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ttt2727
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15 Sep 2017, 7:57 am

Hi all

i;ve been reading the forum the past week and have decided to finally post. Long story short. My boyfriend and I met last year and were doing long distance. I moved to be with him and test things out for 2 months. I became very very close with his family. During the two month period, I had my doubts and uncertainties. I expressed these to my best friend and my mom. A few days before I was set to visit my family in another country, he went through my phone and read all my messages. Another message he found was a message to my coach where I said I think he is a nice person, and would like to hang out as friends with him. My boyfriend took a picture of the message, and feels completely betrayed. We decided to go on a temporary break for the month that I am overseas. We have not spoken, unless I have reached out and apologized profusely, validating his feelings, and reassuring him at every level that I at no point had feelings for anyone else. In his mind, "I was close to cheating". I truly love him, and would never hurt him. It is clear to be he shows many many signs of AS - but has not been diagnosed. He has only been diagnosed with learning disabilities and severe ADHD as a child. His parents have said he is "so stupid" to let me go. He is 32 and still lives at home with his parents. The country where he lives is considered a 3rd world country - so I can see why it has gone undiagnosed....Do I continue to just give him space and time to process his hurt/betrayal? I usually have so much patience, but I feel as though he is punishing me. I asked if we are still together, and he said yes. I asked if he wants to permanently break up, and he said no...but he's not speaking to me or initiating contact unless I do... my close friends and family are telling me I am signing up for a difficult life with him, but I truly and deeply love him and was on my way to moving across the world to be with him etc.



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15 Sep 2017, 9:29 am

I am not sure this is the place to give relationship advise, but I would say one thing to you, don't bombard him and back him into a corner, he won't like it.


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AspieSingleDad
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15 Sep 2017, 5:23 pm

ttt2727 wrote:
Hi all

i;ve been reading the forum the past week and have decided to finally post. Long story short. My boyfriend and I met last year and were doing long distance. I moved to be with him and test things out for 2 months. I became very very close with his family. During the two month period, I had my doubts and uncertainties. I expressed these to my best friend and my mom. A few days before I was set to visit my family in another country, he went through my phone and read all my messages. Another message he found was a message to my coach where I said I think he is a nice person, and would like to hang out as friends with him. My boyfriend took a picture of the message, and feels completely betrayed. We decided to go on a temporary break for the month that I am overseas. We have not spoken, unless I have reached out and apologized profusely, validating his feelings, and reassuring him at every level that I at no point had feelings for anyone else. In his mind, "I was close to cheating". I truly love him, and would never hurt him. It is clear to be he shows many many signs of AS - but has not been diagnosed. He has only been diagnosed with learning disabilities and severe ADHD as a child. His parents have said he is "so stupid" to let me go. He is 32 and still lives at home with his parents. The country where he lives is considered a 3rd world country - so I can see why it has gone undiagnosed....Do I continue to just give him space and time to process his hurt/betrayal? I usually have so much patience, but I feel as though he is punishing me. I asked if we are still together, and he said yes. I asked if he wants to permanently break up, and he said no...but he's not speaking to me or initiating contact unless I do... my close friends and family are telling me I am signing up for a difficult life with him, but I truly and deeply love him and was on my way to moving across the world to be with him etc.


I think I can contribute some advice. I was married for about 5 years (my wife passed a few years ago), and I wasn't diagnosed at the time. So I guess those are my qualifications. Now assuming your boyfriend is ASD, it doesn't mean he thinks the same as me but he probably does. Sorry, this is probably going to be a lengthy post.

For starters, I don't think he should be looking at all of the messages on your phone. It's interesting that your focus is more on your temporary break up and you don't seem more upset about that. At least knowing he's looking at messages on your phone tells us he's unable to "read" you and know if you are telling the truth or not. That's not the same as your normal NT relationship with a man who always suspects his girlfriend is cheating (and frequently physically abuses her). This man literally cannot tell if you are telling the truth or not, so he was seeking hard evidence that you were being loyal to him.

I'm going to try to convey to you, as best I can, what he's likely going through. My goal isn't to make you feel bad for him or bend to his every whim, just to understand him. If he thinks like me, his inability to tell if you are telling the truth or not is extremely distressing to him. It basically means you have more power in the relationship than he does. Essentially it places you into the more adult role in the relationship and places him into a more child-like role.

So, when you are meeting with this coach because you are friends, he views this as you meeting a male without him being present, and he cannot rule out the possibility that you'll cheat on him. And if you do cheat on him, he's likely to have no ability to tell that you have. While the act of cheating on him would hurt him (as it would any man), the act of you lying about it and his inability to tell would probably be just about his worst fear. If he was lied to about it and believed it because he had no choice, and than later down the line he somehow found out (maybe you tell him in breaking up or something), he would feel incredible powerlessness, betrayal, and a child-like state of naivety.

Using myself as an example, I pride myself on being honest and I also pride myself on keeping secrets when people confide in me. Not many people actually DO confide in me which is a shame because I'm a good listener. So when they do so and they have a secret that perhaps they are ashamed of, or if revealed would cause issues with their family, I treat that information like a freakin' national secret. Anyway, I had this one experience so upsetting I don't know the exact details (I sorta blocked them out), but I can give the general info of what happened.

A friend confided in me about something that happened between her and a male friend. They weren't having a romantic relationship but they were very close. The male friend had betrayed her, and she was very upset about it. Basically she knew the male friend had betrayed her, but he didn't know she knew. So when she discussed this with me, I promised I wouldn't say anything. Perhaps a month later, my female friend makes up with her male friend and they discuss everything, including how she confided in me.

I'm not sure why they did it, but they decided to see if they could get me to reveal the information I promised not to reveal. My friend knew how important it was to me that I'd keep this secret, so I guess she wanted see if she could get me to reveal it. So basically they didn't have any sort of elaborate plan, they just visited me and she told me it was okay to tell her male friend what she'd told me. Figuring this was an easier way for her to reveal to her friend what she knew, I went ahead and told him.

Now just to be clear, it isn't the fact that I revealed the information to this guy that makes this such a big deal! He already knew, after all, because she had told him. So technically I didn't break my promise, especially considering she asked me to reveal it. However, to make matters worse, they didn't tell me that they were trying to get me to convey the "secret", they kept it between themselves. Later on, through a third party who knows my friend, I found out that they had just wanted to see if they could get me to reveal this "secret".

Well, a few hours later, as I thought things over at home, I basically had a full blown panic attack. I had trouble breathing, and I had chest pains. I even went to the hospital. Why? Because both my friend and her friend got me to do something I didn't want to do by manipulating me, and basically duping me; and there was NO WAY I could have known. I couldn't have picked up on the signals, I could only recognize them after somebody basically fed to me what happened. It made me feel powerless, like a mouse in a maze; you want to get me to do something, just put some cheese at the other end of the maze and I'll do your bidding.

Sorry for such a long post, but the point is, he can't tell if you are lying or not, and that puts him in a very vulnerable position. I'd suggest that you not meet male friends in the future without him being present unless he's comfortable with it. He could learn to trust you in time, so this might not be a permanent thing. Also, as far as not contacting you and basically shunning you, that is one of the things I do when I feel greatly betrayed by somebody (and it is by far my worst trait). It isn't that he doesn't care about you, it's just that he risks less if he ends the relationship than if he continues it and runs the risk of being made to look like a child.

Hope that helps (if you bother to read it all)!



ttt2727
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15 Sep 2017, 8:57 pm

Thanks so much for your help and advice - I read your entire post. I've been trying to give him space and time. But I am unsure of what to do. I sent him a long text and listed all the things I miss about him and how I love him and only him. His response was "really?" We spoke a bit after that and then I decided to try give him more time and space. I really love him.. not sure what to do



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15 Sep 2017, 10:04 pm

Did he seem at all interested in resuming a relationship with you when you talked?

One of the side effects of the spectrum can be paranoia which seems strange because you think schizophrenia when you think paranoia. But for those on the spectrum, taking the worst case scenario as the truth is a defense mechanism for being unable to determine if we are being lied to or not. So basically your boyfriend has taken the worst possible scenario out of you simply meeting a friend who's a male.

You might not be able to do much while you're away. In fact, he might be holding off on plans of his own when you get back home (perhaps resume the relationship or make the break permanent, hard to say). I guess what I'd suggest is that you try not to push him into making any decisions while you are away. Right now he could be worried about what you are doing while you are away, so he's feeling vulnerable. If I were you, I'd try to get him to agree to talk with you when you get back from your trip. That's not really a decision so much as giving him some space while giving yourself an opportunity to save the relationship.

Just a couple of things to think about. Because he's keeping his distance from you, and you are having to pursue him, he's gaining some of his power back in the relationship. But this isn't a power play. He's in no position to make a real power play. He's just trying to make you aware that if you cheat on him, he's not completely powerless (should he somehow find out).

The other thing is, if your relationship resumes, I hope you make it clear to him that he's not to go into your stuff and view your phone. You have a right to privacy. If we take you at face value, he basically read a message on your phone and then falsely accused you of almost cheating on him. Believe me, being with Asperger's is very very challenging, and I can see things from his perspective, but you're not the one at fault here.

I hope all goes well for you!



ttt2727
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16 Sep 2017, 12:51 am

Thank you! Yes. I already made it clear he cannot do that.. and thanks for saying that about paranoia... I actually noticed that he was that way about a few things - not just with me. He's checked his mom's phone in the past too.. and said something he thought about his best friend (which I said I disagreed with and thought he was being a little paranoid.)

When I asked him yesterday if we are still together, he said yes... so I am feeling he's just hurt, but I am feeling highly anxious as he's not initiating contact or calling. Yes. I've done most of the pursuing and I've assured him I would never ever cheat and that I love him and only him and I can work with him on how to trust me.



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17 Sep 2017, 10:43 pm

ttt2727 wrote:
Thank you! Yes. I already made it clear he cannot do that.. and thanks for saying that about paranoia... I actually noticed that he was that way about a few things - not just with me. He's checked his mom's phone in the past too.. and said something he thought about his best friend (which I said I disagreed with and thought he was being a little paranoid.)

When I asked him yesterday if we are still together, he said yes... so I am feeling he's just hurt, but I am feeling highly anxious as he's not initiating contact or calling. Yes. I've done most of the pursuing and I've assured him I would never ever cheat and that I love him and only him and I can work with him on how to trust me.


Sorry, didn't see that you replied until now.

So it sounds like he still thinks there's a relationship, that's good. Aspies don't like to talk on the phone. Since you're in kind of a rocky period of your relationship, it gives him less motive to talk on the phone. It also gives him the opportunity to wield power in the relationship.

How much longer until you get back and can see him in person?



ttt2727
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19 Sep 2017, 10:56 am

So why isn't he contacting me unless I initiate? Maybe he needs more space and time to process. I definitely feel punished and am trying not to.

My ticket is booked back for oct 2nd, but I am really reluctant/hesitant to go back at that date if we aren't really speaking Much. I don't have a support network there except for him and his family (who are amazing and adore me) I don't even know if he wants me to go back to be honest. It feels strange that we are still together (in his mind) but we aren't really texting. Yes, he didn't really initiate phone conversations either and I told him I prefer them and suggested he call whenever he was driving to and from work etc. so he then would call whenever in the car... I told him the other day I understand he's still hurt but I'd love it if he would call and he hasn't called once in 2 weeks. I don't know... as much as I love him.. this feels so difficult and like constant rejection. I'm trying to be patient, but I don't know....



Voxish
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19 Sep 2017, 11:26 am

ttt2727 wrote:
So why isn't he contacting me unless I initiate?


Becuause we don't do that usually, It is not how we are wired up


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19 Sep 2017, 4:12 pm

I think different people can have very different ideas about what's OK when it comes to hanging out with (assuming heterosexuality and monogamy) other members of the opposite sex. It might help to resolve the situation if you both make it clear to each other what you want in that respect. Clearly you didn't see anything dangerous or wrong in your behaviour, and clearly he did. I think it's a fundamental issue of compatibility and that it would be very risky to move towards tying the knot unless you can get on the same page on that. A 3rd-world background (quite possibly with traditional, strict values on fidelity in the broad sense of the word) and the way he's experienced his discovery that you're not quite like that (I guess it looks to him as if you've been talking about your reservations, and then approaching another man, behind his back) may well have made it rather difficult to resolve. I'm sorry you've been so unlucky.

Personally I strongly dislike the idea of partners snooping on each others' messages, but from his perspective, he may feel justified on the grounds that he's "caught you cheating." I'm sure you never intended to cheat, but it could be hard to reassure him of that.

I don't know what's behind his apparent stand-offishness with you. There might be something in the idea that it's a way of emaciating you in order to get more power in the relationship, but equally it could just be that he doesn't readily approach people, or that he feels very wounded, scared and angry, or maybe he's aware of how possessive his behaviour might look and doesn't want to make it worse by appearing to stalk you.

I don't see much value in seeing it as a particular problem of ASD. One Aspie might have a perfectionist view of fidelity and honesty, another might be completely oblivious to their partner doing all kinds of dangerous things that a neurotypical would sense. A third might have a good sense of balance. In the end, whoever you are, I think it comes down to working out what the compatibility issues are and either coming to a realistic deal or moving on.

Pondering your problem kept reminding me that I once told my ASD diagnostician that I though it normal for a (sustainable) couple to be more honest with each other than with anybody else, and she said she thought it was more the other way round. I still don't get that. Was she right? If so, is there a significant AS-NT divide on this? If so it might explain why you were discussing your reservations with others rather than with him etc., though maybe I've just read too much into what you've put.



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19 Sep 2017, 5:36 pm

I can understand your concern. We are also assuming this guy is an Aspie, so I hope you’re confident with your assessment. It also concerns me that you two have only been together for a couple of months.

Setting that aside, and assuming he’s an Aspie, hopefully I can put the phone thing into perspective. I have a 9 year old son who I adore. He’ll go on weekend trips with his aunt and uncle to car shows and I’ll miss him while he’s away. Even still, I don’t call him because I’m not good at carrying personal conversations on the phone. Sometimes he’ll miss me and call me which is fine because he’ll carry the conversation. So the 9 year old child is carrying the conversation with the 40 year old man.

Aspies generally dislike lying because we are bad at it and because we usually have trouble discerning lies from the truth ourselves. So if he says he considers the relationship active, he probably does.

I guess you need to answer some questions for yourself:

Can this guy fulfill your emotional needs as an NT woman?
Do you want a man who has trouble with social skills?
Is he worth the risk of traveling back to see if the relationship will succeed?

Only you can answer these questions. I just hope I put things into perspective a bit.



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19 Sep 2017, 6:00 pm

AspieSingleDad wrote:
I guess you need to answer some questions for yourself:

Can this guy fulfill your emotional needs as an NT woman?
Do you want a man who has trouble with social skills?
Is he worth the risk of traveling back to see if the relationship will succeed?


I second this.
My dad probably has ASD (but ignores it or is in denial) and my parents' relationship really suffered from it, and of course the whole family. My mom may have ASD to some extent too. But yeah she felt unfulfilled as well as invaded (not sure if it's the right word) because of this child-like behaviour, it's some kind of all or nothing, white or black behaviour. She eventually cheated on him (maybe to some extent cuz' she's not good at saying no) and things got really difficult at home.
Hopefully your guy gets diagnosed and learns as much as possible on his condition.

AspieSingleDad wrote:
I'm going to try to convey to you, as best I can, what he's likely going through. My goal isn't to make you feel bad for him or bend to his every whim, just to understand him. If he thinks like me, his inability to tell if you are telling the truth or not is extremely distressing to him. It basically means you have more power in the relationship than he does. Essentially it places you into the more adult role in the relationship and places him into a more child-like role.

[...]

Sorry for such a long post, but the point is, he can't tell if you are lying or not, and that puts him in a very vulnerable position. I'd suggest that you not meet male friends in the future without him being present unless he's comfortable with it. He could learn to trust you in time, so this might not be a permanent thing. Also, as far as not contacting you and basically shunning you, that is one of the things I do when I feel greatly betrayed by somebody (and it is by far my worst trait). It isn't that he doesn't care about you, it's just that he risks less if he ends the relationship than if he continues it and runs the risk of being made to look like a child.

Hope that helps (if you bother to read it all)!


Very interesting read AspieSingleDad, straight from the horse's mouth, I mean, the aspie's mouth :wink: . I mean, not all aspies have such a clear understanding of their peculiarities. And while not news to me, this totally looks like my dad : For years I thought he had BPD but eventually realised a few months ago that this is probably ASD. It pretty much sums up all those difficult years with my dad freaking alone at home as soon as my mom was 2 minutes late.

I hope I'm not breaking any rule by asking this, but you seem to have a pretty solid vision of your aspie peculiarities, so if you could check out my thread "Understanding someone with ASD and alexithymia ?" in the "social skills and making friends" forum (sorry, as a new user I can't post URL), you could be of great help.



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19 Sep 2017, 9:10 pm

I'm not going to give relationship advice but just wanted to share some thoughts on communication with ASD people. I hate talking on the phone. I never answer the home phone and it goes to an answer machine so I can be forewarned and have time to work through the message and mentally prepare myself to return the call.
My son has ASD too. He lives in Japan. We get one email a month, on the first day of the month. Nothing varies this. Even if we email him with a question, we will not receive a reply until the first day of the next month. He refuses to skype and his phone has data only so nobody can call him. It's just how he is. It doesn't mean he doesn't care about us. He just has his own way of doing things.
Finding acceptance of our quirks can be hard for people. Too hard for many.
You say you get on well with his family. Could you not find a way to talk to them? They know him best. Maybe they can help explain his views on talking on the phone etc.
Keep in mind that the lack of initiating phone calls may have nothing to do with you, it may be that he struggles with it and struggles with it with everybody.


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19 Sep 2017, 9:41 pm

So I thought about suggesting you contact his family as well since you have a good relationship with them. However, I purposely refrained from suggesting it. Remember my example about my friend and her guy friend talking together about me and getting me to do something I didn't want to do? Also, remember what I said about you having more of an adult role and him feeling more child-like in the conversation? Talking to his mom about him (as an example) could be interpreted as both of those things. And he's read his mom's messages.....

I'll say this, it's an option if you know that he won't find out. But by going behind his back like that is going to be interpreted the same as cheating on him. Remember, his worst fear about cheating on him is not the *act* of cheating, it's that he feels vulnerable and incapable of finding out. Same thing with talking to his family behind his back. It's not quite as bad as cheating on him, but it still brings his worst fears to bare. He's going to be upset because of his inability to pick up those types of things (assuming he finds out).

If I had a girlfriend and I was in a similar situation where there was a fight and I was limiting communication to show how angry and upset I was (not necessarily why he's not communicating), and my girlfriend decided to talk behind my back with family members, I'd consider breaking up with her. And if I did decide to break up with her, it'd be permanent.

Yeah, I don't think you should communicate with family members. Now, if you are already in communication with them and he knows about it.....ask him if you can talk with family members....ask him if its okay if you discuss your relationship...if he says no, drop it like you'd drop a bat out of hell.



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20 Sep 2017, 1:10 am

As an Aspie, I appreciate it when people are honest and direct with me. I tell my husband, if there is a problem, you have to talk to me about it. No subtle hints or suggestions, I take everything at face value. And I find it extremely difficult to lie. If someone asks me if I'm OK with something and I'm not, then I will um and ahhh for a bit and try to think of a diplomatic way to say that I disagree.

I find it very difficult to start conversations when I have been emotionally upset by someone. I also have a low confidence which means I do not expect others to want to talk to me. So if I have had an argument with someone, I might want to talk to them, but not know how to start or what to say, and I might not pick up the phone because I think that they will not want to talk to me. The simple solution that I would like to happen in my case would be for the other person to pick up the phone and tell me directly what is going on in their head, because I cannot possibly work it out. And for them to ask me straightforward questions which I can answer yes or no or ummmmm... And for them to believe my answers.

But I am not your boyfriend, and so I cannot tell whether this approach would work for him or not. It is up to you as the one who knows him best to say whether you think this pattern fits with his behaviour so far. But my best advice would be to just talk to him about your concerns. But I would give the same advice for anyone in a relationship, ASD or NT.


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ttt2727
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20 Sep 2017, 10:14 am

So we are only speaking if I initiate... I'm just so confused. I'm getting very mixed messages.

If he wanted to be with me, why can't we communicate like we normally did ? He never had a problem on the phone and texting me before all of this. I said to him today " I adore you and I don't want to fight and I want you to trust me and for us to have the best relationship possible/ever."

His response "I don't like to fight either"
I asked him if he agrees to have the best possible relationship and his response was "what kind of best relationship?" I asked him to please explain because I didn't really understand his question, but he didn't... I said that maybe I rushed things between us and we can go slowly and I don't want to put pressure on him. His response: did you go see a psychologist? I said no.. I've just done a lot of thinking. Please help, I'm so lost.. I just don't understand and am not getting any straight answers. I'm meant to go back there in 12 days, and I just don't know what to do. I love this man deeply...