Columnist George Will diagnoses Trump with “Social Autism”

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ASPartOfMe
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05 Oct 2017, 3:22 am

TRUMP HAS ‘SOCIAL AUTISM,’ DOESN’T SEE ‘OTHER PEOPLE,’ SAYS CONSERVATIVE PUNDIT GEORGE WILL

Quote:
Will, who has been a fierce critic of Trump, said on MSNBC’s Morning Joe Wednesday that there was something fundamentally wrong with the president that produces a galling lack of empathy.

“It’s not clear that he sees other people,” said Will, who also writes a regular column in The Washington Post. “There’s such a thing as a kind of social autism—that he just doesn’t connect with other people. There’s no point in saying, Well, maybe he’ll acquire it. This is not part of his genetic makeup. He’s 70 [71] years old.”

As for whether Trump might grow into the specific role of comforter-in-chief, Will was blunt in his assessment.

“It’s like explaining the color turquoise to someone who is colorblind,” he said. “He just doesn’t get this part of the presidential function. And he’s not going to.”


The old autistics have no empathy stereotype rears its ugly head.


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05 Oct 2017, 3:58 am

The ignorant confusion in mistaking narcissistic personality disorder (Trump is a textbook example of symptoms and criteria) as an autistic-related condition.

However, the flip side is that people who know the difference will readily pick up on it and may use it as an opportunity to clarify the mistake, so it could work out as a blessing in disguise if enough people are proactive. If the AS community makes no response, it will be a missed opportunity.



naturalplastic
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05 Oct 2017, 4:19 am

George Will wasn't using the term "autism" literally, as a medical diagnosis.

He meant that Trump is impaired, and in impaired in a chronic way that he cant out grow.

Will coulda said "Trump is socially crippled", but that would invoke the image of a person in leg cast with a broken leg. And folks with bone fractures DO heal after a few weeks. And Will's point was that the president cant "outgrow" this life long condition he has any more than autistics can stop being autistic. Seems like a pretty good metaphor for Trump to me.



ASPartOfMe
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05 Oct 2017, 7:56 am

Will's son is a Downie(down syndrome).

Trump understands people enough to have run successful businesses, hosted a top-rated network TV show and been elected President.

Caring about oneself only is not the same thing as not understanding other people. He uses his understanding of others for his own ends only. The other issue is he has the maturity of a toddler specifically the inability to think before acting or saying something and a massive, massive ego and probably paranoia. He has been rewarded over and over again for these behaviors that nearly everybody who is supposed to be smart claimed will doom him. Thus not only does he not see the need to change his behaviors, when criticized it signals him to quadruple down on the behaviors. In business people are out to get you and his political enemies are out to get him so paranoia/conspiracy theory so his thinking has a basis in reality.

All of the above has nothing to do with autism. Is it possible there is autism is causing or enhancing his behaviors, although I doubt it, yes but that is not the main problem at this point. The problems whatever the cause is, we are stuck with a person who has absolutely the wrong personality for the job he holds and the extreme difficulty and future consequences of removing him from his job.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 05 Oct 2017, 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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05 Oct 2017, 8:59 am

As stated above, a toddler with a clear case of NPD.

What a monkey can deduce from his behaviour:
* Incompetent, overexaggerates his skills.
* Pathological liar.
* Manipulative.
* Takes no responsibility for his actions.
* Requires admiration.
* Arrogant behaviour.
* No empathy.
* Exploits others.

Better hope that 1) Whitehouse staffers puts a child safety lock on the nuclear button and 2) Mueller expedites his investigation and starts impeachment proceedings to get rid of that russian puppet.


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05 Oct 2017, 10:11 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The old autistics have no empathy stereotype rears its ugly head.

Yeah, I DO think that's what this guy is saying----but, I DON'T think that's how the president FEELS. I feel that just like WE are always accused of having no empathy, HE'S being accused of that----and, since *I* (and others, on here) think that he's an Aspie, it's not surprising that he's gonna get accused of this, and other "bad behavior", when it's really "only" Aspie-driven behavior (as he already HAS, IMO), and not INTENDED to be bad behavior.

I feel that, just like us, he DOES have empathy (MY theory is, we DO have empathy - we, maybe, even feel MORE than non-Aspies - it's just that it doesn't take much to overwhelm us; so, instead of being able to think quickly enough, to DO / say something appropriate, we just shut-down [thus, coming-across as uncaring / UN-empathetic]), and that what he DOESN'T seem to have, is a FILTER (just like most of the rest of us, Aspies - I feel that's why he made, what seemed to alot of people, a silly remark about planes, the other day, when he was talking to extremely hungry / thirsty Puerto Ricans)----and, let's face it, he's never HAD TO have a filter, before, cuz he was numero uno / Top Dog; and, everybody just, automatically, bowed and kissed his ring. He THOUGHT that he would be numero uno, in THIS job, as well----but, he soon found-out, that wasn't the case (IMO, that totally explains his "Boy, this job is HARD" [or, something like that] comment). He's, for the longest time, never had to answer to anybody else----what he, ALONE, said, was "law" (NOW, it takes a whole lotta people, to make a law)----and, he never had 300+ million people judging him; if anybody DARED to judge him, before, and he heard it, he'd just FIRE 'em----but, NOW, 300+ million people have the upper hand, and can fire HIM.

IMO, it's very similar to what seems to be the case, with alot of people, HERE, in that, IMO, they come here with the idea that they're special, cuz in their little predominantly NT world, they ARE special----but, when they come HERE, they quickly learn that they are NOT, because everybody here, is as studious, for instance, as THEY are, and can argue with / prove them wrong, and they've never experienced that, before (have been, in essence, numero uno, in THEIR world).

I feel he WILL learn----and, I feel he will struggle (already seems apparent), just like the rest of us Aspies have struggled to learn the "rules" (social rules); but, it's gonna take ALOT more time (just like it has taken US, here, alot more time, than NTs, to learn stuff), and we can poo-poo his every effort / utterance----OR, we can be like: "Well, I really can't blame him, cuz I sure am not always without fault / faux pas / foibles / whatever". Don't get me wrong, I TOTALLY get why some of us (Americans) feel he should be "more presidential", or whatever----but, how many times have we thought we could do a job, if people would only give us, a chance?

Bottom Line: He's got 3+ years, yet, to become "more presidential"----if he winds-up not being capable, tell him "You're FIRED!!" (I only hope that that won't be the ONLY way in which he gets judged - and that, if he does alot more GOOD for this country, then his foibles and so-forth will be overlooked [just like *I* appreciate when MY "shortcomings", or whatever, are overlooked]).





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kraftiekortie
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05 Oct 2017, 10:38 am

I don't actually feel Trump lacks empathy.

I sense, rather, that he likes to take a "tough love" approach to things, and that he is inflexible about it.

He is centered on "his values," and does not really relate to the values of other cultures.



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05 Oct 2017, 11:16 am

To remove him because people THINK he is mentally ill would set a bad precedent. His removal at best will further convince a large minority of Americans that the system is out to screw them and destroy anybody that stands up for them. If he is mentally ill an impeachment or 25th amendment effort to remove him will enhance the mental illnesses of a man with the "nuclear football".

We are in a real "catch 22" "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation.


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05 Oct 2017, 11:20 am

That's it. We're doomed. People believe everything they see and hear in fake and media, they don't believe us, so now we absolutely nothing left to look forward to. Might as well line up for the inevitable mass suicide because we're in a world we were never asked to be in.



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05 Oct 2017, 3:37 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
To remove him because people THINK he is mentally ill would set a bad precedent. His removal at best will further convince a large minority of Americans that the system is out to screw them and destroy anybody that stands up for them. If he is mentally ill an impeachment or 25th amendment effort to remove him will enhance the mental illnesses of a man with the "nuclear football".

We are in a real "catch 22" "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation.


There is going to be a very rocky road ahead whatever happens. On the one hand it is now clear to Republican Party itself that backing Trump was a colossal error. Even outliers of intemperance like Coulter now despair of his "vast, yawning, narcissism", his obsession with the media and constant badmouthing of it (when he is caught out each time) and his hypersensitivity to anyone else who really does know better than he does.

The fact is that Trump is hopelessly out of his depth, driven by ego not knowledge nor experience of political leadership, and he has shown he has no chance of "growing into" the role as his more optimistic voters hoped. They are probably all defectors now. Trump has never been a leader, he has been motivated by self interest all his life, and that is the antithesis of leadership. He just can't seem to get that he represents a country as a whole, not himself alone. He has no inner moral core of consistency of values (other than acquisition and self-enrichment) that USA citizens can rely on; so there is growing realisation and I think despair in the general USA public where many must be feeling a deep sense of betrayal.

All of the options for his exit from the POTUS embody issues and problems.

- Trump, in a fit of pique and narcissistic rage might suddenly resign.
- The level and depth of the mismanagement and unacceptable behaviour together with increasing mental issues may lead to a forced removal led by the Republicans.
-He may be impeached if the evidence is damning in the future
-He may die in office

Whatever happens the concept and practice of democracy has been deeply wounded in the USA, by the Trump Circus, yet there is the argument that however bad Trump is, democracy itself dictates that his incompetence be allowed to run its course. There are counter arguments, too, and that division is a hostile and apparently very wide one now.

Trump supporters' grievance at his removal (if it occurs) could spiral into terrible actions and events, a serious period of unrest and even greater dysfunctionality for a time.

Last year in PPR I discussed (tried to) the themes of the famous book of Sinclair Lewis, which (of course) was derided by some of the more avid Trump-the-Savior supporters. Perhaps now they have rethought the situation. Perhaps.

This lurching, out-of-control presidency is more dangerous every day. If the Republicans (in congress and the upper party) as a group can find a way to nurse it to destruction in a careful way that is not a sudden breakdown of the status quo now, then there is hope for an orderly process of change. A sudden breakdown could throw the USA into a catastrophic explosion of the seething resentment that lies simmering in the underbelly, volatile and explosive.

Sinclair Lewis would recognise it. I hope the USA comes out of this ok, peacefully, and will never elect a populist opportunist with no political expertise ever again, and if Trump achieves that, then the USA will be much safer for the current and coming generations.

I was very fond of the USA for a long time and enjoyed my trips and journeys there over three decades. I met people who were peaceful and relatively untroubled souls in many states. Now I won't even enter the country (some WP members can rejoice at that) though I hope things will resolve and it will once again become a country the world can admire, despite the issues that have been a dilemma for a long time.



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05 Oct 2017, 3:48 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The old autistics have no empathy stereotype rears its ugly head.

[b]Yeah, I DO think that's what this guy is saying----but, I DON'T think that's how the president FEELS. I feel that just like WE are always accused of having no empathy, HE'S being accused of that----and, since *I* (and others, on here) think that he's an Aspie, it's not surprising that he's gonna get accused of this, and other "bad behavior", when it's really "only" Aspie-driven behavior (as he already HAS, IMO), and not INTENDED to be bad behavior.
b]


You ARE joking aren't you? That you think that Trump is an aspie?

If you're being serious then how did you arrive at that conclusion? (Sociopath I can see, but not aspie).



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05 Oct 2017, 3:52 pm

Trump is not an aspie. The large number of members of the APA who signed the document about his NPD were in total agreement that NPD was so marked as to be unmistakeable, and they are right in my opinion.

The American Psychoanalytic Association, a leading psychiatry group in the US, told its 3,500 members that they can comment on the mental state of politicians, including President Donald Trump. The decision breaks with a decades-old rule that keeps experts from publicly talking about the psychiatric condition of public figures they haven’t actually examined.



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05 Oct 2017, 3:59 pm

B19 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
To remove him because people THINK he is mentally ill would set a bad precedent. His removal at best will further convince a large minority of Americans that the system is out to screw them and destroy anybody that stands up for them. If he is mentally ill an impeachment or 25th amendment effort to remove him will enhance the mental illnesses of a man with the "nuclear football".

We are in a real "catch 22" "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation.


There is going to be a very rocky road ahead whatever happens. On the one hand it is now clear to Republican Party itself that backing Trump was a colossal error. Even outliers of intemperance like Coulter now despairs of his "vast, yawning, narcissism", his obsession with the media and constant badmouthing of it (when he is caught out each time) and his hypersensitivity to anyone else who really does know better than he does.

The fact is that Trump is hopelessly out of his depth, driven by ego not knowledge nor experience of political leadership, and he has shown he has no chance of "growing into" the role as his more optimistic voters hoped. They are probably all defectors now. Trump has never been a leader, he has been motivated by self interest all his life, and that is the antithesis of leadership. He just can't seem to get that he represents a country as a whole, not himself alone. He has no inner moral core of consistency of values (other than acquisition and self-enrichment) that USA citizens can rely on; so there is growing realisation and I think despair in the general USA public and sections feeling a deep betrayal.

All of the options for his exit from the POTUS embody issues and problems.

- Trump, in a fit of pique and narcissistic rage might suddenly resign.
- The level and depth of the mismanagement and unacceptable behaviour together with increasing mental issues may lead to a forced removal led by the Republicans.
-He may be impeached if the evidence is damning in the future
-He may die in office

Whatever happens the concept and practice of democracy has been deeply wounded in the USA, by the Trump Circus, yet there is the argument that however bad Trump is, democracy itself dictates that his incompetence be allowed to run its course. There are counter arguments, too, and that division is a hostile and apparently very wide one now.

Grievance at his removal could spiral into terrible actions and events, a serious period of unrest and even greater dysfunctionality for a time.

Last year in PPR I discussed (tried to) the themes of the famous book of Sinclair Lewis, which (of course) was derided by some of the more avid Trump the Savior supporters. Perhaps now they have rethought the situation. Perhaps.

This lurching out of control presidency is more dangerous every day. If the Republicans (in congress and the upper party) as a group can find a way to nurse it to destruction in a careful way that is not a sudden breakdown of the status quo now, then there is hope for an orderly process of change. A sudden breakdown could throw the USA into a catastrophic explosion of the seething resentment that lies simmering in the underbelly, volatile and explosive.

Sinclair Lewis would recognise it. I hope the USA comes out of this ok, peacefully, and will never elect a populist opportunist with no political expertise ever again, and if Trump achieves that, then the USA will be much safer for the current and coming generations.

I was very fond of the USA for a long time and enjoyed my trips and journeys there over three decades. I met people who were peaceful and relatively untroubled souls in many states. Now I won't even enter the country (some WP members can rejoice at that) though I hope things will resolve and it will once again become a country the world can admire, despite the issues that have been a dilemma for a long time.


Most Trump voters are not sorry.
One in eight people who voted for Trump having second thoughts - Reuters/Ipsos poll

Most Republican congressmen never liked him, but once the nomination fight was over most went along because they thought they would get their agenda passed and fear of his voters. While their agenda is in a lot of trouble they have good reasons to be deathly afraid of backlash from his voters if they try to remove him.

I do not see him resigning. His world view is one of winners and losers. If he views POW's as losers just giving up to his enemies would make him the the ultimate super duper loser. He will have to be removed by physical force even if he loses the 2020 election. He and his voters will just view it as rigged. Obviously the video of the military or Secret Service forcing him out of the White House could spell all sorts of trouble.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 05 Oct 2017, 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

naturalplastic
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05 Oct 2017, 4:01 pm

I knew you all were abuzz about Baron trump being a possible aspie. Though the only evidence you all ever presented was...that he looks bored during his dad's speeches (what boy his age doesn't get bored at political speeches?).



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05 Oct 2017, 9:14 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The old autistics have no empathy stereotype rears its ugly head.

Yeah, I DO think that's what this guy is saying----but, I DON'T think that's how the president FEELS. I feel that just like WE are always accused of having no empathy, HE'S being accused of that----and, since *I* (and others, on here) think that he's an Aspie, it's not surprising that he's gonna get accused of this, and other "bad behavior", when it's really "only" Aspie-driven behavior (as he already HAS, IMO), and not INTENDED to be bad behavior.

You ARE joking aren't you? That you think that Trump is an aspie?

If you're being serious then how did you arrive at that conclusion? (Sociopath I can see, but not aspie).

No, I'm not joking----I DO (along with others, here) think President Trump is an Aspie.

Here are some of the things that I have listed in the past, on here (some, are new, that I add as "we" go-along), that he has done, that has led me to this conclusion:


- - blurting-out of inappropriate things

- - saying things at inappropriate times

- - seemingly, truly wondering why what he said was wrong (and asking somebody what was wrong with what he said)

- - special interests / obsessions

- - hyper-focus (in constructing buildings, for instance)

- - wanting to be alone in his room in military school, instead of leading (read this, a couple of times, somewhere)

- - finding fault with everybody

- - speaking in third person

- - being extremely detailed (people have often commented on "The Art of the Deal" being extremely detailed)

- - wanting White House staff to give him charts and graphs, etc. (visual thinker, maybe)

- - the "different" thing he does with his hands / fingers when he's talking (stimming, maybe - or, just plain ol' "repetitive motor mannerisms" [DSM-IV Criteria for Asperger's Syndrome])

- - often stumbling-over / trying to find words (you can almost see his brain working or him scanning his brain, for the right word[s], and/or saying off-the-wall things to try to, IMO, force the right word[s])

- - being so easily dismissive of other people's opinions / thoughts / ideas (especially, if they don't align with his - that is in abundance, IMO, here on this site)

- - being so adamant / adamant about him being RIGHT (like I've seen so many Aspies do, on here - they wouldn't back-down, IMO, if their own MOTHER proved to them, that they were wrong; and, seemingly feeling like their opinion is the only one that counts)

- - him saying he'd love to just eat the same thing, everyday (McDonald's)

DSM-IV - Asperger's Sydrome:

IMO, he matches 2 in A, and he needs 2; in B, he matches with all 4, and he needs 1; he matches with C; we have no way of knowing-about D and E; and, I'm not doing the research needed for F.

https://iancommunity.org/cs/about_asds/about_asds_dsm_iv_criteria_for_aspergers_syndrome

I don't know that I would go so far as to label him a sociopath (remember we, on here, have balked several times at articles / blogs / whatever, that have labeled us Aspies, sociopaths)----but, I WOULD agree with those of us, on here (during the many discussions we've had), who believe he's a narcissist (and, IIRC, they both fall-under the umbrella of Personality Disorder, so it seems understandable that there might be some overlap - also, IMO [and this has also been asked many times, on this site], one can be BOTH a narcissist AND an Aspie [one can be an Aspie, and not be a narc, or vice-versa, though]).

Also, there are alot of people on here, that are very adamant about him NOT being an Aspie----and, my theory is that that could be one of 2 things: Either they don't WANT him to be an Aspie, cuz he's so abhorrent, in their opinion; OR, that ol' thing about people (in general) not liking people who are like them (that came-up recently, in a discussion, and a couple of people said "Yeah, that's true" [meaning, that they DIDN'T like people who were like them]).





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Last edited by Campin_Cat on 05 Oct 2017, 9:32 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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05 Oct 2017, 9:20 pm

My understanding is that The Art of The Deal was almost totally ghost written.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/us/p ... wartz.html