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BettaPonic
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25 Sep 2017, 9:15 pm

Plenty of other faiths have had problems with racism. The Islamic world enslaved Africans. During the civil rights era Christianity was used to argue for civil rights.

From one non christitian to another, brother your making the rest of us look bad.



funeralxempire
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25 Sep 2017, 9:20 pm

BettaPonic wrote:
Plenty of other faiths have had problems with racism. The Islamic world enslaved Africans. During the civil rights era Christianity was used to argue for civil rights.

From one non christitian to another, brother your making the rest of us look bad.


Basically this, I'm sure there's loads else we don't agree on, but +1, 'like' and whatever else kids do on their internets these days.


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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


BettaPonic
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25 Sep 2017, 9:26 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
Plenty of other faiths have had problems with racism. The Islamic world enslaved Africans. During the civil rights era Christianity was used to argue for civil rights.

From one non christitian to another, brother your making the rest of us look bad.


Basically this, I'm sure there's loads else we don't agree on, but +1, 'like' and whatever else kids do on their internets these days.

By the quote you have on your sig. I would not be surprised if we agreed on more than you think. Thank you.



Lintar
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25 Sep 2017, 9:43 pm

white_as_snow wrote:
The way for exemple black people get treaded by christians in USA you will not see that in any muslim/hindu/buddhist nation.


What?! Haven't you even been watching the news, hearing about what is NOW occurring in (Buddhist) Burma (a.k.a. Myanmar)?

Oh boy, I'm hoping (really hoping) that this discussion topic is just a joke, because I find it really hard to accept that anyone on Earth (especially these days with such easy access to information) could be so shockingly ignorant. One other example of how appallingly wrong you are: East Timor (a Christian nation) under the occupation of Islamic Indonesia. I suggest you 'Google' it. I could easily list a thousand other such examples.



funeralxempire
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25 Sep 2017, 9:46 pm

BettaPonic wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
Plenty of other faiths have had problems with racism. The Islamic world enslaved Africans. During the civil rights era Christianity was used to argue for civil rights.

From one non christitian to another, brother your making the rest of us look bad.


Basically this, I'm sure there's loads else we don't agree on, but +1, 'like' and whatever else kids do on their internets these days.

By the quote you have on your sig. I would not be surprised if we agreed on more than you think. Thank you.


It's possible, I had only seen the one other comment where you said Trudeau was worse than Trump... I'd say that's like comparing a stale, bland sandwich with a s**t sandwich. Usually the better you know someone's views the more you agree on and the more you disagree on... at the very least you get a better idea where they actually fall instead of 'are you on team red or team blue?!'.


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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


white_as_snow
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26 Sep 2017, 5:03 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well I am not so sure Christianity alone is to blame, but I have thought about this before as well and I certainly think in a lot of ways it has played a role. I mean just looking at the part of american history the manifest destiny when 'good christian settlers' took land from the natives because god had entitled them to take all that the 'savages' had for themselves or at least that was some of the justification. They slaughtered natives to take the land and whatever children were left they'd sent to boarding schools to teach them to be like 'civilized' white people, the children were often times abused as well.


Well, we can say this: christiantiy is the only religion that supports racism.



adifferentname
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26 Sep 2017, 6:04 pm

white_as_snow wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well I am not so sure Christianity alone is to blame, but I have thought about this before as well and I certainly think in a lot of ways it has played a role. I mean just looking at the part of american history the manifest destiny when 'good christian settlers' took land from the natives because god had entitled them to take all that the 'savages' had for themselves or at least that was some of the justification. They slaughtered natives to take the land and whatever children were left they'd sent to boarding schools to teach them to be like 'civilized' white people, the children were often times abused as well.


Well, we can say this: christiantiy is the only religion that supports racism.


We can also say the moon is made of cheese, that doesn't make it so.

If you're at all interested in being accurate, what you could say is that an oft-translated and heavily edited text from some 2000 years ago provides a framework that might be used by racists to self-justify their preexisting racism, but of all the many moral failings I'd attribute to Christianity, racism doesn't make the list.

The thing about religions, as with most collectivist ideologies, is that they seek to be dominant - preferably ubiquitous. Those that include moral rules (i.e. virtually all ideologies), commandments or litmus tests typically teach their adherents that non-followers are ungodly, evil, sinful, hateful, etc - especially when compared to the virtuous, right-thinking devotee. Christianity's bigotry historically has been towards the unfaithful, or the 'wrong-faithful', regardless of skin colour.

One wonders why you've singled out Christianity. Did you recently abandon it for atheism?



white_as_snow
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27 Sep 2017, 4:08 pm

BettaPonic wrote:
Plenty of other faiths have had problems with racism. The Islamic world enslaved Africans. During the civil rights era Christianity was used to argue for civil rights.

From one non christitian to another, brother your making the rest of us look bad.


No other religion have this problem.

Nope, arab nationalists did it, not muslims.



white_as_snow
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27 Sep 2017, 4:14 pm

Lintar wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
The way for exemple black people get treaded by christians in USA you will not see that in any muslim/hindu/buddhist nation.


What?! Haven't you even been watching the news, hearing about what is NOW occurring in (Buddhist) Burma (a.k.a. Myanmar)?

Oh boy, I'm hoping (really hoping) that this discussion topic is just a joke, because I find it really hard to accept that anyone on Earth (especially these days with such easy access to information) could be so shockingly ignorant. One other example of how appallingly wrong you are: East Timor (a Christian nation) under the occupation of Islamic Indonesia. I suggest you 'Google' it. I could easily list a thousand other such examples.


what is happening in burma is nationalistc-racism and not becuse of buddhism.

yeah i read about that, east timor had a harsh rule and islamic soldiers come there to help them.



funeralxempire
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28 Sep 2017, 2:01 am

white_as_snow wrote:
Lintar wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
The way for exemple black people get treaded by christians in USA you will not see that in any muslim/hindu/buddhist nation.


What?! Haven't you even been watching the news, hearing about what is NOW occurring in (Buddhist) Burma (a.k.a. Myanmar)?

Oh boy, I'm hoping (really hoping) that this discussion topic is just a joke, because I find it really hard to accept that anyone on Earth (especially these days with such easy access to information) could be so shockingly ignorant. One other example of how appallingly wrong you are: East Timor (a Christian nation) under the occupation of Islamic Indonesia. I suggest you 'Google' it. I could easily list a thousand other such examples.


what is happening in burma is nationalistc-racism and not becuse of buddhism.

yeah i read about that, east timor had a harsh rule and islamic soldiers come there to help them.


'Help' would be a hideous reinterpretation of Indonesia's invasion and occupation of East Timor.


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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Sep 2017, 4:03 am

Lebanese Christians should be a curious case for you.

Back in the civil war here, the capital was divided into two: West Beirut which was predominately of Muslim population + Christian Greek Orthodoxs and the most powerful ruling parties/militias were Leftist (Socialist/Communist/Arab nationalists) besides the PLO, the Christians in West Beirut weren't very devout and belonging to leftist parties. They embraced 'other ethnicities' such as the Palestinians and Kurds.
East Beirut, was almost entirely Christian and Maronite Catholics in particular; and the ruling parties/militias were hardcore Christian Right-wing; the Lebanese Phalanges party for instance is inspired from Nazi, they have a "Phoenician" master race ideology and regarded their fellow Lebanese Muslim as less pure Lebanese/Phoenician who got mixed with Arabs and other "inferior races". They view Maronite Christians as the "purest" descendants of Phoenicians, what supports their claim is their written liturgical history, the original language of Maronites was Syriac Aramaic, not Arabic (even though Arabic is descendant from Syriac) but there's no proof that the ancestors of local Muslims didn't speak it.

Anyway, what's funny though, that historically, Phoenicians was a Canaanite people (Canaanism is a religion, not a race) and the bible clearly views Canaanites as inferiors deserving extermination, the local right-wing Christians are so in denial regarding this; it must be quite a dilemma for them that their own religion insults the very race that they believe they belong to and proud of.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 62936.html



techstepgenr8tion
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28 Sep 2017, 7:45 am

With Christianity I don't think there's a moral imperative for slavery so much as a prescription for - since it was happening at the time - the most ethical way to handle it. Our overthrow of slavery was our achievement, actually big thanks as well to the industrial revolution and slightly earlier inventions like the cotton gin.

Religions, especially those such as the big five (with some evolving exception for Judaism) tend to be open to any race. It doesn't at all insure that white Christians will treat black Christians well necessarily or that Arab muslims will treat African muslims well.

I have go to to work soon and I realize that we're dealing with a mess of a lot of dynamics that I can't get too far into. For example in the west Christianity was held up against Enlightenment individualism and the two were shaken together. In Islam you had less of that, largely because it's a total system of life rather than just a religion. Hinduism and Buddhism seem more like systems of training in a lot of ways than religions although they do contain their mythos and deities to work with.

For the ways African Americans have been treated historically I'd really put it down to slave trade economics of the times, economics in the south, skin tones that couldn't be more polar in their extreme, the cultures were completely different (how could they not be with the given circumstances), no education for slaves which meant no capacity for assimilation without a significant hand-up that was never given, and no moderating force to bring sanity to the situation for over 100 years after slavery ended - and even then in many cases to questionable effectiveness.

All I think Christianity might have done is given people places to feel safe and cloistered as well as being an emotional hub for the social networks of the time and places where preachers could moralize, quite pig-headedly at times, and do so impervious to sociological facts on the ground.


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white_as_snow
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28 Sep 2017, 11:31 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Lebanese Christians should be a curious case for you.

Back in the civil war here, the capital was divided into two: West Beirut which was predominately of Muslim population + Christian Greek Orthodoxs and the most powerful ruling parties/militias were Leftist (Socialist/Communist/Arab nationalists) besides the PLO, the Christians in West Beirut weren't very devout and belonging to leftist parties. They embraced 'other ethnicities' such as the Palestinians and Kurds.
East Beirut, was almost entirely Christian and Maronite Catholics in particular; and the ruling parties/militias were hardcore Christian Right-wing; the Lebanese Phalanges party for instance is inspired from Nazi, they have a "Phoenician" master race ideology and regarded their fellow Lebanese Muslim as less pure Lebanese/Phoenician who got mixed with Arabs and other "inferior races". They view Maronite Christians as the "purest" descendants of Phoenicians, what supports their claim is their written liturgical history, the original language of Maronites was Syriac Aramaic, not Arabic (even though Arabic is descendant from Syriac) but there's no proof that the ancestors of local Muslims didn't speak it.

Anyway, what's funny though, that historically, Phoenicians was a Canaanite people (Canaanism is a religion, not a race) and the bible clearly views Canaanites as inferiors deserving extermination, the local right-wing Christians are so in denial regarding this; it must be quite a dilemma for them that their own religion insults the very race that they believe they belong to and proud of.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 62936.html


those you call socialists and communists where muslims....muslims always been leftists and anti-racists while christians are always racists/nazis. i can in fact not think of any christian that is not a far-right winger.

old testament? sure but new testament is even worse since it says that everyone who is not a christian is inferior and deserving of extermination.



funeralxempire
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28 Sep 2017, 11:48 am

white_as_snow wrote:
those you call socialists and communists where muslims....muslims always been leftists and anti-racists while christians are always racists/nazis. i can in fact not think of any christian that is not a far-right winger.


Leo Tolstoy.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Sep 2017, 7:15 am

white_as_snow wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Lebanese Christians should be a curious case for you.

Back in the civil war here, the capital was divided into two: West Beirut which was predominately of Muslim population + Christian Greek Orthodoxs and the most powerful ruling parties/militias were Leftist (Socialist/Communist/Arab nationalists) besides the PLO, the Christians in West Beirut weren't very devout and belonging to leftist parties. They embraced 'other ethnicities' such as the Palestinians and Kurds.
East Beirut, was almost entirely Christian and Maronite Catholics in particular; and the ruling parties/militias were hardcore Christian Right-wing; the Lebanese Phalanges party for instance is inspired from Nazi, they have a "Phoenician" master race ideology and regarded their fellow Lebanese Muslim as less pure Lebanese/Phoenician who got mixed with Arabs and other "inferior races". They view Maronite Christians as the "purest" descendants of Phoenicians, what supports their claim is their written liturgical history, the original language of Maronites was Syriac Aramaic, not Arabic (even though Arabic is descendant from Syriac) but there's no proof that the ancestors of local Muslims didn't speak it.

Anyway, what's funny though, that historically, Phoenicians was a Canaanite people (Canaanism is a religion, not a race) and the bible clearly views Canaanites as inferiors deserving extermination, the local right-wing Christians are so in denial regarding this; it must be quite a dilemma for them that their own religion insults the very race that they believe they belong to and proud of.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 62936.html


those you call socialists and communists where muslims....muslims always been leftists and anti-racists while christians are always racists/nazis. i can in fact not think of any christian that is not a far-right winger.



Not just muslims tho, the founders and leaders of the local Communist Party were ex-Christians atheists.

But yeah... you do have some point in something: Muslim-Left vs Christian-Right was the main picture in the Lebanese civil war. It is no secret that Muslims and Leftists were always closer politically than Christian to leftists.


Quote:
old testament? sure but new testament is even worse since it says that everyone who is not a christian is inferior and deserving of extermination.


The Qur'an is a direct child of old testament.

Actually, the whole Islam is probably a child of a non-trinitarian Messianic Jewish sect; which explains the striking similarity between Islam and Judaism.



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29 Sep 2017, 8:53 am

I would rather attribute racism to the universal to humanity "we are superior over them" way of thinking. It is just one of the ways it can show up.

I wonder if animals in a lab could be conditioned (but not trained) to act racist. I mean, hostile to another group which is clearly different in a way obvious for given species. Which animals would, which wouldn't? What conditions would inhibit acting "racist" and what would intensify it? That would be quite an interesting research.


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