Uprooting the Fruitless Tree...

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I haven't posted on here except once many years ago, but my current situation has compelled me to seek out feedback from others who may be experiencing something similar. As an AS sufferer, I've become extremely disillusioned with the job search process and, due to an especially recent negative experience, have decided to stop applying for jobs altogether (I can expand on the event in question if need be, but don't think it's entirely necessary as of this writing). I just don't feel it's worth my time and effort as I never seem to get anywhere. Fortunately, I have investments that have been very equitable, but beyond the financial aspect, it's quite disheartening for me to see myself fail at every application attempt (or interview, in the rare case I get that far) and it has begun to seriously affect my self-worth.

The biggest problem I have with this is that there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it- I feel as though I need to give up because I wasn't meant to procure gainful employment like most NTs. I frequently get irritated when I hear how seemingly easy it is for people I know to get jobs- several of them have literally walked into stores and practically been hired on the spot just from talking to the manager, while I have to beg and plead just to have my application noticed. Worst part of it is the horrible double standards involved- the majority of the stores where I live (Toronto, Canada) are multicultural/racial, and many places have hired immigrants who can barely speak English, yet they seem to have little trouble getting employment. Regardless of whether it's PC to say this, I would think a native born Canadian with English as his first language would have an advantage here, but that's obviously not the case anymore. And, of course, autism doesn't help any. Neither does any of the supposed support I've gotten from counselors at AS workshops who justify the discrimination and prejudice I've faced by somehow dumping all of it on me... I'm a poor communicator, my resume isn't good enough, I don't know how to socialize, I'm not fast enough to keep up in the workplace, can't follow instructions, etc. All stereotypical AS trait generalizations, all untrue (at least in my case).

Now, I'm aware I do have a fairly major problem- I don't express myself non-verbally very well (facial expressions and the like) and I believe my body language and mannerisms are stilted and awkward. Many, if not most, AS sufferers have this trait but it almost never gets brought up and discussed in workshops because it's too "superficial" and "shallow" sounding to take seriously, as though admitting that that's the cause of most employers' negative perception of Aspies would be indicting the populace in a way they wouldn't appreciate, so naturally they avoid it. Unfortunately, what this means is people dismiss my claims of superficial prejudice and I end up having to listen to misinformation that won't help me improve my chances (if that's even possible to do). This is why I don't talk to AS counselors anymore.

Bottom line: it's incredibly frustrating to have to admit that, due to the way I present myself, I have essentially zero chance of getting a job, while as of this moment, some "racialized" immigrant- who may or may not even have valid documents, for all anyone knows- is probably getting another retail job that could just as easily have gone to me. Sorry for how that makes me sound, but I don't really care at this point. There's no justifiable reason for me to have to be treated like a second class citizen in my own country. How many more times does a well-educated, intelligent, perfectly capable individual need to hear that he's not qualified enough for a crappy hole-in-the-wall joint populated by incompetent teenagers and uneducated adults and run by clueless managers, then watches as another bozo who can barely communicate gets handed the position? I have every right to feel insulted by this kind of treatment and the most recent event was the last straw. Again, hate to bring race and gender into this, but it's bad enough I'm a white male in today's society. At least where I'm from, there's very few white males visible in any store anywhere, and it's not because they're all rich and don't need jobs.

To repeat, though, autism doesn't make this any easier. I bring up race because there's a major push to hire "racialized" individuals over whites as part of some cultural sensitivity movement, whether they're qualified for that particular job or not. If I sound bitter, it's because I am- at the end of the day, I'm being told by everyone that I'm lacking in job skills I know I have, while other people are getting jobs they probably don't deserve. I'd like someone to please tell me why I shouldn't be bothered by this, and maybe I won't be anymore. But, failing that, I would like to hear back from anyone who isn't too afraid to empathize and give some feedback regarding similar experiences with this issue.

*Btw, I don't mean to make it sound as though I've never had a job before- I have, but most of them were many years ago when it was actually much easier to get jobs, specifically non-specialized ones. As of now, I am seriously considering becoming self-employed by focusing on my (admittedly few) strengths. I guess I've been pursuing retail this long because it's more convenient and requires much less self-motivation, but maybe it's good that it's no longer an option.

I totally get where you're coming from. The lower level jobs are going to illegals or H2B visa holders while the higher level jobs are being taken by H1Bs, L-1s, and OPT students. And other IT jobs and even other manufacturing jobs that Aspies could be good at all are going to Mexico, China, and India. And, the ones that remain seem to:

1.) Require a lot of communication skills.
2.) Pay low


I was lucky in that, so far, I got a sort of call center help desk job, but that was only by referral from a job coach (I'd applied for the same position twice on Indeed in the past and never heard back). And the first go, since it was telephones, I couldn't quite get ready fast enough to do it in the five days of training. Luckily, the company saw that I was good at computers and gave me another chance, though this new one has only 4 days of training, now requires me to go in at 6 am instead of 8:30, and now requires me to work on a Saturday. And it only pays $9/hr (good thing I have Medicaid and live at home or I'd be in deep trouble right now.)

All in all, though, though having a Bachelors in Computer Science and two Associates degrees, if this is the best I can do, I think I'll try book writing (I am pretty good at it and did take honors English and all throughout high school and can at least use my web development skills to design my own sites and save money.) I no longer care about making a lot of money (In fact, I'm now wary of most wealthy people, as I've seen all those pro-H1B, pro-"refugee", pro-illegal, pro-Common Core CEOs making their money by exploitation, data mining, and greed.)

(Also, another thing that goes against me is "cultural fit". Being conservative, going to companies that are openly pro-gay/trans and pro-choice and pro-Democrat, being Tea Party and talking and commenting a lot online, it's easy for an employer to snoop around for my name and fire me for "not adhering to company values".)

Besides, what I've found in my research is that Common Core is now designing people as serfs for companies, only being able to pick certain career paths to meet corporate needs.

Also, I have heard the usual stuff online about useless HR, stupid online testing tools that reject qualified people, the corruption of staffing agencies, how it seems that who you know matters more than what you know, and how companies seem to be posting stuff, not to get jobs, but to get a feel for the market or to data mine job applicants.

Again, I totally understand where you are coming from.


Also, I worked with DORS and for about two-three years they had trouble getting me anything either and didn't quite understand my Aspiness. (However, it was them who helped me find my current gig, so I have to give them some credit.)


Also, another downfall of mine was that I was hoping to go into intellectual jobs (veterinarian, mathematician, computer programmer, etc) that I didn't bother to keep myself physically active, so I'd do TERRIBLE at manual labor jobs.

However, I live in a more rural area and only got one urban company to give me so much as an interview (and that itself was a formality, I think, as it lasted about 15 minutes for being about an hour and a half away (one way) (for perspective, an IT job that was closer and I had a better shot at getting took about half an hour and was only 15 minutes away.)) However, that's where most of the IT jobs are.


One of the things in my way for self-employment is that my meds, without insurance, would be about $500/each without insurance and even with insurance, would still be a lot. I'd be needing to make a lot and that's what's currently in my way of being self-employed right now. If, however, you don't have such a limitation, I would suggest that you be self-employed. You will have to work harder and more hours, but it sure beats dealing with all the BS of being employed by someone else (in most cases. My current job, so far, seems awesome.)

As for previous jobs, until the call center, the only actual job I've had was a paper route between 6th and 9th grade. (It ended right before I started 9th grade.) (And you can't even get those anymore unless you're an adult and can drive.)

BTW, as to the way I present myself, even DORS basically told me that my best chance would be if I had an "in" with the job and that the interview stage wasn't the determining factor (because of my Aspergers and ADHD).


As for not following instructions, I've noticed that too. (Some of my issues seemed to get more severe once I went away to college and I suddenly had trouble focusing on all the workload, etc. I for a while, and still do wonder, if it was because I switched from regular pills to generic. Also, I seemed to have issues following directions told me, as my mind didn't seem to process them right. I eventually looked it up and found that it was called executive disfunction and came with Aspergers.)


As for what to do about you, it's possible that you could be a sort of help desk person, not on call or whatever, but someone who could assist someone virtually (IMs and email) rather than doing phone. (Or some job where you could do something where your lack of verbal skills wouldn't get in the way.)

Thanks so much for getting back to me (and apologies for the late reply, haven't been checking this site in a while). This was a lot more detailed than I was expecting- you seem to know quite a bit more about this issue than I do, actually. Funnily enough, I also have an honours English degree (well, almost) but I'm not sure what I'm going to end up doing with it. I previously went to college for broadcasting but I didn't do much with that either. It kinda sucks that I know I'm not only qualified enough for retail/manual labor jobs but also academic ones but can't get either. My friend, a Chinese immigrant, even says I should be doing something academically- related (I help her with her English, both speaking and writing)... needless to say, she has no difficulty getting jobs left and right. I went the way of AS agencies and I doubt I'll go that route again, I just don't find it helpful. Last time, they stuck me at a reception job I didn't want nor was suited for even though there were other jobs available, just to fulfill their "quota".

What exactly are your major problematic AS traits? You mentioned executive functioning (instruction following)... I'm really not sure I have that any worse than anyone else so I doubt that's my main obstacle but who knows? You also mentioned presentation in interviews, which I'm fairly certain is my biggest issue. How does that manifest with you?

Just nervousness as far as presentation. I think I'd be better if I could "know" people, but since I have Aspergers, that seems to be an issue in and of itself as I am shy.

Executive function is a major one.


Another issue against me is, well, personal and not AS related. I intentionally try and avoid jobs where I think the risk of being abused and yelled at is high. (It's a side effect of dealing with a verbally abusive (sometimes to the point of near mentally-abusive) parent for years. I'd rather steal to survive (if it came to it) than work full time in such an environment where I'm a punching bag to be screamed at (either by customers that I can't shout back, etc, at, or a boss who trashes you all day long and nitpicks on everything you do wrong.) So I've tried my best to avoid industries that have an overabundance of that.

True, I am now working at a call center as an IT email person (I did calls earlier but wasn't verbally good enough and fast enough to make it (though they were sad about that as I was good otherwise but the company they were having me make calls for only allowed five days of training and wouldn't budge any more than that. Anyway, they gave me another shot and now I'm doing the IT email thing.)

Also, I'm kinda glad that I'm doing it for Little Passports rather than Sentry Safe. While Little Passports is pretty generous with returns, etc, I probably would have gotten in trouble for agreeing with the customers sometimes if they called and went off on a tirade against some policies with Sentry Safe.

(On the flip side, I liked the way Sentry Safe was presented (the trainee, my supervisor, had herself had a bad trainer and so went out of her way to make sure it was presented in a good way. I was able to pick up a lot of the stuff that way and I think it's in part thanks to that they noticed I was good at everything but the calling. With Little Passports, I'm sure they meant well, but their first whole day of training was mostly just showing us various aspects of how the stuff worked without us ever using it yet (I prefer to learn hands on with doing as I tend to space out when talked at with no interaction for long periods of time.) I was actually fearful for a while that I was, due to spacing out when information was presented, look like an idiot when I didn't get stuff that had been presented once or more when actually doing the tasks. While sometimes even now it's bitten me in the butt, luckily I was able to pick up things really fast once I started doing them.)

Speaking of training, that's another thing I'm finding that's wrong with the working world (at least from comments I'm finding on various forums online.) Loads of people are complaining that companies want people trained with 6 months of x, y, and z but they never want to spend more than a few days, at most, training (if at all). Then they cry "skills shortage" when they can't find enough people. Even some of the non-IT entry level stuff wanted 6 months experience with stuff.


BTW, I had applied for the company that now has hired me (twice in fact, as I couldn't quite make it the first time) at least twice on Indeed.com and NEVER heard back from them ever. It was only when my DORS helper called them and scheduled an interview that I actually got one.

Also, at least with Indeed.com, it seems that, in my experience, except for one company, actually two (though that was a contract of 6 months and at least an hour and a half from home and my own family told me not to take it despite getting an interview offer (though it was for like the very next day after they called me, which kinda smelled of desperation or something, looking back.), all the companies that offered me interview from applying on Indeed.com were LOCAL (the one exception was actually also about an hour and a half away, but was full time and not a contract. However, the interview actually seemed to be more of a formality as they didn't ask me that much specific stuff and it took less than 15 minutes (which was bad considering I went 90 minutes one way to get there!! !!).