Im looking for other Christians??

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Well, for a start we believe that you don't need to do good works on earth to get into heaven, we believe that grace and salvation is granted to you through Baptism. We believe that it is God that does the work, not us, as we are sinful beings and we can't earn God's favor in our sinful state. "By divine grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone." So basically we can't save ourselves.

We believe in both Law and Gospel, and that we should see both as necessary things. Lutherans hold true to what the Bible says, and we believe it is God's word and it is without mistakes. We also believe in using the true body and blood of Christ.

There is a lot more than that, but I don't know much yet! Forgive me if I said anything wrong- I'm sure other people here can correct me . I am still learning, but those seem like the main differences between Lutheranism and other denominations. So Lutherans are still Christians, but we just have different views on certain things.

Kraichauer is a Lutheran, too.

I'm not a religious person--but I respect religion as something which keeps many people afloat, and away from despair.

I heard . It is pretty cool that there are other Lutherans here!

I am one who believes that good earthly works should be rewarded. I believe this provides people with incentive--and perhaps even a reason to live.

How does everyone feel about Calvinism? Whose theology revolves around Predestination?

It's interesting discussing different theologies.

Why not? Just because God can see into the future, doesn't mean we still don't have a CHOICE, in what we do!! It's not like His seeing into the future, DIRECTS our choice----if, for no other reason, than because we don't know what He sees. To ME, it's similar to when a human, who knows us really well, can predict, for instance, the next thing we're gonna do, in a situation.


Again, just because He knows what we're gonna do, doesn't mean He MAKES us do anything (thus, we don't have a CHOICE)----it's just that He knows our hearts.

I hear ya----that's why I don't fight so fiercely on the gun threads anymore (I'm FOR guns, if you don't know), because the antis don't listen. If I feel someone is actually considering ALL angles of an issue (THIS one, included), I'll go a couple rounds, with 'em----but then, if it seems to get to the point of "You either agree with me, or you're WRONG" ("you're either with me, or agin me"), I just leave that part of the thread, with them, there. If they think I've discontinued the conversation with 'em, because I couldn't deny whatever they said, let them----IMO, that's just their ego guiding them----I'LL know the truth (and, anybody with even half-a-brain will, as well)! ! LOL

WOO-HOO----that's BEYOND COOL!!

Don't ever, like, "apologize" for your religion----or, for ANYTHING, really, in which you believe.


Actually, IMO, that's really not that different from other denominations----or, at least, the ones to which I've been most-exposed (I grew-up as Southern Baptist [yep, that's right, if you don't know, I'm a card-carrying hillbilly LOL], Baptist, and Methodist). The DIFFERENCE, IMO, is in the INTERPRETATION of the Bible.

There are some people (like, some Fundies) who, no matter WHAT the preacher tells them, they think God was telling us to be good to each other, cuz that's how to get "Brownie Points", from Him----and, they are more followers of "The Law" (OT), and not also the Gospels (NT); and, like you said, it's very important to give consideration / followship (not "fEllowship), to BOTH.

Nice! Yep, Southern Baptist here, but I teach at a Catholic school. I consider myself Christian first, then Southern Baptist.

We Baptists tend to take a very naive approach to theology. Many of us are locked into that do this/don’t do that way of thinking, but honestly the Bible alone presents a beautiful theology. We can be very ritualistic. Not like Catholics, but just in the way we feel obligated to go to church twice a week and be nice the rest of the time because God might be looking. The OT and NT were never about that. The OT provided a framework for holiness for the ancient Israelites, no more and no less. They understood the laws of Noah to be sufficient for righteousness without the need for conversion. God was free for all people. Over time, however, Hebrew society and religious leaders lost sight of that. The NT sets the record straight. We accept that naively because we have no need to be concerned over things like hell, and that’s why you don’t really find many of us who care to go in depth. We know what God means to us and that’s enough.

Catholics, on the other hand, do place a heavy emphasis on works in terms of salvation. I strongly oppose Mariology, the dogmas of transubstantiation and immaculate conception among others, and I worry that the Catholic Church is inadvertently misleading parishioners.

While Baptists tend to accept the Bible and most church leaders at face value, Baptist theology is not exactly permanent. There are those of us like myself who enjoy reading, learning, and discussing. Baptists of today probably resemble those pre-Civil War more than post-Civil War, and we’ll look a lot different 50 years from now.

There is a trend towards Calvinism as of late. I disagree with Calvinism, but Baptist churches are autonomous and can teach what they like. WBC is a well-known example of an independent baptist church that is a bit off the beaten path with other Baptists and as such doesn’t belong with any large association or convention (larger para-church organizations of churches that agree to a few basic, common tenets). They are heavily Calvinist, but it seems to me that being hate-filled and so preoccupied with God’s wrath would put them at odds with Calvin’s teachings.

But whatever. While I wouldn’t suggest going that route, I would love to see more Baptist congregations throw down on social justice issues and politics. If the Bible teaches us nothing else, you get the recurring theme of when God’s people refuse to stand up for what is right and bring justice, God will raise up evil people to do it for us. So no, I do not believe in a passive approach to living out one’s faith.

In Lutheranism, while it's believed good works aren't done to earn salvation, rather those who are in God's grace will naturally do good works for our fellow human beings in order to reciprocate God's love for us. Or to quote Christ: "You will know a tree by it's fruit." Contrary to popular belief, Lutherans don't discount good works, but reject the notion one has to do them in order to earn grace - - a thing which Christ had accomplished for us already.
While predestination is within Lutheran theology, it's hardly the central doctrine. Rather, the feeling is, as grace is entirely in God's hands, we believe God ultimately had chosen us before the beginning of time. We don't pretend to understand why we are elected to salvation while others are seemingly not, as Calvinism attempts to explain. We also believe in a predestination to grace, but don't believe in double predestination in which God purposely chooses some for damnation. Calvinism teaches irresistible grace (or "once saved always saved"), where as we Lutherans believe even the elect can fall from grace, such as Judas.

Salvation entirely through grace, earned for us by Christ's death and resurrection.
A predestination to grace, but not a predestination to damnation.
The Triune nature of God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three separate entities, yet one.
God delivers salvation to individuals by the means of grace - that is, the written and spoken word, as well as the sacraments (we have just two - baptism and communion) which we take as physical manifestations of the word.
We believe in the Christ's physical presence in the sacrament of communion, though we don't believe the bread and wine become the body and blood as Catholicism does.
While we have professional clergy who undergo rigorous education of at least six years, we also believe in the Priesthood of All believers - that is, any true believer can preach or administer the sacraments as can the clergy, who are equal in all ways to the laity other than being called to the ministry.
We believe all true believers are saints, rather than specific individuals.
We do not have any millennialism theology, taking the book of Revelations to be a history of the 1st century church told in apocryphal language (Luther himself personally doubted if Revelations was even divinely inspired, as did Calvin).
Lutheranism tends to look on things such as creationism and homosexuality differently from one Lutheran body to another (the Missouri Synod takes a more conservative stance on such issues - which I disagree with - whereas the Evangelical Lutheran Church In America are much more liberal about such matters).
I've probably left stuff out, but that's what my memory could dredge up at the spur of the moment.

Thank you !

Don't ever, like, "apologize" for your religion----or, for ANYTHING, really, in which you believe.

Got it . Just afraid I'm going to get my head ripped off here in this forum! These discussions can sometimes get nasty!

Ah, so you ARE familiar with "us"! ! LOL Yeah, they keep us in the dark, over here, and feed us..... Well, you know----they treat us like mushrooms!! LOL

@AngelRho: I AGREE with pretty much everything you said----especially, the part about Calvinism!!

Sorry, but it DOES most certainly direct our choice and here's why: If God created the universe, in the Big Bang, then God exists outside of time, since Einstein proved with General Relativity that time is a dimension of the material universe.

If God exists OUTSIDE of time, then every instant that ever WAS, IS, or WILL BE all came into being in that Big Bang - in other words, the universe is like a giant snow globe, where everything is occurring all at once. All of our decisions from the beginning of the universe, until the end of it were already made in that fraction of a second it took for the universe to BANG into existence. Each moment, each individual decision, already frozen in place, in the expanding balloon of the universe. That's how God sees it, from the outside, all at once, already done. Past, Present, Future - all one.

Everything you will ever do, was done BEFORE you were born. Each second of your life is a single frame of a movie, and your consciousness is the light bulb in the projector, that only shines through one frame at a time, creating the illusion of movement - but the ending of the movie has already been written, acted and filmed. You can't change it. Free Will is a hallucination of The Matrix.




That just doesn't make sense. If every decision, thought, or action has already occurred, then God DID make you do EVERYTHING, simply by creating the universe. You never had a choice about anything, and your "heart" is not the actor who creates events, but the re-actor who merely responds to events with subjective impressions. We are but observers in God's art gallery, looking at paintings of ourselves, and believing we are there.

As Teri Garr said, in Young Frankenstein: "Is a puzzlement." o_O

As cynical as I may sound, I'm not saying I don't believe - I would LOVE to be able to. I envy those who have the capacity for faith. But until all my questions are answered, I cannot help but reserve judgement.

Predictable as always. Assumptions piled upon more assumptions. Circular reasoning/question begging, whatever you want to call it, and red herrings AAAAAAAALLLLL over the place. Note how he resorts to an appeal to authority (Einstein) in order to look all erudite and assumes we’re all going to be just blown away because he knows how to spell “General Relativity.” *snort* “Gen. Relativity.” Yes, SIR! [salute] Some stuff about Big Bang theory, and a little dash of God sprinkled in to make it look like a legit argument. Hilarious.

Look, back when I used to do this all the time, I could shred this argument until very little recognizable remained. But time is not on my side these days. So let’s cut the disingenuous crap about envying believers and look at the REAL reason you don’t want to believe. Your argument is illogical and unconvincing, so don’t try falling back on Einstein and the Big Bang. It’s entirely emotional. Let us have it so we can make this discussion actually meaningful.