why is everyone so mad about trans/nonbinary people?

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floodwater
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21 Sep 2017, 11:57 am

i genuinely don't understand what the problem is.... let people do what they want with their bodies and identities


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21 Sep 2017, 12:12 pm

sometimes they believe in a slippery slope.

some think, that, if the gays (or others) get their way, soon enough others like pedophiles and those into other such nasty things will be accepted as well. i don't think that will happen. to say the least.


preserving the "sanctity" of marriage is also a concern, but never mind all those drunken couples who get wed in a drivethru chapel in nevada after knowing each other for a night.

otherwise i wouldn't know. understandably, a lot of people feel threatened when their longstanding worldview is threatened, and many times the existence of people who aren't like themselves (nonbinary, lgbt) can do that....

I SAY: if you can have people leave you alone and feel indifferent to your differences...you're doing well enough already.


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22 Sep 2017, 5:04 am

Xenophobia at its most basic, I guess.


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underwater
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22 Sep 2017, 5:25 am

It's scary when you don't know what to expect, I expect. :roll: I'm of the live-and-let-live persuasion, but I'm afraid of accidentally saying the wrong thing to someone with complex gender issues and being pilloried for it.


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shortfatbalduglyman
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22 Sep 2017, 4:14 pm

Homophobia based in politics and religion

:D

Not "everyone" is "so mad"

Just homophobes



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22 Sep 2017, 5:31 pm

underwater wrote:
I'm afraid of accidentally saying the wrong thing to someone with complex gender issues and being pilloried for it.

That's part of MY thinking, TOO----like, for instance, there's been a few people, here, who have changed genders since they first came here, and because there's a glitch on this site that doesn't allow some people to put their correct gender, I've been confused a few times, and was worried I would use the wrong pronoun, for instance. A couple of those people have fussed at a couple of other people who called them the gender with which they first joined this site, and I don't think that's fair, because of the aforementioned glitch on this site----I feel they (the Trans-people) should be a little more patient.

I've been really rackin' my brain, trying to figure-out why I'm having a difficult time, fully accepting Trans-people----and, the only thing I've been able to come-up with, so far, is that it's because I feel like they're LYING to, or manipulating, people (and, we all know how much ASDers LOVE that [sarcasm]). I mean, I totally understand that when people trans, they feel it's the first time in their life, that they're NOT lying----but, to ME, they are presenting themselves, one way, and that's not what they actually ARE; they're the OPPOSITE (meaning, as what they were born).

Another part of my thinking----and, I wouldn't say ANY of this makes me "angry"----is that I don't like all these public discussions about what companies are doing with their bathrooms. I mean, for all *I* know, I've already been in a public bathroom, with MANY M2F Trans-people----BUT, now that so many are making it so public, I'm afraid that there's gonna be some sicko men, PRETENDING to be Trans, so they can get into the women's bathroom, and rape women (that won't be good for females, OR the Trans community, if that starts happening, alot); and, that's NOT a happy thought!!

Generally speaking, I accept Trans / non-binary people, cuz they're human beings, TOO, but they better gimme a pronoun to use----AND, how come it seems nobody (no Trans-person) can answer the question: "So, does that mean you're gay, now?" (in reference to, for instance, a M2F Trans-person, who is still attracted to females)?





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22 Sep 2017, 11:09 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
underwater wrote:
I'm afraid of accidentally saying the wrong thing to someone with complex gender issues and being pilloried for it.

I've been really rackin' my brain, trying to figure-out why I'm having a difficult time, fully accepting Trans-people----and, the only thing I've been able to come-up with, so far, is that it's because I feel like they're LYING to, or manipulating, people (and, we all know how much ASDers LOVE that [sarcasm]). I mean, I totally understand that when people trans, they feel it's the first time in their life, that they're NOT lying----but, to ME, they are presenting themselves, one way, and that's not what they actually ARE; they're the OPPOSITE (meaning, as what they were born).

Another part of my thinking----and, I wouldn't say ANY of this makes me "angry"----is that I don't like all these public discussions about what companies are doing with their bathrooms. I mean, for all *I* know, I've already been in a public bathroom, with MANY M2F Trans-people----BUT, now that so many are making it so public, I'm afraid that there's gonna be some sicko men, PRETENDING to be Trans, so they can get into the women's bathroom, and rape women (that won't be good for females, OR the Trans community, if that starts happening, alot); and, that's NOT a happy thought!!

Generally speaking, I accept Trans / non-binary people, cuz they're human beings, TOO, but they better gimme a pronoun to use----AND, how come it seems nobody (no Trans-person) can answer the question: "So, does that mean you're gay, now?" (in reference to, for instance, a M2F Trans-person, who is still attracted to females)?

As to the last bit, a transwoman who is attracted to women would likely respond that she has always been gay. She is a woman who sleeps with women. Her body was the confusing factor, not her mind.
The public bathroom thing - you'd think this issue was the only topic in LGBT circle sometimes. I think this is just discussed so often because, from the other direction, people give some transfolk a lot of grief around this. People get screamed at, cursed at, thrown out, physically confronted, security called on them etc. I can't say I've ever experienced this being androgynous, because people are never sure enough of what exactly I am to start cussing me out, but I know some people have had problems.
As to safety in public bathrooms - (a) a peaceful transperson can't be held responsible for violent cis predators' actions. It's not really fair in my opinion to say someone has to use the bathroom of the gender they were assigned (which can be dangerous, if you have transitioned) just because some pervert might pretend to be them and attack others. And (b) the percentage of average cis men who would go around raping women, especially raping little girls (as seems a common argument) is very low compared to the male population in general. People putting this out there as a definitive likelihood always seemed to me like they expect your average man to be a rapist, which is a bit insulting. Most guys would never think of raping a woman, even less raping a child. And what about other women in there, cis OR trans? The rapist would be in some serious danger there. :lol:
As to the lying thing - unfortunately that is a common response. And it's difficult for cis people to understand, I know. It's hard to understand that say a transwoman, presenting as a man, is lying to you far more than someone presenting as a woman. Because in her head she is a woman, and is "pretending" to be something else. It also blurs when people have actually undergone reassignment. How can they be lying about what they are, if their bodies conform to their internal gender orientation, just like everyone else? And please don't start with the chromosomes. :wink:
As to saying the wrong thing - I think most people are a bit lenient around this. If you say the wrong thing by accident most people aren't going to scream, but they might get upset if you're just doing it deliberately, to be insulting, when they otherwise present completely as the gender they identify with and / or have been very clear about what they prefer to be called.
With the pronoun - it's safer to just go with whatever the person asks. I know it's a crazy minority, but some genderqueer folks don't mind what you use. I know I get male, female, she, he, guys, ladies, etc. I don't mind - whatever that person wants to see me as is their own business, not mine.


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23 Sep 2017, 12:15 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
...the only thing I've been able to come-up with, so far, is that it's because I feel like they're LYING to, or manipulating, people (and, we all know how much ASDers LOVE that [sarcasm]). I mean, I totally understand that when people trans, they feel it's the first time in their life, that they're NOT lying----but, to ME, they are presenting themselves, one way, and that's not what they actually ARE; they're the OPPOSITE (meaning, as what they were born).

This.


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23 Sep 2017, 1:17 pm

I'm genderqueer.

I'm a quiet, tax-paying citizen who minds her own business.

The anger directed at me mostly comes from pseudo-intellectuals trying to prove how "anti-SJW" they are.


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23 Sep 2017, 3:45 pm

Homophobia

They have misconception

They think it is against their
Religion

They do not like it and. They are so arrogant that they truly believe that everything they do not like, "most people" do not like, and it must be bad and wrong



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23 Sep 2017, 9:51 pm

Raleigh wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
...the only thing I've been able to come-up with, so far, is that it's because I feel like they're LYING to, or manipulating, people (and, we all know how much ASDers LOVE that [sarcasm]). I mean, I totally understand that when people trans, they feel it's the first time in their life, that they're NOT lying----but, to ME, they are presenting themselves, one way, and that's not what they actually ARE; they're the OPPOSITE (meaning, as what they were born).

This.

Yeah it's a tough one. I suppose it depends on how you look at things.
Do you view people as their minds, their bodies, or a combination of both?
I tend to view people as they are what their minds are. Because to me, that is where the person lives. They are their consciousness. They live in their bodies as the thing which sustains their minds, but it has no awareness the way the mind does. It's something the person lives in, not the person themselves. The body is part of them, but it is not them.
With that perspective it's easier for me to accept that a person's gender also exists in their minds, and the problem is the body has developed wrongly (there is some medical research to back that up, which is nice).
In that sense, they are not claiming to be anything they are not. The body is in essence "lying" to you by misrepresenting the real person inside it.


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24 Sep 2017, 1:10 am

The problem is that the brain has developed wrongly. Gender dysphoria is a mental problem, not a physical one. A person's sex is determined by their set of chromosomes. If someone has an X and a Y chromosome, and they develop a normal male body, but they have a desire to be female, that's not an issue with their body, but rather with their mind.



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24 Sep 2017, 4:43 am

saxgeek wrote:
The problem is that the brain has developed wrongly. Gender dysphoria is a mental problem, not a physical one. A person's sex is determined by their set of chromosomes. If someone has an X and a Y chromosome, and they develop a normal male body, but they have a desire to be female, that's not an issue with their body, but rather with their mind.

How predictable. The chromosomes argument. As if that defines everything about a complex topic. Why just repeat this? It's simplistic and really not sufficient to explain anything.
There is evidence that transgender people were exposed to higher levels of hormones in utero, developing their bodies the wrong way, after their minds had been developed the other.
And even if you want to believe it's a "mental problem" - so what? Does that invalidate the whole topic, or cast it in some kind of stigma that automatically makes it wrong?


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24 Sep 2017, 8:06 am

Sax geek

Someone with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome is born with XY chromosomes and female a NB anatomy

Klinefelter's :D syndrome is another exception


:mrgreen:

If you do not believe me, look it up



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24 Sep 2017, 8:39 am

Is that "mad about trans/nonbinary people" like "I'm just mad about Saffron, Saffron's mad about me"?


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