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Trump is Trying to Shut Down the Internet

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Sweetleaf
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17 Sep 2017, 6:16 pm

Raptor wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Here is an idea quit being so toxic, might make you feel better.

You might call it being toxic, others might call it pointing out people's BS.

I wonder if anyone else sees the irony in you trying to shame me into silence....


Trying to shame people into silence is not uncommon here.
I've been called "toxic" a few times and take it as a compliment, given the accusers. In fact, I end my rebuttal with something like "Yours truly, The Toxin". It could be considered a taunt, and maybe it is a little, but to me it's me telling them that their attempt to silence me aint workin'.
Same for being called a troll or a bully, too.


Suggesting someone be less toxic is trying to 'silence' them...that's odd.

Also how is it pointing out peoples bullsh*t to come into a thread criticizing Trump...and essentially post 'but the left/hillary did this or that.' as if it justifies any and every wrong committed on the right? That doesn't challenge any of the criticisms towards trump....


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17 Sep 2017, 6:29 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Suggesting someone be less toxic is trying to 'silence' them...that's odd.

Saying someone who has a different point of view and expresses that view is being "toxic" is the issue. When describing the expression of an alternative view in pejorative terms you are trying to stigmatise the expressing of that view, ergo trying to prevent it in the future.



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17 Sep 2017, 6:47 pm

Chichikov wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
You get all your news from Fox, Breitbart, and all those other "reputable" news sources, don't you? Otherwise, you'd know Trump has been getting loans from Russian oligarchs through Deutsche Bank (because no one else will lend money to a deadbeat like him), and has in turn laundered money for them. Trump's man, Paul Manafort, had been Putin's American fixer in Ukraine, while General Flynn had also been an unregistered agent for the Kremlin. Putin has a huge network of cyber trolls working to undermine the democracy of several countries, including the US. Donny Jr had met with a Kremlin connected lawyer who promised to dish dirt on Clinton. Where there's smoke, there's fire. I aint the one wrong here.

Why would I get my news from those places? I'm in the UK, I mainly care about UK news and from less biased resources. It's funny you (rightly) attack news orgs like Fox and Breitbart yet you defend cnn despite numerous exposes where it's proven they've made news up to suit their agenda.

That's all anyone needs to know about you really.

As for the things you mentioned I see you're expanding the issue from the Russia including the American election to Trump having any relation with Russia. Strawman argument.


As I've stated already, CNN had admitted a mistake with an overzealous employee, which is to their credit. Otherwise, CNN has a pretty sturdy reputation for sticking to the facts.
My naming off of Trump's Russian connections is to demonstrate that he and his people have a preexisting and secret relationship with Russia that has put them at Russia's beck-and-call.
Okay, you're a brit, but that doesn't mean your opinions on the subject are free from bias. If anything, it means you either are sympathetic to the populist right (such as Brexit in your country, and all the anti-immigrant bigotry that had led up to it), or you haven't really researched this story by any real extent.


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Sweetleaf
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17 Sep 2017, 7:01 pm

Chichikov wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Suggesting someone be less toxic is trying to 'silence' them...that's odd.

Saying someone who has a different point of view and expresses that view is being "toxic" is the issue. When describing the expression of an alternative view in pejorative terms you are trying to stigmatise the expressing of that view, ergo trying to prevent it in the future.


It wasn't about your 'different' point of view....rather the fact that you came into a thread criticizing action Trump wants to take in regards to the internet, to come and point fingers at the left rather than contribute to the discussion at hand.

But let me get this straight, if you post a criticism about something a politician on the left does or wants to do and I respond with 'like when the right did this, or that' rather than actually addressing the criticisms put forward and why I disagree...then you wouldn't think I'm being a little toxic?


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17 Sep 2017, 7:52 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
It wasn't about your 'different' point of view....rather the fact that you came into a thread criticizing action Trump wants to take in regards to the internet, to come and point fingers at the left rather than contribute to the discussion at hand.

Maybe you just didn't get the point. There's a psychological trait that the OP regularly demonstrates on this forum, and that is the phenomenon where people accuse others of things they are guilty of themselves. You can look it up if you want, it's a thing. His comment at the start of the thread is simply another example of it, accusing the right-wing of something he well knows that it is actually the left that is guilty of. He sees this as a fault of the left and it bothers him, so he thinks that if it bothers him he can just make the same accusation and it will bother others (although traditionally people do this when they are in a position to punish others for it, and by punishing others for things they do themselves they are subconsciously attacking their own guilt). I was simply dipping into a large bag of examples that show it is the left that tries to silence speech, and I could probably post examples all day and not be finished. All the OP had was words he thinks are true simply because he types them, I had specific examples.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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17 Sep 2017, 8:33 pm

Chichikov wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
It wasn't about your 'different' point of view....rather the fact that you came into a thread criticizing action Trump wants to take in regards to the internet, to come and point fingers at the left rather than contribute to the discussion at hand.

Maybe you just didn't get the point. There's a psychological trait that the OP regularly demonstrates on this forum, and that is the phenomenon where people accuse others of things they are guilty of themselves. You can look it up if you want, it's a thing. His comment at the start of the thread is simply another example of it, accusing the right-wing of something he well knows that it is actually the left that is guilty of. He sees this as a fault of the left and it bothers him, so he thinks that if it bothers him he can just make the same accusation and it will bother others (although traditionally people do this when they are in a position to punish others for it, and by punishing others for things they do themselves they are subconsciously attacking their own guilt). I was simply dipping into a large bag of examples that show it is the left that tries to silence speech, and I could probably post examples all day and not be finished. All the OP had was words he thinks are true simply because he types them, I had specific examples.


Actually, I'm not sure it is that deep and complex, to me it looks like simple Machiavellian-ism, The end (getting attention) justifies the means (posting sensationalized and distorted fake news).


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17 Sep 2017, 9:42 pm

Chichikov wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
I saw this coming. Conservatives hate the internet because it exposes people to differing opinions. :wink:

Like when Trump got Amazon to delete one star reviews of his book.

Edit - no, wait, that was Hillary Clinton.


Clinton IS a conservative, so that merely confirms what Darth said.



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17 Sep 2017, 10:05 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It hasn't been long enough. The Watergate investigation had dragged on and on. Mueller is compelling Donny Jr to talk to him, as well as Kushner, and little Flynn.

LOL ok :D


And I'm sure Nixon's supporters had chuckled over investigations into Watergate, too.

You're equating this with Watergate purely on time. Watergate had lots of suspicious things that needed investigating and unravelling, lots of evidence that needed to be tied to the guilty, motives and sub-plots unravelled until eventually Nixon had to resign.

With this Russia thing you have CNN saying there is collusion but there is no evidence and CNN admit in private the story is "mostly BS". In the time since the scandal was suggested there has been no movement at all, nothing has happened, there is no evidence, no nothing. I think you're grasping at straws by equating the two. Don't worry though, by playing the long game you'll never have to admit you're wrong.


You get all your news from Fox, Breitbart, and all those other "reputable" news sources, don't you? Otherwise, you'd know Trump has been getting loans from Russian oligarchs through Deutsche Bank (because no one else will lend money to a deadbeat like him), and has in turn laundered money for them. Trump's man, Paul Manafort, had been Putin's American fixer in Ukraine, while General Flynn had also been an unregistered agent for the Kremlin. Putin has a huge network of cyber trolls working to undermine the democracy of several countries, including the US. Donny Jr had met with a Kremlin connected lawyer who promised to dish dirt on Clinton. Where there's smoke, there's fire. I aint the one wrong here.


You shoud say if he watched CNN, he'd know the stuff you laid out that particular way. CNN panders to those who hate Trump and love to hear the worst news about him. They operate through over exaggeration sensationalism and just plan BS.

Anything less at this point and they would be accused by their fan base of of going soft. So they have to maintain that high level of hype. It's not as much about delivering news as it is about providing entertainment.

A lot of people don't turn to actual news sources because they don't consider them entertaining enough. They don't supply enough intrigue, innuendo and sensationalism.



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17 Sep 2017, 10:12 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It hasn't been long enough. The Watergate investigation had dragged on and on. Mueller is compelling Donny Jr to talk to him, as well as Kushner, and little Flynn.

LOL ok :D


And I'm sure Nixon's supporters had chuckled over investigations into Watergate, too.

You're equating this with Watergate purely on time. Watergate had lots of suspicious things that needed investigating and unravelling, lots of evidence that needed to be tied to the guilty, motives and sub-plots unravelled until eventually Nixon had to resign.

With this Russia thing you have CNN saying there is collusion but there is no evidence and CNN admit in private the story is "mostly BS". In the time since the scandal was suggested there has been no movement at all, nothing has happened, there is no evidence, no nothing. I think you're grasping at straws by equating the two. Don't worry though, by playing the long game you'll never have to admit you're wrong.


You get all your news from Fox, Breitbart, and all those other "reputable" news sources, don't you? Otherwise, you'd know Trump has been getting loans from Russian oligarchs through Deutsche Bank (because no one else will lend money to a deadbeat like him), and has in turn laundered money for them. Trump's man, Paul Manafort, had been Putin's American fixer in Ukraine, while General Flynn had also been an unregistered agent for the Kremlin. Putin has a huge network of cyber trolls working to undermine the democracy of several countries, including the US. Donny Jr had met with a Kremlin connected lawyer who promised to dish dirt on Clinton. Where there's smoke, there's fire. I aint the one wrong here.


You shoud say if he watched CNN, he'd know the stuff you laid out that particular way. CNN panders to those who hate Trump and love to hear the worst news about him. They operate through over exaggeration sensationalism and just plan BS.

Anything less at this point and they would be accused by their fan base of of going soft. So they have to maintain that high level of hype. It's not as much about delivering news as it is about providing entertainment.

A lot of people don't turn to actual news sources because they don't consider them entertaining enough. They don't supply enough intrigue, innuendo and sensationalism.


I would consider CNN to be far more reliable than Fox, Infowars, or Breitbart.


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EzraS
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17 Sep 2017, 10:28 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It hasn't been long enough. The Watergate investigation had dragged on and on. Mueller is compelling Donny Jr to talk to him, as well as Kushner, and little Flynn.

LOL ok :D


And I'm sure Nixon's supporters had chuckled over investigations into Watergate, too.

You're equating this with Watergate purely on time. Watergate had lots of suspicious things that needed investigating and unravelling, lots of evidence that needed to be tied to the guilty, motives and sub-plots unravelled until eventually Nixon had to resign.

With this Russia thing you have CNN saying there is collusion but there is no evidence and CNN admit in private the story is "mostly BS". In the time since the scandal was suggested there has been no movement at all, nothing has happened, there is no evidence, no nothing. I think you're grasping at straws by equating the two. Don't worry though, by playing the long game you'll never have to admit you're wrong.


You get all your news from Fox, Breitbart, and all those other "reputable" news sources, don't you? Otherwise, you'd know Trump has been getting loans from Russian oligarchs through Deutsche Bank (because no one else will lend money to a deadbeat like him), and has in turn laundered money for them. Trump's man, Paul Manafort, had been Putin's American fixer in Ukraine, while General Flynn had also been an unregistered agent for the Kremlin. Putin has a huge network of cyber trolls working to undermine the democracy of several countries, including the US. Donny Jr had met with a Kremlin connected lawyer who promised to dish dirt on Clinton. Where there's smoke, there's fire. I aint the one wrong here.


You shoud say if he watched CNN, he'd know the stuff you laid out that particular way. CNN panders to those who hate Trump and love to hear the worst news about him. They operate through over exaggeration sensationalism and just plan BS.

Anything less at this point and they would be accused by their fan base of of going soft. So they have to maintain that high level of hype. It's not as much about delivering news as it is about providing entertainment.

A lot of people don't turn to actual news sources because they don't consider them entertaining enough. They don't supply enough intrigue, innuendo and sensationalism.


I would consider CNN to be far more reliable than Fox, Infowars, or Breitbart.


You're comparing garbage to garbage.



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17 Sep 2017, 10:39 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I would consider CNN to be far more reliable than Fox, Infowars, or Breitbart.


You're comparing garbage to garbage.


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17 Sep 2017, 10:55 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Here is an idea quit being so toxic, might make you feel better.

You might call it being toxic, others might call it pointing out people's BS.

I wonder if anyone else sees the irony in you trying to shame me into silence....


Trying to shame people into silence is not uncommon here.
I've been called "toxic" a few times and take it as a compliment, given the accusers. In fact, I end my rebuttal with something like "Yours truly, The Toxin". It could be considered a taunt, and maybe it is a little, but to me it's me telling them that their attempt to silence me aint workin'.
Same for being called a troll or a bully, too.


Suggesting someone be less toxic is trying to 'silence' them...that's odd.

Also how is it pointing out peoples bullsh*t to come into a thread criticizing Trump...and essentially post 'but the left/hillary did this or that.' as if it justifies any and every wrong committed on the right? That doesn't challenge any of the criticisms towards trump....

The notion that someone on a message board is "toxic" is laughable to me. All it does to me is make me want to be more "toxic".


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17 Sep 2017, 11:35 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It hasn't been long enough. The Watergate investigation had dragged on and on. Mueller is compelling Donny Jr to talk to him, as well as Kushner, and little Flynn.

LOL ok :D


And I'm sure Nixon's supporters had chuckled over investigations into Watergate, too.

You're equating this with Watergate purely on time. Watergate had lots of suspicious things that needed investigating and unravelling, lots of evidence that needed to be tied to the guilty, motives and sub-plots unravelled until eventually Nixon had to resign.

With this Russia thing you have CNN saying there is collusion but there is no evidence and CNN admit in private the story is "mostly BS". In the time since the scandal was suggested there has been no movement at all, nothing has happened, there is no evidence, no nothing. I think you're grasping at straws by equating the two. Don't worry though, by playing the long game you'll never have to admit you're wrong.


You get all your news from Fox, Breitbart, and all those other "reputable" news sources, don't you? Otherwise, you'd know Trump has been getting loans from Russian oligarchs through Deutsche Bank (because no one else will lend money to a deadbeat like him), and has in turn laundered money for them. Trump's man, Paul Manafort, had been Putin's American fixer in Ukraine, while General Flynn had also been an unregistered agent for the Kremlin. Putin has a huge network of cyber trolls working to undermine the democracy of several countries, including the US. Donny Jr had met with a Kremlin connected lawyer who promised to dish dirt on Clinton. Where there's smoke, there's fire. I aint the one wrong here.


You shoud say if he watched CNN, he'd know the stuff you laid out that particular way. CNN panders to those who hate Trump and love to hear the worst news about him. They operate through over exaggeration sensationalism and just plan BS.

Anything less at this point and they would be accused by their fan base of of going soft. So they have to maintain that high level of hype. It's not as much about delivering news as it is about providing entertainment.

A lot of people don't turn to actual news sources because they don't consider them entertaining enough. They don't supply enough intrigue, innuendo and sensationalism.


I would consider CNN to be far more reliable than Fox, Infowars, or Breitbart.


You're comparing garbage to garbage.


It's a stretch to compare that bag-of-wing nuts to CNN. And CNN became "fake news" only because the Dear Leader declared it to be.


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SH90
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17 Sep 2017, 11:46 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
It's a stretch to compare that bag-of-wing nuts to CNN. And CNN became "fake news" only because the Dear Leader declared it to be.


CNN is a bag of wing nuts, which used to be known as Communists News Network... But I digress, the extreme on either side of the political poll is both nuts. Unfortunately, CNN showcases the left extremist and this sites community seems to have swung so far towards the left spouting out conspiracy after conspiracy it's ridiculous.



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17 Sep 2017, 11:59 pm

SH90 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It's a stretch to compare that bag-of-wing nuts to CNN. And CNN became "fake news" only because the Dear Leader declared it to be.


CNN is a bag of wing nuts, which used to be known as Communists News Network... But I digress, the extreme on either side of the political poll is both nuts. Unfortunately, CNN showcases the left extremist and this sites community seems to have swung so far towards the left spouting out conspiracy after conspiracy.


Do you know that because you've watched CNN, or because you've been told that?
I regularly watch CNN, and I can attest to the fact that they're for the most part middle-of-the-road, or slightly left of center.
How are they the Communist News Network? Because they refuse to accept that Trump was right about there being moral equivalency between the Alt Right Nazis and the counter protesters at Charlottesville? Or that they know that Trump's insistence that there were "good people" at the Unite the Right march was unmitigated horsesh*t?


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18 Sep 2017, 12:11 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Do you know that because you've watched CNN, or because you've been told that?
I regularly watch CNN, and I can attest to the fact that they're for the most part middle-of-the-road, or slightly left of center.
How are they the Communist News Network? Because they refuse to accept that Trump was right about there being moral equivalency between the Alt Right Nazis and the counter protesters at Charlottesville? Or that they know that Trump's insistence that there were "good people" at the Unite the Right march was unmitigated horsesh*t?


I watch CNN from time to time, mostly when I visit my grandma (who speaks very little English) or any random coffee shop/store across the country. My grandmother prefers CNN, because she buys into the whole anti-Trump is a racist crap... The Communist News Networks reference has been around long before President Trump decided to run for office... It's more common among former military, a good portion of my client base.

I dislike CNN, because they can't get their facts straight (sometimes, they don't have any) or give it to me without their opinion shoved down my throat.