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DarthMetaKnight
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22 Sep 2017, 7:49 pm

Seriously. Nearly all religions do this even though lust is a part of human nature. Contrary to popular belief, both women and men are lustful. Lust is also natural for animals ... except for the ones that rely on external fertilization.

"Lust leads to the spread of STDs."

That's what condoms are for.

"Lust leads to sexual harassment."

It's possible to think lustful thoughts and not act upon them. Everyone does that.


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techstepgenr8tion
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22 Sep 2017, 10:07 pm

edit: three paragraphs was too long so, repo'd.


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Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 22 Sep 2017, 11:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

DarthMetaKnight
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22 Sep 2017, 11:36 pm

TL;DR: The Bible was a product of its time. It's now outdated. Got it.


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madrigala
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23 Sep 2017, 12:17 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Seriously. Nearly all religions do this even though lust is a part of human nature. Contrary to popular belief, both women and men are lustful. Lust is also natural for animals ... except for the ones that rely on external fertilization.

"Lust leads to the spread of STDs."

That's what condoms are for.

"Lust leads to sexual harassment."

It's possible to think lustful thoughts and not act upon them. Everyone does that.




Unrestrained lust is anathema to stability and wellbeing. Song of Songs is a celebration of erotic passion in the context of a sacred marital union. The Judeo Christian believe the sexual act to be the most sacred manifestation of human love and is in fact a process in which we make Divine love manifest here on earth.
In terms of thinking lustful thoughts while not acting I would contend that something as primal and basic as lust will , like gas under pressure, break free from its confines.
Essentially, religions demonise lust divorced from love. Sex should not simply be recreational, there must be a creative function there too. The creative function makes the act fecund if you will. By that I mean it doesn't leave you feeling an indefinable sense of loss/emptiness/regret but actually brings both parties into a direct encounter with the Divine and the Other.



DarthMetaKnight
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23 Sep 2017, 3:08 pm

madrigala wrote:
Unrestrained lust is anathema to stability and wellbeing. Song of Songs is a celebration of erotic passion in the context of a sacred marital union. The Judeo Christian believe the sexual act to be the most sacred manifestation of human love and is in fact a process in which we make Divine love manifest here on earth.


Throughout most of Christian history, marriages were arranged, usually by male family members. The Bible also states that taking virgin girls home as trophies during war is okay. There's no mushy love bullcrap in that.

Quote:
In terms of thinking lustful thoughts while not acting I would contend that something as primal and basic as lust will , like gas under pressure, break free from its confines.
Essentially, religions demonise lust divorced from love. Sex should not simply be recreational, there must be a creative function there too. The creative function makes the act fecund if you will. By that I mean it doesn't leave you feeling an indefinable sense of loss/emptiness/regret but actually brings both parties into a direct encounter with the Divine and the Other.


Stop projecting. Most people don't feel loss/emptiness/regret when they engage in casual sex. It's just you. Really.


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madrigala
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23 Sep 2017, 10:40 pm

Quote:
Throughout most of Christian history, marriages were arranged, usually by male family members. The Bible also states that taking virgin girls home as trophies during war is okay. There's no mushy love bullcrap in that.


You are confusing theory and practice. Christians are as a people still in the process of sanctification. I look at the virgin girls not as trophies but as God's way toward redemption for the Canaanites. These women are actually adopted into the fold so to speak. I would argue that this reflects God's later inclusion of the gentiles in his covenant and is thus in the symbolic realm an act of love.


Quote:
Stop projecting. Most people don't feel loss/emptiness/regret when they engage in casual sex. It's just you. Really


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fu ... tal-health

Researchers examining the mental health associations of hookup sex also report that participants who were not depressed before showed more depressive symptoms and loneliness after engaging in casual sex.



Mikah
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23 Sep 2017, 10:58 pm

The desire to commit violence is also natural, that does not mean we should indulge those desires. While in the case of violence the need for regulation and rules is more obvious, the case for sexual regulation is less obvious. To sum it up simply: many religions "demonize" lust and make many other sometimes seemingly arbitrary rules about sexuality for one reason: the encouragement and maintenance of monogamous marriage (as you may recall from a previous thread - an unnatural state for humans that requires some care to maintain).


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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24 Sep 2017, 7:44 am

There is perhaps a mundane practical side to the lust issue,
More illnesses could be sexually transmitted than we thought — including the common cold
Erin Brodwin
Sep. 18, 2017, 12:58 PM

Quote:
"After a team of British researchers found bits of Zika virus lingering in the semen of men whose symptoms had cleared months before, they began to wonder: What other viruses hide out in unsuspecting parts of the body?

At least 27, according to a new report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/23/11/17-1049_article

"Lots of questions about the viruses remain. The most pressing is whether or not they could all be sexually transmitted to a new host. The researchers also want to know how long the viruses remain in semen and in what concentrations, as well as how their presence impacts sperm and male fertility more broadly.

"This brings up more questions than it answers — and that's fascinating," Liu said."

http://www.businessinsider.com/viruses-sexually-transmitted-diseases-std-semen-2017-9

the best way to not get an STD is to not have sex, much like how the best way to not drown while swimming in an abandoned quarry is to not swim in an abandoned quarry.


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madrigala
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24 Sep 2017, 12:56 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
There is perhaps a mundane practical side to the lust issue,
More illnesses could be sexually transmitted than we thought — including the common cold
Erin Brodwin
Sep. 18, 2017, 12:58 PM
Quote:
"After a team of British researchers found bits of Zika virus lingering in the semen of men whose symptoms had cleared months before, they began to wonder: What other viruses hide out in unsuspecting parts of the body?

At least 27, according to a new report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/23/11/17-1049_article

"Lots of questions about the viruses remain. The most pressing is whether or not they could all be sexually transmitted to a new host. The researchers also want to know how long the viruses remain in semen and in what concentrations, as well as how their presence impacts sperm and male fertility more broadly.

"This brings up more questions than it answers — and that's fascinating," Liu said."

http://www.businessinsider.com/viruses-sexually-transmitted-diseases-std-semen-2017-9

the best way to not get an STD is to not have sex, much like how the best way to not drown while swimming in an abandoned quarry is to not swim in an abandoned quarry.



There is also the spiritual equivalent of venereal disease which could be aid to be demonic transmission. This is not something I generally bring up as im not quite sure precisely what is meant by demonic transmission, however I do believe there is a spiritual dimension and there are fallen/fell entities who are attracted to unrestrained human passions. Most religions have such beings actually and the archetype of the Vampire (the parasitic archetype) could be seen to be a corporeal manifestation of this.



shlaifu
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24 Sep 2017, 8:01 pm

Stability. Having premarital sex, for most of mankind's history, meant creating bastard children. Bastard children didn't have manybrights, inherited nothing, owned nothing and thus became a problem for society. Also: a bastard, not raised properly because he belongs nowhere, is himself not a bearer of culture, hence, doesn't propagate his parent's culture. It ends with him, and he might start something new, something rivaling the old and established.

Extramarital sex has that risk to it, plus it can create problems for the marriage/family, - which is the smallest unit of society, and can lead to destabilisation and break in cultural lineage.

Running and propagating a society without running water is hard enough. Promiscuity makes it so much harder.

Obviously, contraceptives and social security changed that a lot, and, hey-, modern societies are doing quite well.


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K_Kelly
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07 Oct 2017, 2:43 am

It's really annoying.

Because God is cruel enough to want everyone to be single in Heaven one day, including anyone who always wanted a relationship here but never got it.

What a bigot.



Nickchick
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25 Oct 2017, 3:35 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
madrigala wrote:
Unrestrained lust is anathema to stability and wellbeing. Song of Songs is a celebration of erotic passion in the context of a sacred marital union. The Judeo Christian believe the sexual act to be the most sacred manifestation of human love and is in fact a process in which we make Divine love manifest here on earth.


Throughout most of Christian history, marriages were arranged, usually by male family members. The Bible also states that taking virgin girls home as trophies during war is okay. There's no mushy love bullcrap in that.

Quote:
In terms of thinking lustful thoughts while not acting I would contend that something as primal and basic as lust will , like gas under pressure, break free from its confines.
Essentially, religions demonise lust divorced from love. Sex should not simply be recreational, there must be a creative function there too. The creative function makes the act fecund if you will. By that I mean it doesn't leave you feeling an indefinable sense of loss/emptiness/regret but actually brings both parties into a direct encounter with the Divine and the Other.


Stop projecting. Most people don't feel loss/emptiness/regret when they engage in casual sex. It's just you. Really.



The bible states a lot of things. It doesn't really make sense. It's an old book that's been translated probably even mistranslated dozens of times so the demonization of lust is no surprise but I'm with you obviously.

Well I'm not sure about casual sex. It depends on what you mean by that. I can tell you that sex without love isn't the same. Some people can do it with no problem and it still feels good regardless but it's always best if you can do it with someone you love..at least for some of us.
Now waiting until marriage I never understood. You CAN connect with the person without sex but sex is a component in many relationships to connecting with the person more. How are you going to know what it's going to be like to have sex with them if you wait until marriage? You have to test drive the car before you go and purchase am I right?
I respect people's decision if that's what they truly want to do but it doesn't work for everyone and I think the more you pressure yourself to do it sometimes the more likely you are to violate it. Look at Britney Spears for example.
It's also what happened to the Jonas Brothers. They wore a purity ring and eventually they gave in.
It's natural to want sex like you said and there's nothing wrong with premarital sex. I think the reason it's against the rules to have sex before marriage is like someone else said procreation but what about infertile couples? Are they not supposed to have sex at all just because they don't have the physical capabilities? Should they not even get married?

Some people also just don't want to get married but they still love the person. Maybe even one person would ideally like to get married but the other one does not. Does that mean they shouldn't be with the person they love? In fact that may even be a sign how much they really care about the other person...that they're willing to be with them anyway and respect their wishes. When you have true feelings for someone it feels good to just have that person in your life. You might want more but it's better than not having them at all.



naturalplastic
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25 Oct 2017, 10:29 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
It's really annoying.

Because God is cruel enough to want everyone to be single in Heaven one day, including anyone who always wanted a relationship here but never got it.

What a bigot.


I keep telling ya to convert to Islam so you can have the 49 virgins.



naturalplastic
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25 Oct 2017, 10:32 pm

Because lust is bad and aweful!



techstepgenr8tion
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26 Oct 2017, 2:08 am

We've had this wonderful tradition in the west that suggests if you jump up and down on and repress the things you don't want to see in yourself that, regardless of whether it works, it's the right thing to do and you'll be rewarded for it at some undefined point in the future.

That's perhaps good advice for the person with no impulse control, terrible advice for a neurotic.


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26 Oct 2017, 7:08 am

I think there's something in the Freudian concept of libido. Controlling sexuality (a fundamental drive even in people who choose not to have sex) enables very effective control of people. Religion is mostly an attempt to impose order on the natural and social worlds. Individual religious practice is often attempt to impose order on one's nature; this is especially true of religious women. When I was religious, I was certainly trying to diminish aspects of myself that made others uncomfortable.


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