' church near me ' in google maps and saw which ones were closer.
It took me several months to decide on a church and each time I looked , I was drawn to a particular church , which I took as a sign .

Even before I decided on a church I started reading the bible and reading plans on bible apps.

I believe in the bible and how most of the stories have some scientific backing and just have blind faith in the stories that have yet to have the scientific backing


Why did you choose a Christian denomination?

You are aware that Yahweh is a genocidal God. No?

What kind of moral teaching do you expect from a genocidal God?

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity? Unlike the homophobic and misogynous Christian Churches, they have a moral ideology.

Regards
DL

Genocidal God? So what? It's logically possible for a society to become depraved to the point that giving up depravity would itself destroy the society. They can reach a point, as frightening as it may sound to us in a post WW2 world, that they really aren't fit to live and pose an imminent threat to other nations. When you're dealing with "us or them" attitudes, your choices are understandably limited. It's not "cool" to suggest genocide as a viable option, but neither do we live in the ancient world nor do we understand what might justify wiping out an entire people group.

It's also logically possible that God's forknowledge of various peoples allowed Him to know that trying to redeem them would be pointless if they were given a choice. They would never willingly choose to abandon their evil practices, so genocide would be preferable and merciful as compared with lifelong slavery and abuse, not to mention the negative impact the slaves would have on their masters. Enslaved or conquered people have always impacted the societies that took them. With God returning the Israelites to Canaan, survivors would have a corrupting influence on the fledgling nation.

Using the Canaan conquest as an example, I have my doubts as to whether Yahweh really was genocidal. God told the Israelites that He would drive out the Canaanites ahead of the Israelites. That's not genocide. That's displacement. I imagine Assyria had an ugly refugee crisis on their hands back in the day, but at least those people witnessed God's displeasure and lived to see another day. The Wilderness era turned a ragtag group of slaves into a nation of warriors, a fact the Canaanite peoples MUST have known. I mean, after 40 years, SOMEONE had to have known what was coming. If I had to choose between move to Canada or die, what do YOU think I'd do? If nothing else, I can hope for a chance to make deals with the invading nation and maybe even become wealthy through trade between that nation and others like myself who've been displaced. If God is on their side, I'm going to examine my life to be sure I'm living according to God's will.


To live the way a genocidal God wants you to, empowers people like Hitler.

*yawn*. Non-sequitur.

GnosticBishop wrote:
Your main focus/justification fo God's genocide of mankind seems to be that God would not interfere with man's free choice to reject him, yet do not see God killing us as interfering in our free will choice to live.

Pure laziness. And uninteresting. I never said mankind was completely free. I don’t believe that God actually does resort to total genocide in the Bible. Try actually paying attention. God told the Israelites He’d drive the Canaanites before them, meaning the only people in their way would be the last few remaining holdouts.

It is logically possible for corruption of an entire people to be so pervasive that any positive change would make existence unlivable. When such a people pose a threat for a holy nation set aside for a specific purpose, God is well within His rights to exact justice on a sinful nation in favor of who He chooses. It’s God’s creation. He doesn’t require our understanding nor our approval to act.

And why jump to the assumption that God’s standard of goodness precludes destroying all or part of His creation? It’s His. He can do with it and with us whatever He decides is right. That doesn’t make God evil.

The “evil God” is yet again another unqualified assumption. You haven’t proven that God is evil. You’ve merely proven that you don’t like God. That’s bias. Your conclusions are not logically based.

GnosticBishop wrote:
You are not making a lot of sense my friend.

Again, you are making the assumption that displacement or extinction of evil persons is somehow a stain on God. You don’t know the mind of God. You weren’t there. Why impose a human standard of goodness on God? Why the need for so many false assumptions?

GnosticBishop wrote:
Genocide is always evil and only immoral Christian will try to justify God killing when he can just as easily cure.

Is it REALLY always evil? Or is it only your opinion that it’s evil? WHY is it evil? What makes it evil? How do you know the easy “cure” isn’t killing them? Again, more assumptions of something that must be proven. How can you be certain that the killing that was carried out wasn’t integral in shaping the world according to God’s ultimate plan? Do you know what that plan is?

I think at this point we can step away from the “genocidal God” argument. The Bible never indicates that God actually ever DID carry out genocide, but rather the Deluge seems to be a special incident that ended an ongoing cycle of destruction and creation (see Genesis 1:1-2).


I will just leave this as is as it shown the immorality of Christians quite nicely.

It shows that you prefer a God who kills when he could just as easily cure.

You show just how corrupted Christian morality is.

Regards
DL



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01 Oct 2017, 6:09 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
KaffyJane wrote:
I've recently been going to church.
But before i started going , i wrote down what I believed in and then researched where my beliefs fitted into religion .

I was able to cross off a few religions with ease , but finding the right branch of Christianity was a little more difficult .

It took me a while to 'come out' to my family , to say I wanted to go to church and how I felt God was saying to me to go to church.

I googled ' church near me ' in google maps and saw which ones were closer.
It took me several months to decide on a church and each time I looked , I was drawn to a particular church , which I took as a sign .

Even before I decided on a church I started reading the bible and reading plans on bible apps.

I believe in the bible and how most of the stories have some scientific backing and just have blind faith in the stories that have yet to have the scientific backing


Why did you choose a Christian denomination?

You are aware that Yahweh is a genocidal God. No?

What kind of moral teaching do you expect from a genocidal God?

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity? Unlike the homophobic and misogynous Christian Churches, they have a moral ideology.

Regards
DL

Genocidal God? So what? It's logically possible for a society to become depraved to the point that giving up depravity would itself destroy the society. They can reach a point, as frightening as it may sound to us in a post WW2 world, that they really aren't fit to live and pose an imminent threat to other nations. When you're dealing with "us or them" attitudes, your choices are understandably limited. It's not "cool" to suggest genocide as a viable option, but neither do we live in the ancient world nor do we understand what might justify wiping out an entire people group.

It's also logically possible that God's forknowledge of various peoples allowed Him to know that trying to redeem them would be pointless if they were given a choice. They would never willingly choose to abandon their evil practices, so genocide would be preferable and merciful as compared with lifelong slavery and abuse, not to mention the negative impact the slaves would have on their masters. Enslaved or conquered people have always impacted the societies that took them. With God returning the Israelites to Canaan, survivors would have a corrupting influence on the fledgling nation.

Using the Canaan conquest as an example, I have my doubts as to whether Yahweh really was genocidal. God told the Israelites that He would drive out the Canaanites ahead of the Israelites. That's not genocide. That's displacement. I imagine Assyria had an ugly refugee crisis on their hands back in the day, but at least those people witnessed God's displeasure and lived to see another day. The Wilderness era turned a ragtag group of slaves into a nation of warriors, a fact the Canaanite peoples MUST have known. I mean, after 40 years, SOMEONE had to have known what was coming. If I had to choose between move to Canada or die, what do YOU think I'd do? If nothing else, I can hope for a chance to make deals with the invading nation and maybe even become wealthy through trade between that nation and others like myself who've been displaced. If God is on their side, I'm going to examine my life to be sure I'm living according to God's will.


To live the way a genocidal God wants you to, empowers people like Hitler.

*yawn*. Non-sequitur.

GnosticBishop wrote:
Your main focus/justification fo God's genocide of mankind seems to be that God would not interfere with man's free choice to reject him, yet do not see God killing us as interfering in our free will choice to live.

Pure laziness. And uninteresting. I never said mankind was completely free. I don’t believe that God actually does resort to total genocide in the Bible. Try actually paying attention. God told the Israelites He’d drive the Canaanites before them, meaning the only people in their way would be the last few remaining holdouts.

It is logically possible for corruption of an entire people to be so pervasive that any positive change would make existence unlivable. When such a people pose a threat for a holy nation set aside for a specific purpose, God is well within His rights to exact justice on a sinful nation in favor of who He chooses. It’s God’s creation. He doesn’t require our understanding nor our approval to act.

And why jump to the assumption that God’s standard of goodness precludes destroying all or part of His creation? It’s His. He can do with it and with us whatever He decides is right. That doesn’t make God evil.

The “evil God” is yet again another unqualified assumption. You haven’t proven that God is evil. You’ve merely proven that you don’t like God. That’s bias. Your conclusions are not logically based.

GnosticBishop wrote:
You are not making a lot of sense my friend.

Again, you are making the assumption that displacement or extinction of evil persons is somehow a stain on God. You don’t know the mind of God. You weren’t there. Why impose a human standard of goodness on God? Why the need for so many false assumptions?

GnosticBishop wrote:
Genocide is always evil and only immoral Christian will try to justify God killing when he can just as easily cure.

Is it REALLY always evil? Or is it only your opinion that it’s evil? WHY is it evil? What makes it evil? How do you know the easy “cure” isn’t killing them? Again, more assumptions of something that must be proven. How can you be certain that the killing that was carried out wasn’t integral in shaping the world according to God’s ultimate plan? Do you know what that plan is?

I think at this point we can step away from the “genocidal God” argument. The Bible never indicates that God actually ever DID carry out genocide, but rather the Deluge seems to be a special incident that ended an ongoing cycle of destruction and creation (see Genesis 1:1-2).


I will just leave this as is as it shown the immorality of Christians quite nicely.

It shows that you prefer a God who kills when he could just as easily cure.

You show just how corrupted Christian morality is.

Regards
DL

You’re leaving it without addressing the logical faults in your argument? Why so many assumptions? I mean, if genocide really is God’s M.O., if it’s God’s S.O.P., why stop with the Canaanites? Why not have the Israelites invade Syria? Why not wipe out the Chaldeans while they were at it? And maybe the Persians after that? Why not wipe out ALL the Moabites on the way to the promised land? They had no shortage of enemies, of human blood to shed just for fun. Yet if you actually READ the Bible, that’s not what happened.

If you want me to accept the premise that God is genocidal, you’re going to have to prove that God is. Evidence, please.

On purely logical grounds, even if I WERE to accept the premise of God as genocidal, so what? The creation story of Genesis illustrates that the heavens and the earth were created by God for His pleasure. If God wants to destroy it by water, by fire, by plague, or by the divine laying of cable, what’s that to us? I have no problem accepting that in the whole of God’s universe I’m quite insignificant, imperfect and broken, and in need of God’s mercy and grace every day. I can accept that God could choose to wipe me out along with the rest of humanity and be grateful for each day I have to live that God withholds His wrath. LOGICALLY God can do whatever He wants. To me, what’s more impressive than God bringing destruction on people who deserve it is God allowing people to live who DON’T deserve to live.

And why assume you possess a higher moral ground? With God being who He is, one can reasonably conclude God’s judgments are perfect. Unless you can prove yourself to possess all of God’s divine attributes, you cannot claim to know better than God. If you could, then that would mean you ARE God. And if you are God, then you know what God knows and would have already made the decisions God made—ergo we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

Anyway...if you want me to believe anything else, you have a lot of questions to answer and a lot of evidence to find to back it up.



GnosticBishop
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02 Oct 2017, 7:20 am

The reality of God is not the issue. Nice deflection from the morality issue. Nice that I made you uncomfortable enough to try to deflect.

The issue is Christians following a genocidal son murdering God while thinking that vile demiurge to be good.

Your post made my point and I had no need of re-enforcing it my true statements.

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DL



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02 Oct 2017, 10:41 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
The reality of God is not the issue. Nice deflection from the morality issue. Nice that I made you uncomfortable enough to try to deflect.

The issue is Christians following a genocidal son murdering God while thinking that vile demiurge to be good.

Your post made my point and I had no need of re-enforcing it my true statements.

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DL

Evidence please. You haven't proven that God even IS genocidal. You haven't proven that God committed murder. All you've done is impose YOUR morality on God.



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02 Oct 2017, 10:50 am

AngelRho wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
The reality of God is not the issue. Nice deflection from the morality issue. Nice that I made you uncomfortable enough to try to deflect.

The issue is Christians following a genocidal son murdering God while thinking that vile demiurge to be good.

Your post made my point and I had no need of re-enforcing it my true statements.

Regards
DL

Evidence please. You haven't proven that God even IS genocidal. You haven't proven that God committed murder. All you've done is impose YOUR morality on God.


Only intellectual and moral dissonance will have one ignore that the bible shows Yahweh using genocide in Noah’s day.

I have no time for the brain dead.

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DL



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02 Oct 2017, 11:27 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
The reality of God is not the issue. Nice deflection from the morality issue. Nice that I made you uncomfortable enough to try to deflect.

The issue is Christians following a genocidal son murdering God while thinking that vile demiurge to be good.

Your post made my point and I had no need of re-enforcing it my true statements.

Regards
DL

Evidence please. You haven't proven that God even IS genocidal. You haven't proven that God committed murder. All you've done is impose YOUR morality on God.


Only intellectual and moral dissonance will have one ignore that the bible shows Yahweh using genocide in Noah’s day.

I have no time for the brain dead.

Regards
DL

DOES it show that as chronically genocidal? In order to assert “genocidal God” you have to show evidence of an ongoing pattern of behavior. You have presented no such evidence. Now you’re resorting to personal attacks.

See, this is exactly why I don’t post here much anymore. When someone knows they cannot evidence their flimsy claims, they assault the intellect, morality, and character of their opponent. Whether I’m “brain dead” or experiencing “dissonance” isn’t a point of the discussion. Your unsupported assertions of some “evil” God, however, ARE. I think you have some explaining to do, otherwise you’re just falling back on the usual round of non-sequiturs, circular reasoning, red herrings, and personal attacks.



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02 Oct 2017, 11:47 am