Do Gun control proponets think that criminals obey laws?

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funeralxempire
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15 Oct 2017, 2:17 pm

leejosepho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
...when you've just been shot by a terrorist, mugger or nut job mass shooter and lay there bleeding out, whether or not you live in a dictatorship, or whether your homeland ever becomes one ceases to be a relevant concern.

Yes, by then it is definitely too late to stand up for oneself or for anyone else...


It's more that once your survival is threatened things like ideology or other abstract concerns will take a lower priority. Only when one's survival is secure do such things start to become important.

Further, if you're dying, what does the future matter? It won't involve you. :wink:


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leejosepho
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15 Oct 2017, 5:38 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Only when one's survival is secure do [things like ideology or other abstract concerns] start to become important.

No, that is when people tend to become complacent unless they have already assumed responsibility for their own security.


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Esmerelda Weatherwax
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15 Oct 2017, 6:33 pm

Goodness, is this a trick question? After all, theft, murder, and incest are generally illegal in civilized countries, despite the fact that people keep doing them.

The idea behind those prohibitions is to at least reduce the extent to which people do them, and provide social sanction for removing from our midst, temporarily or permanently, (in the case of murder and theft) those who do.

The idea behind gun control is to reduce the number of accidental deaths and murders attributable to firearms.

And we have an open-label experiment: recent imposition of gun control in Australia. Using the following search string, I find numerous publications citing a significant decrease in firearms murders there - and accidental shootings of self/others. Most dramatic: ten years without a mass shooting.

Here's the search string I used (search engine ixquick): Effect+of+gun+control+on+death+rates+in+Australia

Here's a sample result: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2704353/ - The British Medical Journal family of publications is fairly well respected.

Disclosure: I haven't read through the entire thread, but I did sparse sampling. If these points have already been made, apologies for repetition. I'm not, personally, anti-gun; I've known people in the military and in law enforcement, who needed to be armed. But I am emphatically and unapologetically anti-Adam Lanza, anti-Stephen Paddock, etc.

Further disclosure: I look at this as a public health issue even more than a legal one.


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funeralxempire
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16 Oct 2017, 7:58 pm

leejosepho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Only when one's survival is secure do [things like ideology or other abstract concerns] start to become important.

No, that is when people tend to become complacent unless they have already assumed responsibility for their own security.


You're certainly entitled to believe that. :wink:


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"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


leejosepho
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17 Oct 2017, 7:40 am

funeralxempire wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Only when one's survival is secure do [things like ideology or other abstract concerns] start to become important.

No, that is when people tend to become complacent unless they have already assumed responsibility for their own security.

You're certainly entitled to believe that. :wink:

From where or from whom else might you suggest the security had come?


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funeralxempire
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17 Oct 2017, 3:43 pm

leejosepho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Only when one's survival is secure do [things like ideology or other abstract concerns] start to become important.

No, that is when people tend to become complacent unless they have already assumed responsibility for their own security.

You're certainly entitled to believe that. :wink:

From where or from whom else might you suggest the security had come?


Either individually or through participation in a relatively secure society, or both. :roll:
Do you have anything resembling a point to get to?


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"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う