Can autistic males be mistaken as "effeminate" ?

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iammaz
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19 Sep 2017, 11:31 am

As a man, I am overly masculine in my body language and movements. Someone asked me if I was gay because my house is tidy and I'm not married.
There are lots of reasons that people can get the wrong impression. It seems to depend more on their bias than anything I do.



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19 Sep 2017, 1:07 pm

Voxish wrote:
Not in my experience, in fact exactly the oposite.

Autism is discribe as being the extreme male end of the spectrum of neurodiversity.


Well that's what they say . My oldest sister is severely autistic, and she is as feminine in her mannerisms, mind and thinking as can be. She has more than just autism, though. She has a mild retardation.



nephets
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19 Sep 2017, 1:33 pm

neurotypicalET wrote:
I was often called gay when I was young, but was never interested in guys. So..I guess I was effeminate. But I learned how to walk like a man and talk like a man simply by practice. Even my ex used to say I act gay sometimes but I only did it for the lolz...

Yep, same here. I would class myself as very heterosexual, but if you don't like sports, are quiet and bookish, then, as a child, at least, you will be labelled gay (but phrased rather more unpleasantly). I actually found boyish and 'laddish' culture quite repellent. It tries too hard to be male and is like a caricature of masculinity. I suspect that Asperger was right, male aspies are an extreme form of male. Perhaps we are comfortable enough being male we don't feel the need to shout about it?



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19 Sep 2017, 8:07 pm

Many autistic people, regardless of gender, have trouble conforming to gender roles. In fact, many transition (half of all trans youths treated in the UK are on the spectrum). Others are comfortable in their birth gender but see themselves as gender nonconforming.

I was born female but have always been far more masculine than feminine. I intend to physically transition in the future, but I can't just now.


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22 Sep 2017, 9:39 pm

If autism is supposed to be a "masculine" disorder, then why are autistic guys supposedly less masculine? :scratch:



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23 Sep 2017, 7:40 am

If autism equates to masculinity, then they should be the one's doing the bullying instead of being bullied.


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23 Sep 2017, 8:05 am

In all my years I hadn't yet thought about this topic as clearly as it is being put here. Maybe even not thought about it at all.
But upon seeing this topic then looking and seeing this,

nephets wrote:
Yep, same here. I would class myself as very heterosexual, but if you don't like sports, are quiet and bookish, then, as a child, at least, you will be labelled gay (but phrased rather more unpleasantly). I actually found boyish and 'laddish' culture quite repellent. It tries too hard to be male and is like a caricature of masculinity. I suspect that Asperger was right, male aspies are an extreme form of male. Perhaps we are comfortable enough being male we don't feel the need to shout about it?

it has that feeling of rightness to it.


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23 Sep 2017, 8:15 am

I think that I can be very aggressive (not violent). Especially if the person or people leading an effort are not efficient. I expressly do not want to follow a procedure that is inefficient.

I was playing in a D&D game with some friends. The story was set in a keep on the borderlands between civilization and the uncivilized wilds. There were various sorts of currency. Their was a banker who would trade light and valuable coin for bulky less valuable coin for 10%. My character simply managed the groups money, would spend the bulky coins, and would keep the valuable coins. I think that me doing so removed some "flavorful" story interaction, but I could not stomach mismanaging resources.



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23 Sep 2017, 4:11 pm

No, as a genderqueer / genderfluid person, when I an in Femme mode there is No mistake.
:D :D



neurotypicalET
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23 Sep 2017, 4:39 pm

neurotypicalET wrote:
If autism equates to masculinity, then they should be the one's doing the bullying instead of being bullied.
But then again, one can also argue that bullying is indeed feminine as opposed to masculine because it is driven by the need to prove ones masculinity. If a person is confident of his masculinity, he wouldn't feel the need for constant reassurance of his " manliness ".


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Zaarin
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23 Sep 2017, 5:44 pm

neurotypicalET wrote:
neurotypicalET wrote:
If autism equates to masculinity, then they should be the one's doing the bullying instead of being bullied.
But then again, one can also argue that bullying is indeed feminine as opposed to masculine because it is driven by the need to prove ones masculinity. If a person is confident of his masculinity, he wouldn't feel the need for constant reassurance of his " manliness ".

Then a lot of men are definitely not confident in their masculinity. ;)


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23 Sep 2017, 5:53 pm

I could be mistakenly thought gay, though it depends on the nature of the company in question, some men being more wedded to masculinity as a mark of excellence than others. I'm sure I've met guys who would see my dress sense, sensitivity, compassion, vegetarianism, football-indifference or intelligence as a sign of gayness. But I've no idea how many are like that, I seem to unknowingly repel them and have never seen any examples of it in my circle of friends, only acquaintances, and mostly way back in the past when I was a schoolboy or student at the local technical college. I also worked all my life in universities where most folks were pretty well-educated. I haven't been mistaken as gay by anybody in the gay community yet, though I've only knowingly dealt with a few gay folks.

I sometimes get a whiff of it when reading stuff by men on the Web, when they display what to me is a puerile, sex-obsessed mentality about women, and it seems depressingly common. Even when I was a teenager I wasn't too heavily into that. So for example, when a college kid was wondering about the wisdom of having sex with his girlfriend, I asked him "do you love her?" and he was puzzled by that, and didn't answer, and I think it put him off me to a degree. I was a bit of a hippie in those days (I still like a lot of their philosophies), and I think that can be enough to give some men that kind of an illusion about me. I suspect I'm similarly prejudiced the other way round, i.e. I don't allow for the existence of gentle giants, even though I've met one or two.

Just to complicate things more, I often have a somewhat "tough" turn of phrase when I speak, and a facial expression to match, and I'm afraid I don't feel as much patience as I'd like to feel when I notice anybody, male or female, who doesn't fight back when they're attacked, though I usually think it through and don't end up harshly telling them to get a grip. I've wondered a lot about this, and I think it may be down to projection or an over-empathic thing, I just hate to see anybody letting a bully walk over them. I've never equated it with gayness though, one guy I rather like is both gay and of a tough persona, and I'm sure it's not uncommon.



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24 Sep 2017, 3:44 am

Zaarin wrote:
neurotypicalET wrote:
neurotypicalET wrote:
If autism equates to masculinity, then they should be the one's doing the bullying instead of being bullied.
But then again, one can also argue that bullying is indeed feminine as opposed to masculine because it is driven by the need to prove ones masculinity. If a person is confident of his masculinity, he wouldn't feel the need for constant reassurance of his " manliness ".

Then a lot of men are definitely not confident in their masculinity. ;)
In a way, I would say yes. Me being one of them. I mean, isn't that the reason why we conform to our societies perception of masculinity/ femininity to identify ourselves as male or female. Some people just need more reassurance than others, while to some liking women, wearing men's clothing and taking a piss standing up is enough for them to confirm their manliness.


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nephets
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24 Sep 2017, 12:27 pm

[I sometimes get a whiff of it when reading stuff by men on the Web, when they display what to me is a puerile, sex-obsessed mentality about women, and it seems depressingly common. Even when I was a teenager I wasn't too heavily into that].

Agreed, is it not the case that all the beery. aggressive, team-sports obsessed, violent masculine sub-culture, just dreadfully homo-erotic? I take no particular pleasure in the company of males for this reason. The members of this culture seem desperate to shout about how straight they are.



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24 Sep 2017, 12:54 pm

nephets wrote:
[I sometimes get a whiff of it when reading stuff by men on the Web, when they display what to me is a puerile, sex-obsessed mentality about women, and it seems depressingly common. Even when I was a teenager I wasn't too heavily into that].

Agreed, is it not the case that all the beery. aggressive, team-sports obsessed, violent masculine sub-culture, just dreadfully homo-erotic? I take no particular pleasure in the company of males for this reason. The members of this culture seem desperate to shout about how straight they are.


I am against extreme feminism that calls any masculine traits as "toxic". I believe that men and women are inherently different, but equal. God made us that way. But what else is true, since we both have the same hormones, both men and women have feminine/masculine traits, but its flipped. In that a man will typically display masculinity as his dominant, with feminine attributes as his subdominant, and vice versa for a woman.



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24 Sep 2017, 1:36 pm

Zaarin wrote:
I wouldn't describe myself as effeminate by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm also not "traditionally masculine": I hate sports, I don't constantly think about sex or stare at women's chests, I'm not terribly interested in a powerful, high-earning career (in fact, my dream job would be "stay-at-home-dad"), and in general I find traditionally masculine mannerisms off-putting (broad gestures, posturing, etc.). It's probably not surprising that most of my friends have been female... ;)


This was my dad (pretty sure he was an Aspie). He was quite easy-going, not into aggression or status, definitely interested in women but too diffident to pursue one aggressively. He did not strike me as "effeminate" but I know a lot of more alpha-male wannabe types were inclined to insult him that way.


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